Solo queue does not fix pvp...Solo queue wont make you loose less...solo queue is unfair for those who like to team up and dont want longer queues(which will be a result of seperate queues)...solo queue wont " keep subs" and avoid people leaving...

poeple need to understand something....

the pvp comunity ISNT the majority in mmos...so the "solo queue" beggers is FAR from being a number of concern if all decided to leave(people that ONLY pvp...) which wont ever happen...

no one was still able to tell me WHY are my reasons to NOT get solo queue less LESS valuable then yours.

1-randoms ruin my wzs due to the immense lack of pvp skill/knowledge

2-solo queue being seperate will make premade queues be extremely long

3-I pay the same as you, i dont want longer queues...

(and i could go on into this being a social game etc...but ahh well...sigh)

I've been all for matchmaking I was just saying that maybe there will be more premades with 1.6. BTW you shouldn't be so sure that you aren't one of the mediocres relying on gear and composition.

my premades/guild dont acept people with no pvp credencials(from other games since there are none in this one)

and i have them..so ye, i doubt its gear and composition.Thats what "solos" dont understand...most of the time they dont loose to gear and composition..they loose because of everything else they lack.

Exactly Leon. It is not a question of laziness of puggers are the mediocres of premades even but one of money. If it stays the way it is most casuals do say F you to pvp.

I agree, every MMO i have played, Pvp has been my past time in this game. I have made lots of friends and love playing in the guilds my friends are in. "I am not anti social" i love doing guild functions and doing group activities. I do concider myself a casual, I do enjoy getting the best PVP gear in the game and i love the road to getting geared, it gives me goals and a sense of accomplishment.

But <== the one thing that discourages me is pre made groups getting pited against pug groups, most of any MMO community are not pro's that spend 12 hours + playing they are casuals, casuals do not like going into a WZ and being "RE-ROLLED over and over and over again by the same premade.

What mystifies me is this game is supposed to be a modern AAA MMO, BUT <=== it has no cross server que system in place for pvp. We need the diversity of other players to pvp against, if there was a cross server que then you could seperate the premades directly to the ranked wz's and allow the new lvl 50's to get the gear they want / need to do ranked if they choose to do so.

BW what you have now is a very fustrating experiance that turns off those that would normaly stay to going to another MMO. Please instill cross server ques and seperate the premades from the solo ques.

Solo queue does not fix pvp...Solo queue wont make you loose less...solo queue is unfair for those who like to team up and dont want longer queues(which will be a result of seperate queues)...solo queue wont " keep subs" and avoid people leaving...

 

 

poeple need to understand something....

 

 

the pvp comunity ISNT the majority in mmos...so the "solo queue" beggers is FAR from being a number of concern if all decided to leave(people that ONLY pvp...) which wont ever happen...

 

 

 

 

no one was still able to tell me WHY are my reasons to NOT get solo queue less LESS valuable then yours.

 

1-randoms ruin my wzs due to the immense lack of pvp skill/knowledge

2-solo queue being seperate will make premade queues be extremely long

3-I pay the same as you, i dont want longer queues...

 

(and i could go on into this being a social game etc...but ahh well...sigh)

You hate solo queuers beyond belief and would rather field a 8-man ops in normal warzones because the other 4 PUGs are usually idiots. But you would hate the idea of the solo queuers having their own queue even though they constantly ruin your PvP experience? You are basically saying that you and your guild are so bad that the only way you would win a warzone is if you play mini ranked in normal warzones against pure PUGs. I don't even see how that can be considered fun unless you are psychopath or something.

You hate solo queuers beyond belief and would rather field a 8-man ops in normal warzones because the other 4 PUGs are usually idiots. But you would hate the idea of the solo queuers having their own queue even though they constantly ruin your PvP experience? You are basically saying that you and your guild are so bad that the only way you would win a warzone is if you play mini ranked in normal warzones against pure PUGs. I don't even see how that can be considered fun unless you are psychopath or something.

no. but he does contradict himself. he hates solo queres and doesn't want them in his guild or his ops. but he wants them to continue to queue in the same pool as his grps so that his queue time remains short. except when the queue pops, he doesn't like it because he's playing with (or against! omg!) solo queres.

I don't know what server he plays on. an oceanic one, I take it? iunno. so I can't speak for his server. but pops on my server are very fast 20/24 hours, with multiple matches at any given moment. there's a plenty large enough pool of players for solo vs. solo. and a separate grp Q (of which solos could still Q). so the argument about queue times is a myth. I'm absolutely positive of that about Jedi Covenant (North America). again, I can't say that about other servers, but I really do laugh out loud when I hear that argument and then think of my own (PvE) server.

You hate solo queuers beyond belief and would rather field a 8-man ops in normal warzones because the other 4 PUGs are usually idiots. But you would hate the idea of the solo queuers having their own queue even though they constantly ruin your PvP experience? You are basically saying that you and your guild are so bad that the only way you would win a warzone is if you play mini ranked in normal warzones against pure PUGs. I don't even see how that can be considered fun unless you are psychopath or something.

no...wrong

i dont mind going agsidnt other premades...actualy i guet frustrated when the other team is extremely bad, it ruins the pvp exp for me when im going agaisnt aguy that backpadles half the map for example..theres no competition there.

i would play rated if the quues werent bad...

i jsut dont want bad queues in normal wzs, couldnt care less if i go agaisnt pugs or premades...thisn is, separate queue will make it the "premade" queue as bad as rated...and then i will be forced to solo queue with random terribad people...

i jsut dont want bad queues in normal wzs, couldnt care less if i go agaisnt pugs or premades...thisn is, separate queue will make it the "premade" queue as bad as rated...and then i will be forced to solo queue with random terribad people...

So it seems everyone knows what actually is killing PvP then. BW needs to do something quick and implement proper match making before no one is ever going to bother queuing for PvP. I guess the wealthy could donate warzone passes to F2P players to keep the queues going in the future as a band-aid solution lol.

My point felipe was that with 1.6 the guilds that require x gear to be in their premade will have a larger pool and therefore there MAY be more premades (ftp'rs and others) and then the solo q might have a chance. In other posts/threads I've made it very apparent that I don't think split q would currently work without cross server. I'm a supporter of a simple matchmaking system along with mixed faction teams.

Also your cred from other games makes me laugh. Who proves that? Also, as having been in that type of guild before all that really means is that you were geared in another game and pvp'd a lot. You don't have to actually be skilled. Don't try to pull that.

I've known many good pvprs and led my own pvp guilds before back when I thought mmos were supposed to be a 2nd job lol so I know that is BS.

Maybe you are skilled, idk you, but what I do know is I have never played with someone who was very skilled and enjoyed pugstomping everyday. I mean sure I've been drinking with friends and had a great time pugstomping but it def gets boring after awhile. That is why I think you would be supporting at least matchmaking if you were truly skilled.

Indeed we have well over a thousand responses, thirty thousand views and over 110 pages. That makes this the single largest thread ever ignored by the developers! Awesome job Bioware but if you continue to ignore us, then at least don't lie to us that you have a team that reads forum posts.

 

If you think this thread will just disappear, then you clearly have 0 idea of just how bad the state of PvP is. The thread will stay here but people from your game will keep disappearing instead! So yeah, keep bleeding yourselves to death, lose all the subs and destroy the most expensive game ever developed with:

 

A. Developer negligence (you are unaware of the issues with the current state of PvP)

B. Developer ignorance (you are aware of the issues with the current state of PvP but you just flat out don't care)

C. Developer incompetence (you are both aware of and care about the current state of PvP but cannot do anything about it for whatever reason)

D. All of the above?

 

Keep alienating your player base, we all know how beneficial it is for any MMO game! Keep up the good work!

=P Just thought I'd throw this out there.

Apparently they've read -some- of it, as I got a nice friendly warning for using an example of a friend becoming a prostitute (in amuch more graphic and negative sense). =P Maybe it was just what got reported (to which I say whomever reports such stuff just needs to grow up), but Good Job BW. Fix things like some mature themes but ignore the most important theme... >.< ya know, the 100+ page debate over "System Fine"/"Need Matchmaking"/"Need Split queue's."

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On a side note, I'm glad to see many of whom I had pegged to be "Split Queue" advocates now turning to the "Matchmaking" advocate side. We may differ on the responsibilities of the individual, but atleast we can come to some logical argreements over the system.

=P Just thought I'd throw this out there.

 

Apparently they've read -some- of it, as I got a nice friendly warning for using an example of a friend becoming a prostitute (in amuch more graphic and negative sense). =P Maybe it was just what got reported (to which I say whomever reports such stuff just needs to grow up), but Good Job BW. Fix things like some mature themes but ignore the most important theme... >.< ya know, the 100+ page debate over "System Fine"/"Need Matchmaking"/"Need Split queue's."

luls (I lul'd but this is just to meet the requisite word limit for a new post)

"""""i jsut dont want bad queues in normal wzs, couldnt care less if i go agaisnt pugs or premades...thisn is, separate queue will make it the "premade" queue as bad as rated...and then i will be forced to solo queue with random terribad people... """"""

Sometimes you do more harm to your cause by speaking up. I think this is one of those cases. You admit that group pvp unranked will be dead and I agree. Do you know why? Look in the mirror.

They really need some sort of openworld pvp spot or advertise outlaw's den more and no that silly mission at the pvp terminal doesnt count. If it were possilbe they should set up some kinda tutorial...no idea how that would work tbh ,but somthing needs to be done to help new players L2P. I have seen my fair share of *omg wth happened moments*and it comes down to two things that I noticed the most in warzones with pugs. 1.most of the time that happens when im going up against a premade. 2. Because the players really don't understand thier class outside of a pve setting. (or they got them of ebay:rolleyes:)

Bioware needs to have somthing that teachs them players how to play...Ik that sounds crazy but its starwars and alot of people know the name starwars so this game will have a great deal of people that prob never even played an mmo before let alone a computer game.

make it so ranked teams cant que for normals while in que for ranked

I think the gear fix coming in 1.6 will help alot of this issue

Where are all these guilds from Guild Summit 1.2? Almost all these guilds gone.

Where are solo casual players since 1.2? Plenty of them still in game.

Bioware still dont have a clue who is their target auduience in the game. Its quite poor their game developers work.

Where are all these guilds from Guild Summit 1.2? Almost all these guilds gone.

 

Where are solo casual players since 1.2? Plenty of them still in game.

 

Bioware still dont have a clue who is their target auduience in the game. Its quite poor their game developers work.

Please provide accurate and measured data if trying to make such a claim, or it's little more than hearsay. It's quit possible many guilds/premaders are still here, just as it's very possible many of the od casuals left already. There is no collection of data or metrics we as subscribers have access to that could justify this claim.

=P and Bioware gets to decide it's target audience, it just might be failing at targetting them. Other to point out your claim has no actual factual (or logical) backing, I have no other reason for making this post.

Where are all these guilds from Guild Summit 1.2? Almost all these guilds gone.

 

Where are solo casual players since 1.2? Plenty of them still in game.

 

Bioware still dont have a clue who is their target auduience in the game. Its quite poor their game developers work.

I used to know 4 or 5 Rep pure PvP guilds around that time. Now I know only one.

I used to know at least a dozen Imperial pure PvP guilds around 1.2. I still see 3 or 4 of them around but most premades I run into are PvE guilds who are also very good at PvP.

As for the solo queuers, on the Republic's side in an average PuG group I almost always recognize at least 5 or 6 people. As an Imperial, I usually recognize 2 or 3 people each match.

Some of the best players I've ever seen in my life left after 1.2. They were Imperials, almost all of them. Some really great Republic PvP players left during the summer break and I have not seen them since. I don't know why they left but something drove them away. Something to think about.

While we still have many talented and skilled PvP players, the overwhelming majority of the ones I know (and obviously I only know a limited number of people) are hardcore raiders who pass time between operations by playing loads of PvP.

make it so ranked teams cant que for normals while in que for ranked

 

I think the gear fix coming in 1.6 will help alot of this issue

You realize that would cuase them to give up on a rated que poping much sooner than they currently do which would mean less total rared matches which means more rated capable players in the regular wzs?

Oh and I'd just like to debunk the whole "we have a 100+ page thread so clearly this is a huge issue for SWTOR and deserves a dev comment." The same people arguing back and forth makes a thread longer without doing anything to prove that more people actually care about the issue.

And finally, less cries for mediocraty please. Rise up to the level of the existing competition, don't ask for the rules to change so that you can be king of your own battlefield.

Oh and I'd just like to debunk the whole "we have a 100+ page thread so clearly this is a huge issue for SWTOR and deserves a dev comment." The same people arguing back and forth makes a thread longer without doing anything to prove that more people actually care about the issue.

 

And finally, less cries for mediocraty please. Rise up to the level of the existing competition, don't ask for the rules to change so that you can be king of your own battlefield.

Oh the irony. Please rise up to the challenge to overcome your mediocrity and fix your horrible grammar and spelling. On a serious note, not all posts may be constructive nor for a split queue system, but the overwhelming majority agree the system is not fine as is and are for the following in any combination and or order:

-Cross Realm Function

-Adequate and more robust Matchmaking System

-Split queues for Premades and Pugs.

All three of which are pure gold for PvP and all three of which we honestly need as they compound each other and make for a solid system which fixes many if not all problems, putting PvP in an overall much more attractive, balanced and functioning state. We as a community need to be pushing for all three and not just a single one. Alone none of these will fix PvP, instead it will become a slightly less annoying but still dysfunctional system. We need all three, no less, stop arguing and start working together to push for a much more robust, balanced, thriving and competitive PvP system for all.

-Cross Realm Function

-Adequate and more robust Matchmaking System

Just those two should do it. With enough population, Matchmaking would act as a split queue (ie, if its set to sort premades or pug,) while still offering the benefit of filling for partial premades and backfilling for all.

Other than that, you are right. Although I would love for more people to stand up and take responsibility to become more competitive, Cross realm pvp and matchmaking are needed to be less discourage for those whom aren't quite up to par and/or are still learning.

Just those two should do it. With enough population, Matchmaking would act as a split queue (ie, if its set to sort premades or pug,) while still offering the benefit of filling for partial premades and backfilling for all.

 

Other than that, you are right. Although I would love for more people to stand up and take responsibility to become more competitive, Cross realm pvp and matchmaking are needed to be less discourage for those whom aren't quite up to par and/or are still learning.

No, quit being stubborn and narrow minded. Proper matchmaking would make it less likely, but not impossible for Pug Vs Premade to happen, it won't alleviate the issue. You don't seem to understand the situation. All it takes is 1 horribly one sided, terribly frustrating game to repel players away, permanently. Split queues are crucial and undeniably necessary for long term success and prosperity of PvP, without it we will lose more and more casual and/or new players that have a horrible first time or common experience in PvP. With Cross Realm, population and queue times would not be an issue. There would be absolutely no reason to not implement 2 separate queues. Your pretense of longer queue times dissipates as the Cross Realm population would be massive. The only benefit to keeping merged queues at that point would be to aggravate the vast majority of your player base with the occasional and possibly common mismatched and unfair match.

Just those two should do it. With enough population, Matchmaking would act as a split queue (ie, if its set to sort premades or pug,) while still offering the benefit of filling for partial premades and backfilling for all.

 

Other than that, you are right. Although I would love for more people to stand up and take responsibility to become more competitive, Cross realm pvp and matchmaking are needed to be less discourage for those whom aren't quite up to par and/or are still learning.

Back filling in it of itself is rather dysfunctional the way it is now but I won't argue that topic. Back filling a premade game with pugs should only be an option after the game has initially been formed, ideally matching Premade Combination A Vs Premade Combination B, using pugs to fill in the limited, talking anywhere from 1-4 spots maximum, for either side, again leaving this as a last resort if other grouped players in any combination cannot be found to fill in the gaps. Back filling these games when in progress should be done sparsely and only when the game is not an obvious victim of the "Jump Ship" syndrome; these type of games need not be backfilled and left to the Wz shutdown sequence to run it's course. Nothing worse than wasting a player's time when they are thrown into a game where 2 or more players decided to leave because it appeared to be a losing match. A steeper but reasonable penalty also needs to be implemented to discourage "jumping ship." Better yet an incentive to play the Wz to the end, despite it being a loss but all the more fruitful to push for a win or as close to a win as possible. A linear system as we have now, heavily encourages winning but offers very little to complete the Wz otherwise and has no penalty for abusing the leave Warzone option.

No, quit being stubborn and narrow minded. Proper matchmaking would make it less likely, but not impossible for Pug Vs Premade to happen, it won't alleviate the issue. You don't seem to understand the situation. All it takes is 1 horribly one sided, terribly frustrating game to repel players away, permanently. Split queues are crucial and undeniably necessary for long term success and prosperity of PvP, without it we will lose more and more casual and/or new players that have a horrible first time or common experience in PvP. With Cross Realm, population and queue times would not be an issue. There would be absolutely no reason to not implement 2 separate queues. Your pretense of longer queue times dissipates as the Cross Realm population would be massive. The only benefit to keeping merged queues at that point would be to aggravate the vast majority of your player base with the occasional and possibly common mismatched and unfair match.

I'd like to see your psychological studies on the matter, in following the scientific process to the letter, that 1 match is enough to make enough subscribers quit. Unil then, it is not undeniable.

Split queue's have several issues that a matchmaking system doesn't have. Backfilling, filling for partial premades, the highest potential queue times, highest potential players unable to play, highest allowance for mediocrity, discourages community building... etc... Even if you think you can discredit the queue times issue, you still have atleast 4 other logistical and moral issues.

Matchmaking allows for backfilling and filling of partial premades, and since you say queue times aren't an issue with cross server, than they won't be with matchmaking. Once in a blue moon will there be a "mismatched and unfair match" by the system design.

And if one more person calls me narrowed minded because I don't agree with them, I'm probably going to laugh myself to death. I don't know what you've experience in your life, but I can tell you I've dealt with actual real life issues that require an open mind and a sense of empathy. Not feeling bad for people who refuse to be social is nothing compared to those.

No, quit being stubborn and narrow minded. Proper matchmaking would make it less likely, but not impossible for Pug Vs Premade to happen, it won't alleviate the issue. You don't seem to understand the situation. All it takes is 1 horribly one sided, terribly frustrating game to repel players away, permanently. Split queues are crucial and undeniably necessary for long term success and prosperity of PvP, without it we will lose more and more casual and/or new players that have a horrible first time or common experience in PvP. With Cross Realm, population and queue times would not be an issue. There would be absolutely no reason to not implement 2 separate queues. Your pretense of longer queue times dissipates as the Cross Realm population would be massive. The only benefit to keeping merged queues at that point would be to aggravate the vast majority of your player base with the occasional and possibly common mismatched and unfair match.

My concern, outside of the queue time problem which cross servers would alleviate, is partial pre-mades and back filling for when someone DCs. A comprehensive matchmaking system is already admitted to be needed, and part of that could easily include a modifier if you're in a group. The real problem are the fully optimized premades of people who would be doing ranked if they could. They're the ones that steam roll people. The premades of friends in average gear aren't the problem.

Should the system try to put premades against premades? Absolutely. Should it hold up a 3 man premade because there aren't enough premades of the right numbers composition to get them a spot? That seems silly. Plus it adds a complexity to the coding problem.

First two are absolutely necessary. If premades are still crushing PuGs at that point we can revisit the issue.