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The Hero of Tython and the Jedi Council (spoilers ahead)


Townowi

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One thing that bugs me after I played the Knight story into 6.0 is that the Hero of Tython was, assuming he was a Loyalist, given a seat on the Jedi Council only in 6.0, while the Consular was given such at the end of the vanilla story. I'm not sure the JK would be given a Jedi Council seat after the Meridian Complex arc ends if he was a saboteur.

 

Why wasn't he given a Council seat at the end of Yavin, or at the end of Ilum? One would think the Hero of Tython is the main public figure of the Order aftet Ilum, or Yavin, ends...

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There is no jedi council in 6.0 so he is not given an place probably will when there will be one which it seems he will create. But being famous and powerful does not mean you are good for the jedi council. Councilors have to do an lot of administrative stuff and will take time from the hero of tython from doing field work where is the best at among the jedi.

That is what I thought the reason was but at the end if shadow of revan he is made the battlemaster of the order which is an position that trains jedi in lightsaber combat so that takes time from field activities.

So I guess the reason was the consular blocked him because he was jealous of the hero of tython. First it took the opened place then he blocked future accessibility to the council so consular will not be outshine.

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Let's not forget the Order is much more depleted at the end of 6.0 than at the end of vanilla, or even at the end of Yavin.

 

There is no jedi council in 6.0 so he is not given an place probably will when there will be one which it seems he will create. But being famous and powerful does not mean you are good for the jedi council. Councilors have to do an lot of administrative stuff and will take time from the hero of tython from doing field work where is the best at among the jedi.

 

That is what I thought the reason was but at the end if shadow of revan he is made the battlemaster of the order which is an position that trains jedi in lightsaber combat so that takes time from field activities.

 

You may as well be asking about how the Consular juggles the field duties required of post-vanilla stories and a Council seat; the same would apply to the Hero of Tython as a Councillor in 6.1 and beyond.

 

Other Councillors, in vanilla, attended meetings by holocomm at times, so that we know at least some of them were doing field duties also.

 

So I guess the reason was the consular blocked him because he was jealous of the hero of tython. First it took the opened place then he blocked future accessibility to the council so consular will not be outshine.

 

Jealousy on the Inquisitor's part would probably explain why the Warrior didn't join the Dark Council at the end of vanilla.

 

Given how many of the Consular's known plot holes require a specific alignment to come into play (almost all of the alignment-dependent plot holes become apparent if you choose dark options), I have serious reservations about a Consular being jealous of another high-profile Jedi of similar power pre-KotFE.

Edited by Townowi
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Let's see... a Jedi who is calm, collected, a proven diplomat, healer and historian (and just a little bit boring, that seems to be a quality for the council)

 

vs.

 

A Jedi who is really good at sticking lightsabers into people.

 

 

I think the positions they ended up with (councilor and battlemaster) are entirely appropriate

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Don't forget the the Jedi Knight for awhile was under the influence of the emperor and it was said she/he had done some things that might have been the reason at the end of Chapter 3 they were not offered a seat. It could have been that the council was not convinced after all that the Jedi Knight should be on the council at that point in time. Edited by casirabit
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Don't forget the the Jedi Knight for awhile was under the influence of the emperor and it was said she/he had done some things that might have been the reason at the end of Chapter 3 they were not offered a seat. It could have been that the council was not convinced after all that the Jedi Knight should be on the council at that point in time.

 

I really want to know what he/she had done. I mean even orgus says I think in SOR that the jk did alot of damage and has alot to make up for ( can't exactly remember what he said as its been years since I played the JK story)

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Jedi look at more then *** kicking prowess when it comes to determining who is a good fit for a council seat. Just because you are amazing at destroying the enemies of the order doesn't mean you are going to be someone who is good at running said order.
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  • 3 weeks later...
Let's see... a Jedi who is calm, collected, a proven diplomat, healer and historian (and just a little bit boring, that seems to be a quality for the council)

 

vs.

 

A Jedi who is really good at sticking lightsabers into people.

 

The Hero of Tython had opportunities to do stuff other than sticking lightsabers into people, beasts or machines. While the Hero feels more "living-weapon" than the Consular, the Hero had some opportunity to exert leadership (namely, on Corellia). True, these opportunities are different in nature, but that's not to say that the JK had no opportunity to display non-martial abilities as relevant for leadership positions.

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The Hero of Tython had opportunities to do stuff other than sticking lightsabers into people, beasts or machines. While the Hero feels more "living-weapon" than the Consular, the Hero had some opportunity to exert leadership (namely, on Corellia). True, these opportunities are different in nature, but that's not to say that the JK had no opportunity to display non-martial abilities as relevant for leadership positions.

 

Except their main leadership accomplishment on Corellia was still martial in nature, leading a group of assorted fighters from the front line

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Except their main leadership accomplishment on Corellia was still martial in nature, leading a group of assorted fighters from the front line

What do you think the Consular did? The alliance he created was because the consular put himself on the front line for the alliance members and on Corellia he did fought on the front lines with said alliance. The only difference between the 2 was that the consular managed to act as an diplomat more and was not brainwashed and his actions did not save the jedi order and the galaxy or did anything on that scale. I wonder if he was chosen on the jedi council because his feats where not so big compared to the jedi knight and his word carried less weight as he did not do bigger things then others on the council.

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What do you think the Consular did? The alliance he created was because the consular put himself on the front line for the alliance members and on Corellia he did fought on the front lines with said alliance. The only difference between the 2 was that the consular managed to act as an diplomat more and was not brainwashed and his actions did not save the jedi order and the galaxy or did anything on that scale. I wonder if he was chosen on the jedi council because his feats where not so big compared to the jedi knight and his word carried less weight as he did not do bigger things then others on the council.

 

The consular saved the jedi order at the end of chapter 1, the entire order would have succumbed to the plague if he hadn't dealt with the source. That's why he's the "Barsen'thor", aka "Warden of the order" he protected the order in a way no other jedi could.

 

And his actions within the rift alliance prevented the republic from falling apart. He saved the republic, and one could argue, by extention the galaxy.

 

He was proven to be a successful diplomat and general, saving both the order and republic. There should be no surprise at all why he got a seat in the council.

 

And as a sidenote, the knight being the battlemaster is far more fitting than being a council member. He is more qualified for field work, while due to the nature of a consular, he would eventually retire to a more passive, administrative position.

 

 

I don't mean to downplay the importance of the knight's actions, It's just that many people downplay the consular's.

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This reminds me of Anakin Skywalker and his desire to become a council member. Anakin Skywalker was the poster boy of the Jedi order during the clone wars. To the public and most of the order he was everything a Jedi knight and hero was supposed to be: Young, powerfull, smart, brave, kind and handsome. Only few took notice of the danger he represented (Yoda, Mace Windu and to some degree Obi Wan). Since he wasn't just brave, he was also hot headed and reckless. He was kind indeed, but also ruthless towards his enemies. And since Anakin knew how important he was for the order and the republic he craved their veneration.

The reasoning why the Jedi knight should be given a seat in the council is exactly the same. He/she is powerfull, heroic, brave, charismatic and whateer the player wants him/her to be in addition (handsome for example). But the knights' involvement with the Sith emperor is indeed troubling, even if it is not necessrily his/her fault. In addition the Jedi knight was in a constant frontline situation since the arrival on Tython. This is even part of the bonus quest on Rishi, where the knight is tasked to finaly do something else than just fight, fight, fight. The difference between the Jedi knight and the Sith warrior is mostly their allegiance, not so much their role. They are both killers. And while this is enough to be a Sith warrior, it is not enough to be a Jedi (or dark council member). To put it simple: The Jedi knight didn't have the chance yet to prove that he/she is more than a weapon until he/she lead the alliance against Zakuul. A job requiring as much military prowess as diplomatic skills. Tje Jedi defeated the emperor once and for all, rescued the galaxy, overcame his/her ultimate nemesis and proved to be more than just a weapon => Council access granted.

 

The Sith warrior is a different piece of work. As Emperors Wrath he/she is indeed superior to the dark council and depending on the line choosen after killing Baras the player can even point that out (the council even bows before the Wrath). This changes when the emperor turns against the empire and the original title of Wrath essentially seizes to exist. Darth Marr however makes good use of the empires most powerfull weapon, grants the warrior a new (symbolic) title and sends the warrior out to kill his traiterous master. The title of "Empires wrath" is a title of respect, acknowledging the warriors achievements and that he/she is beyond the pitty politics within the Sith empire. Essentially the warrior is turned into the empires mascot.

Acina / Vovrawn later offers the former political influence and number 2 rank as well if the warrior bends the knee (something i just can not do anymore, my warrior bends the knee to noone).

 

As far as i know SWTORs Jedi knight / Sith warrior story was originally part of the planned KOTOR 3 story until it got scraped for SWTOR. To some degree you can see the warrior as the Jedi knight under the emperors control if you want. So yeah, the knight probably killed a lot of Jedi while under the emperors control and the emperor was quite proud of his new toy.

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