Jump to content

Let us kill Koth. (some Dark side spoilers)


Brinator

Recommended Posts

Title says it all. He practically begs any DS character to kill him with lines like "Let me guess who you think this ship belongs to..." and trying to steal the Gravestone when he throws his little temper tantrum! No way a Wrath or Nox would let that slide. With the option to kill Kailyo and Jorgan on the table... PLEASE let us kill the idiot who sums up everything lame.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 95
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I can definitely see killing Koth over the whole trying to steal the gravestone thing, I am actually amazed over how forgiving Lana is over that particular note. He pretty much just stabbed the entire alliance in the back and would have essentially condemned everyone there to death had he not failed, even a not totally darkside character may take up a "you are officially too stupid to live." stance over that.

 

I have never personally had an issue with any of the characters.. but the way he pretty much dismisses my lightside warriors hatred of someone /who ate a planet!/ because he "was good to Zakuul" was an immediate red flag as far as personality quirks go.

 

Maybe Lana and I should have added "He possessed people and had them gleefully terrorize the few lucky souls that escaped and /then/ ate them." Though I kind of doubt it would have made a difference since Ziost was not Zakuul and was therefore not important. All of my lightside characters push for unity among the members of the alliance, my less than kind characters though would likely end up killing Koth the moment he suggested that the emperor was good for /anyone/ when it wasn't a part of his game.

 

You would really think that people would question why Arcann and Vaylin are so twisted when their father is supposed to be this "big good creator of paradise" figure, it certainly wasn't the justice hardliner/by-the-book cop Senyas fault, and they certainly didn't wind up that way on their own.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm surprised they let this sit as long as they have.

 

I guess it'll be chapter 16 before we are finally given the option to at least confront him about this. Making this particular point go in to season 2, would just be poor handling of the story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My assassin didn't have a problem with the comment about the ship when they repaired it. She actually thought it was kind of cute that Koth thought he owned it but she did have a problem with him trying to steal it. Regarding killing him, na I don't think is my assassin's idea of dealing with Koth. I think a little torture is more in line with him trying to steal the gravestone.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haven't done a dark side character yet; I know he goes AWOL in Chapter 10 given the right circumstances, but has he made any kind of return yet in the DS story? I'm seeing Koth's involvement as the biggest difference between the DS and LS options now (along with Jorgan/Kaliyo's future involvement...or lack thereof).
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I doubt they will let us kill him to be honest, I am sure they think he is essential to the story, and even then I was compleatly supprised that we even had a choice to kill any companions, since in the past we simply had to pick up all the comps and just live with them or ignore them as best we could
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Haven't done a dark side character yet; I know he goes AWOL in Chapter 10 given the right circumstances, but has he made any kind of return yet in the DS story? I'm seeing Koth's involvement as the biggest difference between the DS and LS options now (along with Jorgan/Kaliyo's future involvement...or lack thereof).

 

From what I remember the only time it's brought up (if he leaves) is a letter from Lana about him after he left and a scene in the following chapter with Tora saying that unlike Koth she'll stick with me but nothing about him in person I don't think, though I might have forgotten so if I have someone else remind me :p

 

If he does come back in chp 15/16 (which I think he will) I really hope our characters get to kill him. My imp main a DS sorc has been pretty lenient throughout KOTFE knowing what he requires to defeat Arcann and the Eternal Fleet, however what Koth did trying to steal the Gravestone was the last straw with him and means if my Sorc ever see's Koth again he's a dead man (deep fried Koth anyone?). That's what I would like to do but I do think as someone else mentioned Koth (like Lana to I believe) is one of the writers pets which means he's going to have a DEV shield so we can't kill him...he'll have some magic, "get out of jail free card" if/when he turns up in the last chapters. :rolleyes:

Edited by BlueShiftRecall
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since Koth had the option to leave his involvement in the story has been minimal at best. I think he may have had two lines neither of which do anything other than support what someone else has already said, so I completely meaningless.

 

It demonstrates how little the choice maters in so far as the story, and likely means anyone you could kill or get rid of will be written out of the story. So it makes sense to have you kill him, rather than lurking about. It seems if you have a choice to kill someone, take it or don't they wont be appearing much in the future so you don't lose anything by killing them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's simply no way we won't at least have the option to kill her. That's even assuming the character is forced (heh) to put her down.

 

Okay, yeah, I should be more specific: you can kill Koth in Chapter 15 or 16 if I can kill Vailyn by then, too.

She's just such a boring villain (compared to "seriously, can we at least please PRETEND not be terrorists"-bro, who's pretty cool when all is said and done!).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're going to give us an option to kill him. It's just a matter of time. It would be counter intuitive to give us the option to threaten to kill Koth, then not actually let us do that when the opportunity presents itself.

 

I know at least 2 of my characters aren't killing him. I have one romancing him and the other is more on the light side. The rest, he's on his own. It's a free for all.:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I say this every time, but even my Light V Jedi Sentinel wants to take Koth to Ziost and rub his face in what his precious Emperor did to a whole planet of people who he was supposed to care about... and if that isn't enough to convince him, then I will leave him there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I say this every time, but even my Light V Jedi Sentinel wants to take Koth to Ziost and rub his face in what his precious Emperor did to a whole planet of people who he was supposed to care about... and if that isn't enough to convince him, then I will leave him there.

 

Yep. If he doesn't get it by then, my toon that's romancing him is going to dump his sorry butt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I say this every time, but even my Light V Jedi Sentinel wants to take Koth to Ziost and rub his face in what his precious Emperor did to a whole planet of people who he was supposed to care about... and if that isn't enough to convince him, then I will leave him there.

 

This requires three things to work:

1. Vitiate's presence lingers on Ziost

2. The person who encounters Ziost is Force sensitive

3. The person who encounters Ziost has encountered both Vitiate and Valkorion and knows they're the same person

 

It wouldn't do what you think it would do. Koth isn't Force sensitive. It would prove that Ziost had been destroyed and nothing else.

 

Koth is interesting because literally all you have to convince him of Valkorion's evil is your word and your word isn't enough. Personally, I think it will be neat to see where this particular flaw of his leads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This requires three things to work:

1. Vitiate's presence lingers on Ziost

2. The person who encounters Ziost is Force sensitive

3. The person who encounters Ziost has encountered both Vitiate and Valkorion and knows they're the same person

 

It wouldn't do what you think it would do. Koth isn't Force sensitive. It would prove that Ziost had been destroyed and nothing else.

 

Koth is interesting because literally all you have to convince him of Valkorion's evil is your word and your word isn't enough. Personally, I think it will be neat to see where this particular flaw of his leads.

 

Vitiate's atrocities are well documented so it is hardly just 'our word' that he was a total *** who betrayed his last Empire and ate a damn planet (along with several other attempts to do things in the Knight story line).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vitiate's atrocities are well documented so it is hardly just 'our word' that he was a total *** who betrayed his last Empire and ate a damn planet (along with several other attempts to do things in the Knight story line).

 

This. In fact at one point when you tell him the things Valkorion has done as vitiate his response is "Well, he's always been good to us." This means he kind of does believe you but doesn't care because he's been a benevolent ruler to his people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Vitiate's atrocities are well documented so it is hardly just 'our word' that he was a total *** who betrayed his last Empire and ate a damn planet (along with several other attempts to do things in the Knight story line).

 

You'd still need to prove to someone who can't use the Force that Vitiate and Valkorion are the same person. The only point in the Outlander's favor is that two people with that much power would be strange.

 

Also, you'd need actual records of those events and not just recollections from the person who was there. The Knight doesn't have any, as the Republic government felt it was necessary to send in a strike team of Jedi and SIS agents to be certain that 'Vitiate' was dead. There are no records of Ziost, they were all destroyed along with the world. And even if there's a record of the world being destroyed, there's no record of Vitiate admitting to it or being present while it happened. Or of Vitiate or Valkorion admitting to being the same person.

 

Valkorion never denies that he's Vitiate but the only time he speaks out loud and not in the Outlander's head about that is in Chapter 1 when Koth isn't present. I don't think anyone made holorecordings of those conversations just in case they needed proof that Valkorion ate Ziost.

 

What the Outlander will eventually have is a growing number of people who will agree to what they're saying about Valkorion and Vitiate. As well, potentially, as Koth's growing trust in the Outlander. At some point, the Outlander's word may be enough for him. We'll just have to see what happens.

 

This. In fact at one point when you tell him the things Valkorion has done as vitiate his response is "Well, he's always been good to us." This means he kind of does believe you but doesn't care because he's been a benevolent ruler to his people.

 

Maybe I'm being too charitable but it seems to me that that is the only response he could give without saying that his lived experience doesn't matter or that the Outlander's lived experience doesn't matter. He could have called the Outlander a liar. Could have said that what they experienced wasn't real and that they were making things up or insane. Or, as people seem to expect him to do, he could have decided that everything he knows is a lie on the word of someone he's known for maybe two weeks. Instead he counters with his life experience. And Valkorion was good to Zakuul. Personally, I find the Utopia thing creepy but the majority of Zakuul's population wanted for nothing. All of their basic needs were met. He wasn't eating planets where the people of Zakuul could see it.

 

The people of Zakuul don't have a good reason not to trust Valkorion. He hasn't given them one the way he has with the rest of the galaxy. The best way to look at it, I suppose, is that you have more knowledge than the NPCs in Zakuul do. The story hasn't given them that information and all their decisions have to be made without it.

 

It's frustrating when you know something to be true and can't convince someone. But proof is kind of a thing. An important thing, actually, when you're trying to convince someone that something they've believed their entire life is wrong. And the story very much treats Koth like he's a real person. Being the PC doesn't give the PC divine authority with him. It's neat.

Edited by leviathanmirror
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, you'd need actual records of those events and not just recollections from the person who was there. The Knight doesn't have any, as the Republic government felt it was necessary to send in a strike team of Jedi and SIS agents to be certain that 'Vitiate' was dead. There are no records of Ziost, they were all destroyed along with the world. And even if there's a record of the world being destroyed, there's no record of Vitiate admitting to it or being present while it happened. Or of Vitiate or Valkorion admitting to being the same person.

 

I find it highly unlikely that no off world records pertaining to Ziost exist in the Republic and Empire's databases. Thats like someone saying we can't prove Hiroshima or Nagasaki existed so we can't be sure they ever even existed for America to nuke. Not having evidence that Vitiate and Valkorion are the same person is more fair but that thing with 'there being no records saying Ziost even existed or that Vitiate was there when it was destroyed' is total BS <_<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it highly unlikely that no off world records pertaining to Ziost exist in the Republic and Empire's databases. Thats like someone saying we can't prove Hiroshima or Nagasaki existed so we can't be sure they ever even existed for America to nuke. Not having evidence that Vitiate and Valkorion are the same person is more fair but that thing with 'there being no records saying Ziost even existed or that Vitiate was there when it was destroyed' is total BS <_<

 

There may be have something that proves he was there, if anyone bothered recording in all the chaos and his possessed drones spoke to more people than the PC and their people and there was some admission of identity, and not just threats or taunts. There would be reports to that affect to the Republic and Imperial governments, of course, and anyone in the Republic or Empire would accept it as truth because they're already familiar with Vitiate.

 

Um, where did I say that you couldn't prove Ziost existed? It totally still exists. But finding solid proof of Vitiate eating it is harder since most of that proof would have been destroyed when he ate the planet. If there's a recording of what the PC/player sees at the end, where the planet is destroyed in seconds, then there's proof of destruction. But Vitiate wasn't giving an evil monologue at the time. He was just eating him some planet. Connecting Vitiate to the destruction of the planet without relying heavily on word of mouth is a bit harder than proving the planet was destroyed.

 

And really, this is all beside the point. Even if someone did catch Vitiate giving an evil monologue on tape and there are records of it in every library in the galaxy, there's still no proof that Vitiate and Valkorion are the same person. As far as we know, the only time anything remotely like that happens is when Valkorion doesn't deny it in Chapter 1. And it's not even an admission. He just doesn't deny it. And for a non-Force sensitive there's nothing. Even the PCs who can't use the Force had to rely on Marr to tell them that Vitiate and Valkorion were the same person.

 

Basically, the idea that taking Koth to Ziost would prove anything relies entirely on him somehow knowing for certain that Vitiate and Valkorion are the same person without him having the benefit of Force sensitivity to feel it for himself or Valkorion in his head talking about how Ziost changed everything. Koth has neither of these things.

 

At best, you can prove that Vitiate ate Ziost and that Vitiate and Valkorion are of similar degrees of power. And the second is a bit iffy, since we have no idea how much power Valk displayed in Zakuul. The best evidence that we know for certain exists is that his kids are powerful.

 

At worst, you can't even prove that Vitiate ate Ziost because Vitiate is a spirit without a body and physical evidence implicating a ghost remaining after the world was devoured is probably hard to come by.

Edited by leviathanmirror
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find it highly unlikely that no off world records pertaining to Ziost exist in the Republic and Empire's databases. Thats like someone saying we can't prove Hiroshima or Nagasaki existed so we can't be sure they ever even existed for America to nuke. Not having evidence that Vitiate and Valkorion are the same person is more fair but that thing with 'there being no records saying Ziost even existed or that Vitiate was there when it was destroyed' is total BS <_<

 

But unlike Hiroshima or Nagasaki, there's no physical evidence of what destroyed Ziost. He was a spirit who used other beings as his bodies. For someone not Force sensitive, they could say that some kind of mental plague afflicted those who suddenly went insane. It'd be hard to explain the sudden combustion of every being, plant, and animal on the planet...but there's still no proof Valkorian did that...let alone that he is Vitiate. Even in front of his son, daughter, and servants in Chapter 1, he never admits to his identity...he says things like "If you truly know who I am" or some such, but never flat-out says so. So, like, there's no proof other than Lana and the Outlander say "Yeah, we know it's him" (Lana through Force-sense, the Outlander because Valkorian admitted it in his dream in Chapter 2).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My inquisitor has shown tolerance above and beyond. Even jorgan is still alive despite his disobedience.

Koth though is getting a lightsaber through his face. UNLESS he does something major league to make ammends for his treachery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...