Ok, this is a very noobish observation, so take it as you will.

I have played all of the classes, at different levels of progression...I have two characters at 55, a sorc and an agent.

One thing I have noticed about playing my Warrior...I feel like my shoes are filled with sand. Now, I know all characters get a slowdown during combat, but obviously it's not that much of a problem with a ranged character.

But in this case, I have to build rage to be able to take down my targets. So I have two "jumps", one long range but drops out quick, one short range with a REALLY short range and nothing in between...not to mention its powered by rage.

I can manage damage just fine...rarely drop below 3/4 health, so that is good. But I have found that, even with decent gear at my level the combination of slow movement and odd distances required for my "jumps" makes for some serious slow downs during combat.

I know it's not really slower, but it feels slower.

I'm not sure something should be done. This could just be that I stink at controlling my character properly, but if I could make any adjustment, I would do the following....

1) Reduce the minimum range for Force Charge to allow it to overlap with Obliterate.

2) Remove all damage from Obliterate, but extend stun to 2 seconds. Only stuns weak or standard mobs.

3) Remove rage requirement from Obliterate and reduce cooldown to 5 seconds.

4) Obliterate crit allows you to strike up to two targets close to each other, stunning both.

I would expect the abilities that are mirrored for Knights would need the same changes. I would also point out that Obliterate stun would not work on players.

You guys know better than I do if this would be too overpowered. I think it would make combat for Warriors much more fluid and enjoyable.

Tell me what you think.

Ok, this is a very noobish observation, so take it as you will.

 

I have played all of the classes, at different levels of progression...I have two characters at 55, a sorc and an agent.

 

One thing I have noticed about playing my Warrior...I feel like my shoes are filled with sand. Now, I know all characters get a slowdown during combat, but obviously it's not that much of a problem with a ranged character.

 

But in this case, I have to build rage to be able to take down my targets. So I have two "jumps", one long range but drops out quick, one short range with a REALLY short range and nothing in between...not to mention its powered by rage.

 

I can manage damage just fine...rarely drop below 3/4 health, so that is good. But I have found that, even with decent gear at my level the combination of slow movement and odd distances required for my "jumps" makes for some serious slow downs during combat.

 

I know it's not really slower, but it feels slower.

 

I'm not sure something should be done. This could just be that I stink at controlling my character properly, but if I could make any adjustment, I would do the following....

 

1) Reduce the minimum range for Force Charge to allow it to overlap with Obliterate.

2) Remove all damage from Obliterate, but extend stun to 2 seconds. Only stuns weak or standard mobs.

3) Remove rage requirement from Obliterate and reduce cooldown to 5 seconds.

4) Obliterate crit allows you to strike up to two targets close to each other, stunning both.

 

I would expect the abilities that are mirrored for Knights would need the same changes. I would also point out that Obliterate stun would not work on players.

 

You guys know better than I do if this would be too overpowered. I think it would make combat for Warriors much more fluid and enjoyable.

 

Tell me what you think.

I don't see your point. Marauders are one of the faster classes.

Annihilation you can spec into the 0m Force Charge

Carnage you have those speed buffs

Rage you have 2 jumps

all specs got predation

what is NOT fast about that class?!

what made your agent a faster class, what made your sorc a faster class? they aren't!

play a bounty hunter then you know what slow means

Ok, this is a very noobish observation, so take it as you will.

 

I have played all of the classes, at different levels of progression...I have two characters at 55, a sorc and an agent.

 

One thing I have noticed about playing my Warrior...I feel like my shoes are filled with sand. Now, I know all characters get a slowdown during combat, but obviously it's not that much of a problem with a ranged character.

 

But in this case, I have to build rage to be able to take down my targets. So I have two "jumps", one long range but drops out quick, one short range with a REALLY short range and nothing in between...not to mention its powered by rage.

 

I can manage damage just fine...rarely drop below 3/4 health, so that is good. But I have found that, even with decent gear at my level the combination of slow movement and odd distances required for my "jumps" makes for some serious slow downs during combat.

 

I know it's not really slower, but it feels slower.

 

I'm not sure something should be done. This could just be that I stink at controlling my character properly, but if I could make any adjustment, I would do the following....

 

1) Reduce the minimum range for Force Charge to allow it to overlap with Obliterate.

2) Remove all damage from Obliterate, but extend stun to 2 seconds. Only stuns weak or standard mobs.

3) Remove rage requirement from Obliterate and reduce cooldown to 5 seconds.

4) Obliterate crit allows you to strike up to two targets close to each other, stunning both.

 

I would expect the abilities that are mirrored for Knights would need the same changes. I would also point out that Obliterate stun would not work on players.

 

You guys know better than I do if this would be too overpowered. I think it would make combat for Warriors much more fluid and enjoyable.

 

Tell me what you think.

Ok, From a level 55 Marauder's Perspective, I have played all 3 Spec's for Marauder, Rage, Anni, and Carnage.

Rage: Easy mobility, i can keep on a target like hotcakes with relitively no effort, just have to have a decent rotation and use Frenzy > Predation every now and again. the 2nd leap that deals more damage than Force Charge really helps too, and to top it off Obliderate can be used against targets in cover!

Carnage: Mobility isnt too difficult since i explicitly use Predation for my buff of choice, since Berzerk isnt quite that useful (i liked the old Carnage Berzerk) though something like a Move speed buff after leaping would be nice or something like what Veng Jugg has with the CC immunity and 20% Defence.

Anni: Somewhat less mobile, Till 2.5. 2.5 for Anni is going to be a big QoL improvement with buff durations. We can actually have decent DPS after a boss has a "you cant hit me" phase! And the Berzerk party buff is really nice too! Personaly, Anni is the best Spec for me, since i like supplementing the healers with my self heals and my free 6 heals for 2% of the entire Ops groups's HP.

One small note.

Obliterate does not stun. It IMMOBILIZES. In other words, it prevents mobs/players from moving. It does not prevent them from attacking.

Run a Bounty Hunter through a few raids then go back to your Marauder - he'll feel like lightning then. You have 2 gap closers - double what other classes get, and infinitely more than powertechs get (hint: we have none).

Erm, Powertechs get 2 Gap Closers as Tank and 1 as DPS. Harpoon IS a gap closer...

Erm, Powertechs get 2 Gap Closers as Tank and 1 as DPS. Harpoon IS a gap closer...

I think most people here refer to Raid-envoirment or PvE, upon which Harpoon will either not be able to pull or you will pull 1 foe and 2 others are still far away, or worst case annoys your team if done incorrectly. Though I personally don't find that Powertech feels too slow, Hydrolic Overrides is a nice ability if you ask me.

As for the OPs problem, I don't think it lies with the class or the spec at all. You likely either need to get more used to using Force Leap (make sure you leap towards groups and not a loner if it dies before the cooldown is done) and Obliterate is part of your damage-rotation (the immobilize and movement is just an amazing bonus) and you should always leave enough rage for it to use once between Smashes (unless Force Leap is used.) It gets easier once you get used to the class and Rotation. Don't forget to more or less dance around your foe to get nearer to your next target when your current is about to fall.

Erm, Powertechs get 2 Gap Closers as Tank and 1 as DPS. Harpoon IS a gap closer...

Actually no. Grapple/harpoon are pulls. While its nice and all, in a PvE raid environnment that thing won't allow the PT to keep up with a boss.

Now as far as OP go, this is simply the feeling you get going from ranged class to melee one. As ranged you don't have to move around. Pretty much you'll typically start a fight in a spot, and unless you slightly move to avoid a ground targeted attack, you'll most likely end that fight in that very same spot.

As Mdps, you'll have to move around more, and once your gap closer is on CD, thats on foot.

You feel as if you are moving slowly, but not any slower than any other class, even potentially faster if specced carnage.

Your tools are obliterate as rage, better charge as anni, baseline buff to speed as carnage, predation if availaible, Force Camouflage can also be used to quickly move to a ranged enemy without taking fire.

As for the 10m range, dont forget you do have abilities that have that range. Ex on anni mara, even tough its not part of a "rotation" in solo pve thrash group I will use force scream, Force Choke and crippling throw for their range component. Vicious throw also has better range when procced for carnage, or in execute range. The. At 51, Dual Saber Throw is a very powerful tool to deal with farther ranged people.

For the rest, in a pull you can do some planning. Always use your opening gap closer to a ranged mob. Melee mobs will run to you and spare you the movement. If using a tank or dps comp, sync them on another ranged. That will give you the most time attacking, limitating movement.

As for your suggestions : heck no.

Currently one issue in PvP is merc and sorc are totally unable to shake marauder/sentinel off them. Literally class has all the tools to stay glued to them, and only sniper are able to keep them at bay somewhat.

Obliterate damage also fully warrant its rage cost, and furthermore rage should be swimming in...well rage

Well, I appreciate the feedback. I am naturally aware of the abilities you have to use, and the feeling of lack of mobility still remains.

Remember...it was just my impression alone. And it very well could be simple preference, though I would say other games I have played with melee characters felt like they had more mobility.

If it's a PVP issue you can simply disable use of one of the "jumps"...and I thought sorcs had a blowback? Isn't it overload?

Like I said, you guys know more than I do. I just felt the build needed more maneuverability in the thick of battle and less damage output as a tradeoff.

And I should have clearer...I suggest a stun instead of a root. The stun would not work on players.

Well, I appreciate the feedback. I am naturally aware of the abilities you have to use, and the feeling of lack of mobility still remains.

 

Remember...it was just my impression alone. And it very well could be simple preference, though I would say other games I have played with melee characters felt like they had more mobility.

 

If it's a PVP issue you can simply disable use of one of the "jumps"...and I thought sorcs had a blowback? Isn't it overload?

 

Like I said, you guys know more than I do. I just felt the build needed more maneuverability in the thick of battle and less damage output as a tradeoff.

 

And I should have clearer...I suggest a stun instead of a root. The stun would not work on players.

They have a blow back, however obliterate breaks root which need to be specced high in the lightning tree (actually not that useful since root only last 2 sec when taking damage) and without it it doesnt exactly throw you very far.

At any rate, one knockback, one slight escape move which can be snared/rooted vs 3 movement increasing abilities, you do the math.

I can't say about others MMO, they all have their own way of handling melee, but TOR went with maybe lower base mobility than what you are used too, but more active or passive abilities in the classes to keep on target and move around.

If you dislike the feeling, well thats personnal I guess, but I'd suggest sticking to RPDS or try an operative or PT dps, since they are kinda MDPS, but with more ranged and midranged component.

PT hydrolic override may also correspond better at the kind of mobility you expect from your MDPS.

but the PT would feel real slow else. And HO is on a rather high CD and its just +50 percent as far i remember. still cool, but this skill doesnt make you feel fast as a class.

for me my bounty hunter felt slowest of all.

i had a "fast" feeling on my sith inquisitors and my sith marauder.

then operative when he got v 51, but you wont use that roll in combat so often so for me is more a travel tool.

i would say sith assassin, sith marauder, sith sorceror in this order.

but the PT would feel real slow else. And HO is on a rather high CD and its just +50 percent as far i remember. still cool, but this skill doesnt make you feel fast as a class.

 

for me my bounty hunter felt slowest of all.

 

i had a "fast" feeling on my sith inquisitors and my sith marauder.

 

then operative when he got v 51, but you wont use that roll in combat so often so for me is more a travel tool.

 

i would say sith assassin, sith marauder, sith sorceror in this order.

Override's CD is 30 sec, and has a much longer duration than force speed. Force speed cd is at best the same as charge. Thing will allow you to move around without being held by roots. As said I'm basing the suggestion on the OP's comment on what he expect from his melee character.

Override's CD is 30 sec, and has a much longer duration than force speed. Force speed cd is at best the same as charge. Thing will allow you to move around without being held by roots. As said I'm basing the suggestion on the OP's comment on what he expect from his melee character.

same OP says he feels that the marauder is slow :-)

HO is great, but the whole class is slow, all animations, everything.

when he wants to play a feeling fast class i would recommend the deception assassin

I had a similar feeling after I had played ranged classes only, and then played my first melee character.

It feels so much slowly.

I had severe problems once I did my first tries at PvP so that my character got fdefeated before he could even reach anyone ... Cannon fodder par excellence ... Force Leap was the only "gap closserr" I could use ...

That was in my lowest levels of that said melee character (a Jedi). I decided to quit pvP with that one, ad never looked back.

Playing ranged characters is much more smooth to me. I don't have to rely on "gap closers". I can shhot out into the distance. I *always* play ranged first, in *any* RPG I do play.

I think that this might be the original problem of the original poster : Melee vs. ranged.

Playing ranged characters first, and then melee characters rather strengthens this view of them being sluggish & slow instead of doing the opposite.

In my opinion, the only thing that helps is nothing but - training. In PvE, especially.

It gives at least a feeling, an impression of how such an melee character plays like.

I had a similar feeling after I had played ranged classes only, and then played my first melee character.

 

It feels so much slowly.

 

I had severe problems once I did my first tries at PvP so that my character got fdefeated before he could even reach anyone ... Cannon fodder par excellence ... Force Leap was the only "gap closserr" I could use ...

 

That was in my lowest levels of that said melee character (a Jedi). I decided to quit pvP with that one, ad never looked back.

 

Playing ranged characters is much more smooth to me. I don't have to rely on "gap closers". I can shhot out into the distance. I *always* play ranged first, in *any* RPG I do play.

 

I think that this might be the original problem of the original poster : Melee vs. ranged.

 

Playing ranged characters first, and then melee characters rather strengthens this view of them being sluggish & slow instead of doing the opposite.

 

In my opinion, the only thing that helps is nothing but - training. In PvE, especially.

It gives at least a feeling, an impression of how such an melee character plays like.

Your probably correct. I wanted to post the impressions I had now before I adjusted to the change, as it might be a "first impression" situation that could be improved.

I think I will always feel the mobility is a bit low, making the class less fun to play...especially considering the mobility I see NPC classes have and the multiple strike attacks where they flip around in the air.

I imagine I will adjust over time. It's just a shame, IMO, that the first impression for me was not a favorable one on such an iconic class.

Warriors in WoW were / are similar, but there is not as much cc in that game, and all of it is on heavy diminishing returns. 55 PvP in particular is very punishing for melee classes, and you can expect to basically jump in, do your damage in about 10 seconds, die, repeat. Still, in those 10 seconds, I can keep up with or put out more than the ranged that are hanging back.

I've gotten used to the amount of slow / cc in this game, but it is frustrating. Rage in particular, because not only do you need to get to the target you want to hit, but you need to position yourself between your target + other targets around them, who are all usually moving much more quickly than you are. Trying to balance that with actually getting off your smash with 3 stack without delaying it too long is a pain in the butt.

People critisize Rage constantly for being an "EZ MODE" spec, but in my opinion the rotation priority is pretty similar to every other rotation priority. The difference is, playing rage can sometimes feel like trying to land a jumbo jet on an aircraft carrier... that is moving at 100 MPH and randomly changing directions. I don't know, I'm sure someone can come up with a better analogy than that. What I am getting at though, is that as any melee class, you are CONSTANTLY fighting to stay in melee range of players that don't want you in melee range, and have plenty of tools to keep you out of it, while they continue to dps you.

For me, and I think a lot of warriors, that is part of what is so satisfying. I remember this one time.. GOD I wish I was recording this.. but me + 3 other warrior friends, all smash, were in a warzone together, at the start of a voidstar. We started on Defense. We all ran down the middle towards the expertise power up. Well, 5 other players all happened to be running for it as well. Every. Last. One of us. Charges in, instant smash. It was like we were synchronized swimmers. 4 glorious smashes going off from 100% min / maxed rage warriors. All 5 enemy players died. Instantly. I think if you could get the software to do it properly, coordinating 4 warriors at once with smash would be insane.

Anyway, kind of went on a tangent there. A warrior charging in is like an automatic queue for another player to root / stun/knockback / force speed away.. whatever. And then you are rooted. Or stunned. Or snared. PvP for melee vs ranged is a game of cat and mouse.. except the mouse has a gun and does a surprising amount of damage with it.

Some of this will be addressed when we can leap to snipers / operatives in cover. that will be really really nice.

Warriors in WoW were / are similar, but there is not as much cc in that game, and all of it is on heavy diminishing returns. 55 PvP in particular is very punishing for melee classes, and you can expect to basically jump in, do your damage in about 10 seconds, die, repeat. Still, in those 10 seconds, I can keep up with or put out more than the ranged that are hanging back.

 

I've gotten used to the amount of slow / cc in this game, but it is frustrating. Rage in particular, because not only do you need to get to the target you want to hit, but you need to position yourself between your target + other targets around them, who are all usually moving much more quickly than you are. Trying to balance that with actually getting off your smash with 3 stack without delaying it too long is a pain in the butt.

 

People critisize Rage constantly for being an "EZ MODE" spec, but in my opinion the rotation priority is pretty similar to every other rotation priority. The difference is, playing rage can sometimes feel like trying to land a jumbo jet on an aircraft carrier... that is moving at 100 MPH and randomly changing directions. I don't know, I'm sure someone can come up with a better analogy than that. What I am getting at though, is that as any melee class, you are CONSTANTLY fighting to stay in melee range of players that don't want you in melee range, and have plenty of tools to keep you out of it, while they continue to dps you.

 

For me, and I think a lot of warriors, that is part of what is so satisfying. I remember this one time.. GOD I wish I was recording this.. but me + 3 other warrior friends, all smash, were in a warzone together, at the start of a voidstar. We started on Defense. We all ran down the middle towards the expertise power up. Well, 5 other players all happened to be running for it as well. Every. Last. One of us. Charges in, instant smash. It was like we were synchronized swimmers. 4 glorious smashes going off from 100% min / maxed rage warriors. All 5 enemy players died. Instantly. I think if you could get the software to do it properly, coordinating 4 warriors at once with smash would be insane.

 

Anyway, kind of went on a tangent there. A warrior charging in is like an automatic queue for another player to root / stun/knockback / force speed away.. whatever. And then you are rooted. Or stunned. Or snared. PvP for melee vs ranged is a game of cat and mouse.. except the mouse has a gun and does a surprising amount of damage with it.

 

Some of this will be addressed when we can leap to snipers / operatives in cover. that will be really really nice.

An interesting read, thanks.

So do you believe changing the "leaps" as they are designed now slightly, and the other changes I suggested would help this problem or hurt it?

Nice read, however other than sniper no class can efficiently keep a rage warrior at bay, and their own snares are extremely powerful.

What aluvi describes is the high risk high reward scenario of jumping in a pack of enemies for a high damage smash. Succeeding one gives 50k damage in a perfect scenario, but obviously 4-5 people know what you are trying to do, and will do their best to counter you. I do not think this exemple is a good exemple of a class weakness, but even more its already impressive they can do that at all.

If you take it on a 1vs1 scenario, a rage marauder is very hard to stop, and even harder to shake off. 1vs1 you'll be possibly rooted by the jump, smashed then if you were knocked back, obliterate breaks those and you are back on target, which should then be heavily snared by your Force Crush. Add to that 30m snare on DST, you do have tools to both fight snares and stay on a single target, sniper being the exception. They are the current rock to warrior's scissor.

Operative cover no longer prevent jumps if I'm not mistaken.

As for the points against PT mobility, as said they lack a quick gap closer, but the less mobility feeling is offset as said by having ranged abilities limiting the ammount of movement needed sometime, and HO is a long slight speed boost, giving a feeling of not being fast like assassin, but moving around faster for longer.

Warrior and assassins move fast every 15 sec. PT has a longer less powerfull speed butf. Marauder and operatives can spend a ressource (fury and energy) for more movement.

Is there any way to provide more mobility but only in PVE? It seems to me that any mobility improvements, or at least bringing the mobility on par with NPCs would impact PVP in a negative way.

If your a Carnage Marauder Predation is a free 50% extra move speed and like 20% defence every few seconds. Ive actually started to get back into carnage because of it's mobility.

Rage has 2 Leaps and 1 of those leaps breaks roots. Woot...

Anni has 1 Leap, 6 Seconds of 50% Move speed and 50% damage reduction. Ok, that's kinda nice.

Carnage has 1 leap, 2 Roots, 10 Seconds of Raid 50% Move Speed and 20% Damage Taken Reduced. Holy cow that's really awesome!

If you feel slow as a marauder, try playing a Sniper, Snipers are slower than molasses on fly paper.

As you wrote it, its not exactly true.

If you REALLY want spec specific boost :

Rage - that one is right, 2nd leap that breaks root

Carnage - 30% extra speed on predation and 15% permanent combat speed

Annihilation - possible 20% extra speed and 2 sec extra duration on force camouflage (I however do not take that talent in PvE) no minimum distance and 3 sec shorter cooldown on charge.

What is important to know is while carnage has the possible fastest speed, its also the squishiest of the spec, and predation requires to forgo berserk.

All spec have baseline 20% speed buff predation and force camouflage, as well as the standard leap. Annihilation has a bit less issues as far as taking damage goes, but feels slowest without any active ability triggered.

And it you try to move around with a sniper you are doing it wrong, and the roll is there for quick movement out of bad zones.

As you wrote it, its not exactly true.

 

If you REALLY want spec specific boost :

 

Rage - that one is right, 2nd leap that breaks root

 

Carnage - 30% extra speed on predation and 15% permanent combat speed

 

Annihilation - possible 20% extra speed and 2 sec extra duration on force camouflage (I however do not take that talent in PvE) no minimum distance and 3 sec shorter cooldown on charge.

 

 

What is important to know is while carnage has the possible fastest speed, its also the squishiest of the spec, and predation requires to forgo berserk.

 

All spec have baseline 20% speed buff predation and force camouflage, as well as the standard leap. Annihilation has a bit less issues as far as taking damage goes, but feels slowest without any active ability triggered.

 

And it you try to move around with a sniper you are doing it wrong, and the roll is there for quick movement out of bad zones.

Carnage doesnt = Squishy... Carnage is actually probably the most tanky of the 3 specs due to sheer defences.

Frenzied Sabers, Defencive Roll, Displacement, Unbound, Brooding are all defencive/semi-defencive talents. Sure Anni has bleed crits and Rage has Shii-Cho and talents but the sheer burst + defences from talents for Carnage IMO makes Carnage least squishy.

OP, random question but you wouldn't happen to be a clicker, would you? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it can make movement much more difficult, especially on a melee class.

First, I appreciate all the feedback, and would like to point out again that it could very well be that I am playing the class wrong or just don't have the hang of it yet. Hence the noob impressions disclaimer...

I am a mix of a clicker/HK player. It depends on how comfortable I am with the build and what I am doing. Generally speaking I usually click for open world PVE play, everything else I use binds.