Jump to content

Stealth Classes are UnBalanced


TripleCharged

Recommended Posts

Am I the only one that feels this way? Every time I pvp, whether it be on my Gunslinger(50/50 WH/BM), or my SageDPS(not yet level 50). Stealth classes slaughter me and many other people I see. The is no good, reliable way to counter a stealth class. They can run away from a losing fight with a single button click. They can pop out of stealth and take your health down(or kill you) before their stuns are finished to the point where you are unable to combat them anymore. Even if these classes did not have stealth they would be able to stand their own in a PVP match cause they are strong enough without it, but when you add stealth to the equation they become nearly unstoppable in 1v1 fights. Many of my deaths come from some stealther sitting around waiting for me to walk by them, or singling me out as I am on my way to battle, or as I am defending a turret they come up and stealth kill me, giving me the choice of calling out to my teammates and dieing, or trying to fight them and usually lose.

I removed my vanguard because I was a bad player in poor gear when I played on him in PVP, I no longer gear him for pvp.

Edited by TripleCharged
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 209
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Ok first off, i'm not insulting you, but asking u questions.

 

Did you ever bother to consider your an easier kill? I play on my assassin alot, and i see some of the same regular names. I know who to go for first because they don't react to what i'm doing and i can just mop the floor with them. You may just be a easy target.

 

Do you do a ton of damage/healing when your left alone? If you are the pillar of a team, you will me focused more. It comes with the job.

 

Stealth classes are fine IMO. Maybe you should roll and operative and assassin to understand what they are doing to you so you can counter it accordingly. To understand ones enemy and ones self will win you many more battles than just understanding youself. (para-phrased from sun-tzu)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok first off, i'm not insulting you, but asking u questions.

 

Did you ever bother to consider your an easier kill? I play on my assassin alot, and i see some of the same regular names. I know who to go for first because they don't react to what i'm doing and i can just mop the floor with them. You may just be a easy target.

 

Do you do a ton of damage/healing when your left alone? If you are the pillar of a team, you will me focused more. It comes with the job.

 

Stealth classes are fine IMO. Maybe you should roll and operative and assassin to understand what they are doing to you so you can counter it accordingly. To understand ones enemy and ones self will win you many more battles than just understanding youself. (para-phrased from sun-tzu)

 

I am not an easy kill, i dont just simply stand there and attempt to DPS the target I was on before, I switch into, GET THE **** AWAY FROM THE *********** STEALTH CLASS mode. I usually have most of my cooldowns up to get away, and I can sometimes. But usually my health is below 50% while they are still at 100 by the time I am able to respond after the stuns break. Like I said, there is no good reliable counter to any stealth class that stuns you while they are stealthed. Even on my tank, by the time I stand up my health is too low to respond properly to the threat. And I am not going to create a stealth class because it is something I despise in every game I play. Whether it be Halo, TF2, SWTOR or any other game with a stealther in it, I hate them. I can only think of one reliable way to nerf stealth classes, Make it so while they are stealthed, their cooldowns to not come back, because all they have to do is stealth and sit in a corner, then pick out a single target, kill them and repeat. It does nothing to help the objective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I the only one that feels this way? Every time I pvp, whether it be on my VanguardTank

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/h52VqsS/defensive-measures

 

Stealth scan. Use and abuse it. It's one of the most powerful abilities in the game once you practice using it. The fact that you are a Vanguard Tank makes it so much more powerful since yours roots the targets it reveals.

 

In your case, I'd recommend rolling a stealth class to see how they work. Take note of common hiding places you use, common routes you use to flank people, and common turret-guarding spots. Understand your enemy first before you complain :p You'll see that (most) stealth classes, hybrid tankassins excluded of course, are much weaker in a straight up fight and rely on their sneakiness and burst damage to kill anyone.

 

For starters, the easiest way to start your Stealth Scanning adventures is to simply drop it on your stealth-capable enemy once their health becomes low and you think they are about to vanish. Once you've practiced sufficiently with this and understand the stealth classes better, you can have the hotkey at your fingertips and wait until they actually do vanish, and then stealth scan immediately thus rooting them in place.

Edited by Jenzali
Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.torhead.com/ability/h52VqsS/defensive-measures

 

Stealth scan. Use and abuse it. It's one of the most powerful abilities in the game once you practice using it. The fact that you are a Vanguard Tank makes it so much more powerful since yours roots the targets it reveals.

 

In your case, I'd recommend rolling a stealth class to see how they work. Take note of common hiding places you use, common routes you use to flank people, and common turret-guarding spots. Understand your enemy first before you complain :p You'll see that (most) stealth classes, hybrid tankassins excluded of course, are much weaker in a straight up fight and rely on their sneakiness and burst damage to kill anyone.

 

For starters, the easiest way to start your Stealth Scanning adventures is to simply drop it on your stealth-capable enemy once their health becomes low and you think they are about to vanish. Once you've practiced sufficiently with this and understand the stealth classes better, you can have the hotkey at your fingertips and wait until they actually do vanish, and then stealth scan immediately thus rooting them in place.

 

I hate when people point that skill out, it has its uses, but it does not seem to work. If I see someone stealth, I put the scan were they should be, and they are not there. And the cooldown on it is 20 seconds while it only lasts for 10 seconds, making an easy window for any intelligent stealther to come in and slaughter me.

This is how most of my stealth kills go(assuming i am defending a point)

Stealth Stun, boom 15% health gone, boom 15% health gone, add a stun, (CC break this one)boom 15% of health,now I can move, I am probably slowed, gone, boom 15% of health gone, I stun them, they break it, I dont have any more stuns, they hit me again and I am dead.

OR

Stealth stun, break that, stun again, boom 15% health gone, boom 15% health gone, i can move, i stun them, the break it, out of stuns, start attacking them, get them down like 10% then I am dead.

 

And for my Sage/Gunslinger. It just happens faster, even If i can stun them or slow them, they get out of it soon enough to prevent me from moving, and kill me from there.

Edited by TripleCharged
Link to comment
Share on other sites

well i dont play my VG much in PvP, and my sage is a healer, but my sniper is fine against stealth classes. If someone jumps me from stealth, I break the stealth stun, get into cover, and pop entrench (hunker down), then I use my kb, start DPSing, leg shot, continue DPSing, and theyre usually dead by the time they reach me :D both the stealth AC's are pretty squishy, so its easy to burn them down :p
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 1v1 is balanced around the stealthy starting with 100% health and you having 60%-40% of your health when you get freedom of your character back. Their sustained dps is pitiful, just don't panic and you will beat them often as not in a strait dps fight from 50%.

 

You should really be worried about them when they DON'T hit you with the 4 second stun after the 1.5 one and start matching their cds to yours. Then yes, you will spend most of the fight not able to do much to them. It won't be over fast though and you'll have plenty of time to get a friend to the off node with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

well i dont play my VG much in PvP, and my sage is a healer, but my sniper is fine against stealth classes. If someone jumps me from stealth, I break the stealth stun, get into cover, and pop entrench (hunker down), then I use my kb, start DPSing, leg shot, continue DPSing, and theyre usually dead by the time they reach me :D both the stealth AC's are pretty squishy, so its easy to burn them down :p

 

Ya hunker down is a pretty good defense against the stuns, and I have started using it more recently. But their dps is high enough that If I hunker down too close they will just DPS me faster than I can DPS them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 1v1 is balanced around the stealthy starting with 100% health and you having 60%-40% of your health when you get freedom of your character back. Their sustained dps is pitiful, just don't panic and you will beat them often as not in a strait dps fight from 50%.

 

You should really be worried about them when they DON'T hit you with the 4 second stun after the 1.5 one and start matching their cds to yours. Then yes, you will spend most of the fight not able to do much to them. It won't be over fast though and you'll have plenty of time to get a friend to the off node with you.

 

Their DPS is more than sufficient to fight with any class I have played in PVP. Assassins now can take me out in 3 hits, and operatives DPS has always been high enough to kill me faster than I can kill them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Their DPS is more than sufficient to fight with any class I have played in PVP. Assassins now can take me out in 3 hits, and operatives DPS has always been high enough to kill me faster than I can kill them.

 

Stealth dps is actually supposed to be the hard counter to snipers so that's often going to be a losing fight. As a sorc always have your bubble up even if no one is around. Stealthies could debateably be put in the soft counter category for dps sorcs, though if you have the stun bubble you can **** sealthers. As a PT Tank, your job is really to hold the off node long enough to get help more than it is to win the 1v1. You have the tools to stall for plenty long enough for your team to help if they are going to. As a side note Tank PTs are probably the least useful of the tank ACs at a competative level, you might want to respec pyro before gearing too far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stealth classes are fine, hell ops could even use a buff (god knows that last time one killed me 1v1)

 

Chances if you are getting destroyed by them you are not using all your tools correctly.

I'd say the best way to counter one is to go play one, before you make claims they are over powered and could even stand to do the same damage without the stealth you go play one and do same or more damage then a smash jug or powertech. They aren't even in the same boat for dps and mind you they may do very well 1v1 they cannot stand their own in a crowd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hate when people point that skill out, it has its uses, but it does not seem to work. If I see someone stealth, I put the scan were they should be, and they are not there. And the cooldown on it is 20 seconds while it only lasts for 10 seconds, making an easy window for any intelligent stealther to come in and slaughter me.

This is how most of my stealth kills go(assuming i am defending a point)

Stealth Stun, boom 15% health gone, boom 15% health gone, add a stun, (CC break this one)boom 15% of health,now I can move, I am probably slowed, gone, boom 15% of health gone, I stun them, they break it, I dont have any more stuns, they hit me again and I am dead.

OR

Stealth stun, break that, stun again, boom 15% health gone, boom 15% health gone, i can move, i stun them, the break it, out of stuns, start attacking them, get them down like 10% then I am dead.

 

And for my Sage/Gunslinger. It just happens faster, even If i can stun them or slow them, they get out of it soon enough to prevent me from moving, and kill me from there.

 

A textbook example of a PvPer with a defeatist attitude who will never improve. Receives valid advice, discards it without reason. Writes up angry forum post - but nowhere in this post are any questions on how to deal with their problem in question or how to play better. Everything is out of their control - they are the victim. Clearly they are playing their class to its fullest extent, because they have no need to ask questions. If they lose a battle, it's a fault of the game, not themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A textbook example of a PvPer with a defeatist attitude who will never improve. Receives valid advice, discards it without reason. Writes up angry forum post - but nowhere in this post are any questions on how to deal with their problem in question or how to play better. Everything is out of their control - they are the victim. Clearly they are playing their class to its fullest extent, because they have no need to ask questions. If they lose a battle, it's a fault of the game, not themselves.

 

Thank you for agreeing with me.

(Sacrasm^)

I Do use stealth scan whenever possible but it does not help, you can find that in the post I had. And I do not have any questions on how to deal with them because I do know how to play my class, I Can get away, but operatives have more tools to defeat me then I have tools to defend against them. You are making assumptions that I am just a poor player but you have never watched me play, If you would like I can record some of my matches and show you how Operatives and Assassins are broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the thing about stealthies and melee in general, the best ones aren't using keyboard turning at all and have all their moves or at least their best moves keybound. They're very good at getting behind you and running through you and basically never stop running.

If a stealthy is doing this and running circles aren't you and you aren't able to do the exact same thing, they're going to be a very difficult opponent. Keyboard movement is slow, super slow, and they are fast. really fast.

It pains me to say it, since they are incredibly difficult to beat on my sorc dps because I'm not that great with keybinds and I use the mouse to click most of my moves.

Another reason they can be so difficult is the fact that they can wait out til their cooldowns are done before engaging, all the while being right beside you

 

All in all, I think their burst is a bit too high and I don't think any class should be able to drop combat into stealth indefinitely. Drop their burst a bit, raise their sustained dps and get rid of their combat drop. Sneaking is cool and it's their thing but no more dropping combat to heal when someone is out playing you when you probably already got the drop on them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's the thing about stealthies and melee in general, the best ones aren't using keyboard turning at all and have all their moves or at least their best moves keybound. They're very good at getting behind you and running through you and basically never stop running.

If a stealthy is doing this and running circles aren't you and you aren't able to do the exact same thing, they're going to be a very difficult opponent. Keyboard movement is slow, super slow, and they are fast. really fast.

It pains me to say it, since they are incredibly difficult to beat on my sorc dps because I'm not that great with keybinds and I use the mouse to click most of my moves.

Another reason they can be so difficult is the fact that they can wait out til their cooldowns are done before engaging, all the while being right beside you

 

All in all, I think their burst is a bit too high and I don't think any class should be able to drop combat into stealth indefinitely. Drop their burst a bit, raise their sustained dps and get rid of their combat drop. Sneaking is cool and it's their thing but no more dropping combat to heal when someone is out playing you when you probably already got the drop on them.

 

Exactly, I have a razer Naga Epic and have pretty much every one of the abilities I use keybound, I can react fast and move around them fast but I can still usually not get away. And I agree where you say their burst should be dropped. I have had assassins knock me down, use 3 hits to kill me before I stand up. There is literally NO Defense against that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously no one here is talking about op/scoundrels. However I saw a SS the other day of a Sin doing 700k damage and 500k protection in a full VS, those two numbers SHOULD be mutually exclusive of eachother period. That my friends is the only truely unbalanced class in pvp right now.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously no one here is talking about op/scoundrels. However I saw a SS the other day of a Sin doing 700k damage and 500k protection in a full VS, those two numbers SHOULD be mutually exclusive of eachother period. That my friends is the only truely unbalanced class in pvp right now.

 

I have more issues with op/scoudrels, their burst DPS might not be as fast as assassins, but the number of stuns/crowd control skills they have is just insane. They have enough stuns to prevent me from gettting away pretty much every time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have more issues with op/scoudrels, their burst DPS might not be as fast as assassins, but the number of stuns/crowd control skills they have is just insane. They have enough stuns to prevent me from gettting away pretty much every time.

 

Ah, so there is a good operative on your server. If it makes you feel better if he/she played any class besides op dps sorc dps or merc dps he/she would be an unstopable wreckingball in every WZ. As an op though he or she just force your team to double guard the off-node and then do meh dmg at mid.

Edited by Asunasan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, so there is a good operative on your server. If it makes you feel better if he/she played any class besides op dps sorc dps or merc dps he/she would be an unstopable wreckingball in every WZ. As an op though he or she just force your team to double guard the off-node and then do meh dmg at mid.

 

It is not one operative, it is many of them. Obviously there are the bad players who do not know when to use what CC's but even some of the relatively bad ones can keep me pinned because of how many different controls they have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have more issues with op/scoudrels, their burst DPS might not be as fast as assassins, but the number of stuns/crowd control skills they have is just insane. They have enough stuns to prevent me from gettting away pretty much every time.

 

Okay, this insane number of stuns that stops you from getting away is... two. One of which lasts 1.5 seconds, the other one a whole 4 seconds. also, you're at full resolve after this and immune to CC. Just saying.

 

Now, concealment ops are just annihilating snipers, I'll give you that. But if you get killed by operatives while on your powertech, you are probably seriously outgeared.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the have what 4? 2 of which can only be used from steath and one of those is out of combat only. I really dont see the problem unless you waste your cc break on the first cc.

 

Sleep Dart (OOF 8 second mez)

Flash Bang (8 second AOE mez 1min cd)

Dirty Kick (4 second stun 30 sec cd speced)

Shoot first (1.5 second stun talented tied to stealth opener)

 

CC is all an op/scoundrel has after their initial burst since once again their sustained damage is so bad. If anything they still need a buff. It sounds like you're trying to run away after they half kill you in stunlock. Don't. You're giving them time to get the sort of bursty part of their rotation of cd. Just get up from the stun and hit them back, the fight really is balanced around you haveing 50% life while they have 100%, you'll still win as often as not unless they outplay you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Their DPS is more than sufficient to fight with any class I have played in PVP. Assassins now can take me out in 3 hits, and operatives DPS has always been high enough to kill me faster than I can kill them.

Are you serious? Concealment ops do nothing but tickle me on my vanguard tank. What lvl is our tank? How is your tank geared? What build is your tank? Same questions apply to your sage. Mine is a hybrid seer/tele. I pop the self heal immediatly after they KD me, which btw they way they are blinded at that point. I reapply bubble, slow the op, KB the op,mind crush the op. proceed to toss rocks at it untill it vanishes again. if it hits me again it's just blinded again, rinse and repeat. Sounds like you just need to adjust your tactics, do not run away from them. Running is death for certain. Both an assassin and an OP can and will catch you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have some really good and geared op/smug dps on POT5. I really find the fights with them some of the most enjoyable 1v1s I ever get in wzs. Starting off with 1/2 to 3/4 health is part of the package if you are going to try to 1v1 them. Fortunately I get to play with one of the better ones on a regular basis and have picked up the strengths/weaknesses of the class as a result.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...