What do you think they are going to do?

 

I'm nervous TBH I love to play scoundrel healer mained on in 1.0 and 2.0 but then they screwed them for 3.0 so I went sage. Recently went back, played one for the better half of 4.0 and 5.0 and I think people just get salty when they look at total HPS not EHPS. Let's be honest we struggle with burst when a sage can just pull off a wandering mend but I'm cool with that. I just hope they don't screw us into oblivion like they did in 3.0.

What do you think they are going to do?

 

I'm nervous TBH I love to play scoundrel healer mained on in 1.0 and 2.0 but then they screwed them for 3.0 so I went sage. Recently went back, played one for the better half of 4.0 and 5.0 and I think people just get salty when they look at total HPS not EHPS. Let's be honest we struggle with burst when a sage can just pull off a wandering mend but I'm cool with that. I just hope they don't screw us into oblivion like they did in 3.0.

 

I play a scoundrel healer when i heal too. it's probably my third most used spec (tank guardian, vigi guardian, then heals scoundrel). Yes looking only at overall hps is silly. But it seems to be what they are focused on unfortunately. I just hope that when they screw our aoe and overall hps over they also look at burst healing (let's be honest the insta-heal on CD of stim boost is just not reliable burst). Even when there was the bug with the utility that gives 2 stacks of probes on your aggro dump (making it a heal to full on will), the class didn't feel OP. That should say something about the state of scoundrel healing. Overhealing is something that is just sort of necessary with a scoundrel as your primary method of healing is through HoTs.

I play a scoundrel healer when i heal too. it's probably my third most used spec (tank guardian, vigi guardian, then heals scoundrel). Yes looking only at overall hps is silly. But it seems to be what they are focused on unfortunately. I just hope that when they screw our aoe and overall hps over they also look at burst healing (let's be honest the insta-heal on CD of stim boost is just not reliable burst). Even when there was the bug with the utility that gives 2 stacks of probes on your aggro dump (making it a heal to full on will), the class didn't feel OP. That should say something about the state of scoundrel healing. Overhealing is something that is just sort of necessary with a scoundrel as your primary method of healing is through HoTs.

 

 

Looks like it's time to dust off the sage and get it to command rank 300 and start the long gearing process for BIS all over again

Pretty sure nothing is happening to scoundrel healing in 5.4 I think its just leth and concealement.

Looks like it's time to dust off the sage and get it to command rank 300 and start the long gearing process for BIS all over again

 

Chill and wait for the changes, this might not be a nerf.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Eloi_BG

Pretty sure nothing is happening to scoundrel healing in 5.4 I think its just leth and concealement.

 

Class balance – The following Disciplines are receiving changes (details will follow in the next few weeks):

• Lethality / Ruffian
  
• Concealment / Scrapper
  
• Medicine / Sawbones
  
• Fury / Concentration
  
• Carnage / Combat
  

 

Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9366529#edit9366529

Source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=9366529#edit9366529

 

I wish this was true but I just can't see it not being a nerf because if you look at tor community we have a 19% over the aceverage. Now that is RAW healing and people don't get that not EHPS and some boss fights we struggle when the raid is not stacked so there are a lot of variables you need to consider BUT you know people will whine because... well... numbers....

I wish this was true but I just can't see it not being a nerf because if you look at tor community we have a 19% over the aceverage. Now that is RAW healing and people don't get that not EHPS and some boss fights we struggle when the raid is not stacked so there are a lot of variables you need to consider BUT you know people will whine because... well... numbers....

 

Tbh I don't know where you get your info from. There aren't much (if at all) people whining about scoundrel/op being overpowered. I do regs/ranked PVP and every level of PVE (from random group finder vet FPs to MM ops with a set group) and scoundrels aren't overpowered in either place. They have a big strengths and weakness that they can work with decently (though in ranked it's pretty dang hard).

 

The ratings you see on TorCommunity are based on a way to find optimal gear, not to compare healers between each other. It's based on max HPS on three targets, which never happens in a "real" setting. Nor Bant nor anyone with the slightest idea of what they are talking about ever used these numbers to compare healers between each other. I am 100% sure Bioware isn't basing changes of these numbers because they are not relevant.

 

Numbers you see in warzones/arenas/FPs/operations are relevant, and here is an example of data from operations (compiled automatically from everybody that uses starparse) from the last 16 weeks (so sorcs are actually under this number since 5.3, but it's been less than 16 weeks so numbers haven't gone down enough to reflect he changes yet):

http://ixparse.com/rating/

 

Like I said, stop complaining, and wait for the changes.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=925537&highlight=seer+sorcerer

 

All 3 healers are supposed to have the same HPS, not EHPS, according to Bioware. If that's what they truly mean, it's gonna be a huge nerf because of the scoundrel/Op overheals.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=925537&highlight=seer+sorcerer

 

All 3 healers are supposed to have the same HPS, not EHPS, according to Bioware. If that's what they truly mean, it's gonna be a huge nerf because of the scoundrel/Op overheals.

 

That's true, but then some of the class changes they've done didn't exactly follow through with what they wanted to do. For instance, with the current buff to Fury, they're not even near were Bioware said they'd be in terms of dps. So I'm hoping we'll see some of that Bioware contradicting itself here too

Most likely nerfing the two AoE Heals and increasing energy cost across the board since as of now energy management is neligable.

I'm sure they will just do a flat hps nerf to some of the healing abilities even though that is the most laziest way to attempt to balance them. What they need is some of there healing to be moved around slightly from aoe to single target. Force some of their healing into gcds and cast heals away from channels and HoT and it will give ops the nerf they need without damaging the class overall.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=925537&highlight=seer+sorcerer

 

All 3 healers are supposed to have the same HPS, not EHPS, according to Bioware. If that's what they truly mean, it's gonna be a huge nerf because of the scoundrel/Op overheals.

 

I guess I didn't express myself correctly. Of course they can't balance them around EHPS, that makes no sense. EHPS depend on the fight, who takes damage, how much damage they take, what your co-healer does, etc.

 

My point is, the potential HPS that a healer can have on three targets is just a random metric Bant used to set some specific healing rotation to allow him to make comparative measurement to see the best possible stat allocation (this is of course all in a theoretical world). That 19% gap doesn't mean anything. The only useful information about healers in Bant's model is a general idea of gearing.

 

What the Devs are calling HPS, if what the op healers pull in actual fights. If you look at PVP, over healing is not counted in the numbers. If you look at Ixparse, over healing is not counted also. I am sure Bioware's metrics don't give a damn about overhealing, they are looking at how classes perform in different settings. Their balancing hasn't been great of late, but w/e, stop saying things that are false and basing yourself off numbers that are really NOT the metrics Bioware use.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Eloi_BG

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=925537&highlight=seer+sorcerer

 

All 3 healers are supposed to have the same HPS, not EHPS, according to Bioware. If that's what they truly mean, it's gonna be a huge nerf because of the scoundrel/Op overheals.

 

I expect nuke from orbit. I can only hope I'm wrong

What the Devs are calling HPS, if what the op healers pull in actual fights. If you look at PVP, over healing is not counted in the numbers. If you look at Ixparse, over healing is not counted also. I am sure Bioware's metrics don't give a damn about overhealing, they are looking at how classes perform in different settings. Their balancing hasn't been great of late, but w/e, stop saying things that are false and basing yourself off numbers that are really NOT the metrics Bioware use.

 

I think a lot of people, including myself, have no idea what metrics they are using because we have to scratch our heads a LOT after all the patches we've seen over the years.

 

I wish I shared your optimism, but in my experience, I haven't seen a lot of patches/nerfs (or buffs for that matter) that make a whole lot of sense.....

 

I'll hold my judgments and comments until all of the "balancing" is complete.....

I'm sure they will just do a flat hps nerf to some of the healing abilities even though that is the most laziest way to attempt to balance them. What they need is some of there healing to be moved around slightly from aoe to single target. Force some of their healing into gcds and cast heals away from channels and HoT and it will give ops the nerf they need without damaging the class overall.

 

I agree SO MUCH!

 

With your whole statement.

 

Sadly......

Well,

Op healing getting a solid nerf by the looks of it, roughy 5% to 10% across the board

That info from PTS, so it might change xd

Edited August 11, 2017 by GUN_GAME

Well,

Op healing getting a solid nerf by the looks of it, roughy 5% to 10% across the board

That info from PTS, so it might change xd

 

You active on the pts? Did they change the way some abilities work? Lol

You active on the pts? Did they change the way some abilities work? Lol

 

I just heard that info, i dont play on PTS

I just heard that info, i dont play on PTS

 

Can you message where you've heard it?

Can you message where you've heard it?

 

From a guy who i trust =)

Honestly there's a reason Operative healers have higher numbers compared to the other 2 healers, and that's because operatives are an AoE/HoT type healer. Raid wide damage, happens in most if not every boss encounter in swtor. Teams that have an operative healer play with this by Stacking for group heals whenever possible, because an operative will throw out amazing heals when multiple people are together. Trying to change operatives from an AoE/HoT to a more single target healer just ruins the design of this class honestly. Operatives aren't meant to heal a single target that gets hit with giant hits over and over, a merc and a sorc can deal with burst damage way better than an operative can. So the only way to make an operative more appealing is have them be the optimal AoE healers. Due to AoE damage happening in most fights operatives look like they do the most heals, which they do, but in fights that have a ton of spike damage Raptus NiM for example, they aren't exactly equipped to deal with heavy hitting attacks like force execution, and impaling thrust. A double sorc healer combo is doable (even after the nerf with competent healers), and a double merc healer combo is easily doable as well. But one thing known is the double operative heals can't work, it's literally a laughing action to bring in 2 operative healers because of the lack of burst heals that most fights require. Trying to balance operative by adding some burst just wouldn't make the class the same with their icon HoTs which is already being tossed out since the release of 5.0 and will probably tossed out even more with 5.4. If they hit an operative's AoE potential, might as well switch to merc with a 6 sec kolto missile, progressive scan that gives armor bonus to all targets healed by it, and the outright higher burst they have compared to operative. Since operatives lost their HoT from kolto infusion granted by curative agent, and will undoubtedly lose more HoT healing with this nerf. They might just end up being the "Dps mercs" of the healer classes, lacking in the original role they were made for, AoE/HoT healing.

@PrometheanDeath

 

Setting aside what Operatives healers are meant to be, the bottom line is that their biggest strength (aoe and sustained healing ) while nice is not that relevent in current content. Groups in PvE don't die due to low group healing. They die to spike damage, on tanks or whoever. Both sorc and merc have enough AoE output to properly keep the group up with little trouble.

Similar thing for PvP. Players die to high burst damage, not aoe damage or anything like that.

 

In current content, operatives biggest strength is nice but it's overkill, so ultimately "meh". Their weakness, not so "meh".

Like you said, you can double sorc or double merc whatever you want and is totally fine. Double operative ? hmm....

Honestly there's a reason Operative healers have higher numbers compared to the other 2 healers, and that's because operatives are an AoE/HoT type healer. Raid wide damage, happens in most if not every boss encounter in swtor. Teams that have an operative healer play with this by Stacking for group heals whenever possible, because an operative will throw out amazing heals when multiple people are together. Trying to change operatives from an AoE/HoT to a more single target healer just ruins the design of this class honestly. Operatives aren't meant to heal a single target that gets hit with giant hits over and over, a merc and a sorc can deal with burst damage way better than an operative can. So the only way to make an operative more appealing is have them be the optimal AoE healers. Due to AoE damage happening in most fights operatives look like they do the most heals, which they do, but in fights that have a ton of spike damage Raptus NiM for example, they aren't exactly equipped to deal with heavy hitting attacks like force execution, and impaling thrust. A double sorc healer combo is doable (even after the nerf with competent healers), and a double merc healer combo is easily doable as well. But one thing known is the double operative heals can't work, it's literally a laughing action to bring in 2 operative healers because of the lack of burst heals that most fights require. Trying to balance operative by adding some burst just wouldn't make the class the same with their icon HoTs which is already being tossed out since the release of 5.0 and will probably tossed out even more with 5.4. If they hit an operative's AoE potential, might as well switch to merc with a 6 sec kolto missile, progressive scan that gives armor bonus to all targets healed by it, and the outright higher burst they have compared to operative. Since operatives lost their HoT from kolto infusion granted by curative agent, and will undoubtedly lose more HoT healing with this nerf. They might just end up being the "Dps mercs" of the healer classes, lacking in the original role they were made for, AoE/HoT healing.

 

I don't necessarily agree that Operatives must be the dedicated AoE healer, and I'd argue having a class be the dedicated AoE healer is a pretty surefire way to create imbalances in PvP arena's. It's also certainly possible for Operatives to be strong healers if their AoE gets nerfed. They used to be really powerful in both PvE and PvP before they got nerfed with 3.0, and their AoE healing back then wash just Recuperative Nanotech and spreading probes around. I personally wouldn't mind a nerf to AoE healing if it also involves adding some burst back to Operatives.

Edited August 11, 2017 by AdjeYo

I don't necessarily agree that Operatives must be the dedicated AoE healer, and I'd argue having a class be the dedicated AoE healer is a pretty surefire way to create imbalances in PvP arena's. It's also certainly possible for Operatives to be strong healers if their AoE gets nerfed. They used to be really powerful in both PvE and PvP before they got nerfed with 3.0, and their AoE healing back then wash just Recuperative Nanotech and spreading probes around. I personally wouldn't mind a nerf to AoE healing if it also involves adding some burst back to Operatives.

 

depends on what they nerf and how. If its a blanket nerf like sorc, ops just became unviable, as currently sorc's capacity in both pvp and pve are roughly at their level, ehps+aps wise.

 

Mercs heals are probably good as well, simply need to confirm what comes from their actual heal, and what comes from their cooldowns. Roughly, you can do -1k hps to any merc's total hps in a WZ that comes from the trauma regulators and the Kolto overload.

 

They need to figure out the difference between hps and ehps, the various restriction a HoT pro-active healer faces that the other 2 dont, and then establish how much of that trade off of burst healing is worth in extra ehps.

 

 

People have said it, situation where an ops heal would be **** OP never happen in any game mode. Unless you get into a wz against 8 sorc spamming force storm on your tightly grouped team.

 

But any target that is taking sustained damage needs to be set up with 2 GCD (2 probe) before sustained healing can began for operatives right now, as Surgical Probe is balanced around the fact it will also force a dual kolto probe tick.

 

I personnaly like the way ops is right now, its different, its fun its challenging.

 

But any blanket nerf cannot happen and be balanced unless they also change the way it operates, and gives it a way to heal under pressure in pvp, has in this it is the most fragile and easy to shut down of the 3 heal spec right now.

 

Since it also has less readily availaible burst, those 2 flaw makes it the least played healer in ranked WZ, where you'll most likely face seasoned player who know how to shut you down while they burn down your team mates, or you.