The sub cost before the cartel market was $15/month. The sub cost post cartel market is $15 and you get 500 coins per month. Those coins are free. Secondly, I downloaded a free security app. That's 100 coins I get a month for $0. I also get 100 coins for recommending a friend. My cost is $0. Your assertion that it wasn't worth $15 is completely irrelevant to the fact that that was the cost. The cost hasn't changed.

 

You second point is merely speculation and FUD. Let's discuss what has actually happened and what has been announced. In the time since free to play new content has been added that cost nothing. Even with the paid expansion coming up they are still adding an achievement system that is free to all. If at some point in the future they add actual content in the cartel market then let's reopen the discussion. As it stands, this is a cosmetic feature and those features are largely reserved for the cartel market.

 

The pay to rep argument is equally silly. It's a rep for buying cartel packs. It has no other reason for it existing. If they added cartel items that gave you rep with the other factions that are based around actual gameplay systems, like Voss faction rep, then it would be "pay to rep". This rep is a reward for people who buy packs, either from buying coins, using their free coins or buying them with credits from the GTN. If feel sorry for people who see a little bar on their legacy page and feel an overwhelming urge to fill it and are disappointed with the method that is required to fill it. They are fixing this by moving that rep to a separate page so people don't have to look at it and feel they aren't complete.

 

Lastly, what has been revealed is not a simple barber. In your example of WoW they only provide the option to change your hair. Anything more extensive, which is what this is, cost $15 with no possibility of doing it aside from spending real cash. In this case I will have 2 options to get this appearance change without spending any additional cash.

Well said.

I have an important question... How do you expect many players to bother with barbershop when 90% of robes they wear are having a perma hood up that completely removes the hair and covers most of the head? =]

While this is a fair point, it seems that Bioware has finally come to the realization that it's the small things which make games great. Sure, the game as a whole still has to be stable and functioning, but sometimes a nice small QoL feature can make a whole lot of difference. This also wasn't random. It has been requested by many players.

But yes, you are right in that not every player will find this feature useful. That's OK. The more of these QoL features are added to the game, the more players will find something in their SWTOR experience improved.

It's just a first step.

Hi,

I'm totally agree with this there should be no Cartel coin charge for such a basic feature as ''barber shop'', and this feature should be in TOR in the first place, TOR is incredible game but all this marketing scenes just burier this game community, ''WE NEED TO STRIKE AGAINST IT!''...

The sub cost before the cartel market was $15/month. The sub cost post cartel market is $15 and you get 500 coins per month. Those coins are free. Secondly, I downloaded a free security app. That's 100 coins I get a month for $0. I also get 100 coins for recommending a friend. My cost is $0. Your assertion that it wasn't worth $15 is completely irrelevant to the fact that that was the cost. The cost hasn't changed.

 

Spin.

Pre-CM: Everything newly released in the game was free for subscribers.

Post-CM: Everything newly released in the game costs CM points. The "stipend" doesn't come close to paying for all of it, let alone a majority of it.

So... No, the cost has not technically gone up, however what you get for the price you pay has gone down, drastically.

For those of you new to the game, the whole reason why we even have a F2P model is (according to EA) that the majority of the 75-90% of original subscribers who quit within 3 months of launch thought the game wasn't worth a $15/month subscription. To solve this problem, they have reduced the value of the subscription and/or raised the price of the game, depending on how you look at it.

Spin.

 

Pre-CM: Everything newly released in the game was free for subscribers.

 

Post-CM: Everything newly released in the game costs CM points. The "stipend" doesn't come close to paying for all of it, let alone a majority of it.

 

So... No, the cost has not technically gone up, however what you get for the price you pay has gone down, drastically.

 

For those of you new to the game, the whole reason why we even have a F2P model is (according to EA) that the majority of the 75-90% of original subscribers who quit within 3 months of launch thought the game wasn't worth a $15/month subscription. To solve this problem, they have reduced the value of the subscription and/or raised the price of the game, depending on how you look at it.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. There's plenty of new content for the game that has nothing whatsoever to do with the CM.

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. There's plenty of new content for the game that has nothing whatsoever to do with the CM.

"Everything" may be inaccurate, but "plenty" is moreso.

Game development died a few months ago, CM development is the zombie horde coming to eat your brain (and wallet).

"Everything" may be inaccurate, but "plenty" is moreso.

 

Game development died a few months ago, CM development is the zombie horde coming to eat your brain (and wallet).

I also love hyperbole and making outrageous claims with no basis in reality.

It amuses me that you pay for something you so plainly hate, considering your post history.

Game development died a few months ago, CM development is the zombie horde coming to eat your brain (and wallet).

Exaggeration to make a point I guess. Or are you being sincere? If sincere, why would you continue to play a game you have such little regard for??

The patch team, the Cartel Market Team, and the ROTHC Team are all separate teams developing concurrently different forms of content. They have said this multiple times.

I also love hyperbole and making outrageous claims with no basis in reality.

 

It amuses me that you pay for something you so plainly hate, considering your post history.

Considering your posting history, we all know you love hyperbole and making outrageous claims with no basis in reality.

I don't hate TOR. I think it's a mediocre game that should have been a great game. It's also only $15/month, which is nothing I care about enough to quit it.

I don't hate the CM either. I despise it. It is an abomination and it will kill this game in short order. That's why I don't play it.

Hi,

 

I'm totally agree with this there should be no Cartel coin charge for such a basic feature as ''barber shop'', and this feature should be in TOR in the first place, TOR is incredible game but all this marketing scenes just burier this game community, ''WE NEED TO STRIKE AGAINST IT!''...

The people who are willing to pay money (or want credits from resale) buy it for cartel coins. The people who want it but don't want to spend real money buy it off the gtn for credits. People who don't want to pay cartel coins or credits need to grow up. People who don't want the unlock at all, don't buy it.

Considering your posting history, we all know you love hyperbole and making outrageous claims with no basis in reality.

 

I don't hate TOR. I think it's a mediocre game that should have been a great game. It's also only $15/month, which is nothing I care about enough to quit it.

 

I don't hate the CM either. I despise it. It is an abomination and it will kill this game in short order. That's why I don't play it.

So, you're basically using the 'I know you are, but what am I?' defense? Spectacular.

And good. Embrace your hatred, it makes you powerful. And amusing.

I'll be buying a Hypercrate in your name later tonight.

Have you been reading this thread? Regardless of whether or not you need to buy this on the cartel market the point stands that you will still be able to buy it with in-game credits on the GTN or use your free monthly coins to get it.

 

Just like you can do with all the options... right? Oh wait thats right, theres a load of Legacy stuff you CANT buy and put on the GTN

So far they have yet to confirm that itll be a resealable item and seeing EA's greed they can just as well make it non-tradeable >_>

Just like you can do with all the options... right? Oh wait thats right, theres a load of Legacy stuff you CANT buy and put on the GTN

So far they have yet to confirm that itll be a resealable item and seeing EA's greed they can just as well make it non-tradeable >_>

Which ones?

Which ones?

HK-51, Companion stuff, Convenience stuff, Travel etc

Not tradeable on the GTN

HK-51, Companion stuff, Convenience stuff, Travel etc

Not tradeable on the GTN

While this is true, the fact is that is only legacy stuff.

If there is no way to sell this on the GTN, then I do agree that they made a mistake.

Now that we've really narrowed down what the source of our difference in opinion is, all we can do is wait and hope they didn't make a bad decision. My general experience with Bioware has been that there is some kind of logic behind what they do, even if most cannot see it. I'm not seeing much logic behind it being only purchasabe via cartel coins. Let's hope they didn't do it.

...

 

My general experience with Bioware has been that there is some kind of logic behind what they do, even if most cannot see it.

 

...

Can you explain to me (in your general experience), the logic behind offering expensive Grade 7 ship schematics (and by expensive I mean requiring a LOT of hours of grinding to get the comms necessary to buy said schematics), followed by requiring expensive materials, followed by Selling Grade 7 Ship Parts on the GTN.

How many Cybertechs, excited after reading Dulfy's article on crafting Spaceship parts, ground up (grinded?) (engaged in grinding?) the huge number of comms necessary to buy a full set of schematics the moment 1.6 dropped? Only to discover they couldn't even craft these parts at a loss?

Also, can you explain the logic behind (after an outcry), Bioware decided to make no changes whatsoever to the situation? Such changes which could possibly have included (but not limited to):

1. Lowering the cost to obtain the Grade 7 schematics.

2. Lowering the cost of the materials to make the parts.

3. Removing the Grade 7 parts from the CM completely.

4. Raising the Cartel Coin price of the Grade 7 parts.

I have a theory that would explain the "logic" behind these actions. Would you like to hear it?

An executive "suit" at EA thought they could make more money by selling the Grade 7 parts in the Cartel Market with no regard to how this might impact players that like to craft.

So, you're basically using the 'I know you are, but what am I?' defense? Spectacular.

 

And good. Embrace your hatred, it makes you powerful. And amusing.

 

I'll be buying a Hypercrate in your name later tonight.

I feel bad about you donating to the wallet-eating zombie menace in my name.

How much is your employee discount though? I'm not sure how bad I should feel.

Can you explain to me (in your general experience), the logic behind offering expensive Grade 7 ship schematics (and by expensive I mean requiring a LOT of hours of grinding to get the comms necessary to buy said schematics), followed by requiring expensive materials, followed by Selling Grade 7 Ship Parts on the GTN.

 

How many Cybertechs, excited after reading Dulfy's article on crafting Spaceship parts, ground up (grinded?) (engaged in grinding?) the huge number of comms necessary to buy a full set of schematics the moment 1.6 dropped? Only to discover they couldn't even craft these parts at a loss?

 

Also, can you explain the logic behind (after an outcry), Bioware decided to make no changes whatsoever to the situation? Such changes which could possibly have included (but not limited to):

 

1. Lowering the cost to obtain the Grade 7 schematics.

2. Lowering the cost of the materials to make the parts.

3. Removing the Grade 7 parts from the CM completely.

4. Raising the Cartel Coin price of the Grade 7 parts.

 

I have a theory that would explain the "logic" behind these actions. Would you like to hear it?

 

An executive "suit" at EA thought they could make more money by selling the Grade 7 parts in the Cartel Market with no regard to how this might impact players that like to craft.

It's the same logic that they used to respond to complaints about armor sets being too expensive by raising the price on them by 20% and making them empty shells instead of being full of purple mods.

Can you explain to me (in your general experience), the logic behind offering expensive Grade 7 ship schematics (and by expensive I mean requiring a LOT of hours of grinding to get the comms necessary to buy said schematics), followed by requiring expensive materials, followed by Selling Grade 7 Ship Parts on the GTN.

 

How many Cybertechs, excited after reading Dulfy's article on crafting Spaceship parts, ground up (grinded?) (engaged in grinding?) the huge number of comms necessary to buy a full set of schematics the moment 1.6 dropped? Only to discover they couldn't even craft these parts at a loss?

 

Also, can you explain the logic behind (after an outcry), Bioware decided to make no changes whatsoever to the situation? Such changes which could possibly have included (but not limited to):

 

1. Lowering the cost to obtain the Grade 7 schematics.

2. Lowering the cost of the materials to make the parts.

3. Removing the Grade 7 parts from the CM completely.

4. Raising the Cartel Coin price of the Grade 7 parts.

 

I have a theory that would explain the "logic" behind these actions. Would you like to hear it?

 

An executive "suit" at EA thought they could make more money by selling the Grade 7 parts in the Cartel Market with no regard to how this might impact players that like to craft.

While I did indirectly state that not every single Bioware action is entirely logical, yes I can explain the logic behind their actions in this situation.

They offered three ways of obtaining Grade 7 Spaceship gear:

• Vendors
  
• Cartel Market
  
• Crafting
  

All three of these ways are rather expensive. The vendors have very high Fleet Commendation costs, moderate Daily Commendation and Credit cost. The full set of nine items from the Cartel Market costs somewhere around 1500 Cartel Coins if I remember correctly. The schematics for crafting not only require a large amount of Fleet Commendations, but also Stabilizers to craft. Thus, all three of these methods are somewhat balanced in that they are all expensive in some way or another. Some ways, though, are less likely than others. For example, you may happen to have many, many fleet comms stashed up. The vendors are the way to go then. The crafting method is more to acknowledge the crafters than give them an amazing new market. In the case that players no longer buy these items off of the Cartel Market and sell them on the GTN, crafters are a backup plan.

That's the implied forth way of getting these items: GTN. I do believe Bioware miscalcuated the value these items would settle at on the GTN (which, if I recall correctly, was incredibly cheap). The market wizards saw a giant opportunity and the price dropped like a stone.

All four of those changes you listed would simply cause more unrest. Lowering the cost would irritate the players who were dedicated to crafting and bought the schematic first. Lowering the materials would defeat the purpose of the craftability of these items, which were more of a backup plan to the Cartel Market anyways.

Removing the Grade 7 ship gear is an absurd idea, and sadly many forumers fail to realize that all content, even if it targets a small portion of the playerbase, is better in the game than not (unless it breaks something or negatively effects the players, market, etc). Raising the Cartel Coin cost of the ship parts would also be illogical. The players who buy the gear to use will be upset that they have to pay more, and the players who buy them off the CM to resell on the GTN have already made their profits. On top of that, if the costs were increased, accusations would be thrown around of Bioware 'milking' the players.

In conclusion, contrary to popular belief, Bioware is a whole lot more logical and for-the-players than people would like to believe. I admit that this is not the case 100% of the time, such as ignoring underperforming classes for multiple months, but considering the fact that your example was specifically chosen as a counter-argument to my statement, I think I did a pretty good job

While I did indirectly state that not every single Bioware action is entirely logical, yes I can explain the logic behind their actions in this situation.

 

They offered three ways of obtaining Grade 7 Spaceship gear:

• Vendors
  
• Cartel Market
  
• Crafting
  

All three of these ways are rather expensive.

 

...

I have to stop you right there. There is a fourth way of obtaining Grade 7 spaceship parts:

4. Bought on the GTN from players who spent cash in the Cartel Market, and are flipping it for in-game credits.

These players undercut the market to less than 20% the cost of the raw materials. I know of no crafter that stayed in the Grade 7 ship parts market after this. And I know of MANY that had been looking forward to adding these to their crafting repertoire prior to this point.

Do you realize it wasn't even worth it to craft parts for friends just for the materials. The friend could sell the 4 molecs it would take to make ONE part and use the money buy ALL SIX parts off the GTN.

Some developer spent time thinking about crafting Grade 7 spaceship parts. Schematics were made and priced. Material lists were worked out. Do you get it? Somebody actually spent time thinking this was a good idea to add to the game. These schematics were rendered irrelevant 15 minutes after 1.6 dropped.

Heck, the spaceship parts didn't even have a 36-hour resale lockout. Buy 'em, list 'em, bang!

HK-51, Companion stuff, Convenience stuff, Travel etc

Not tradeable on the GTN

So....all the stuff you can buy with credits except HK which is a quest? Seems like that's exactly what you want.

So....all the stuff you can buy with credits except HK which is a quest? Seems like that's exactly what you want.

Yup, buying it with credits is exactly what I want... whats your point? o.O

Yup, buying it with credits is exactly what I want... whats your point? o.O

That the stuff that isn't also able to be purchased directly with credits is tradeable which means it will be on the GTN where you can buy it with credits making your entire complaint moot.

That the stuff that isn't also able to be purchased directly with credits is tradeable which means it will be on the GTN where you can buy it with credits making your entire complaint moot.

Wut? Ok, I cant make any sense of that

The stuff I mentioned is available for direct purchase with in-game creds but not for resale on the GTN. This is exactly how I would like this shop to be, an option between in-game creds and CC's