The entire time ive played this game Ive thought people who play for the empire viewed them as the good guys and same thing with republic, However after reading some threads it seems most just prefer their class stories and dont actually support the Empire and view them as the good guys.

 

This is vary disappointing because I actually do prefer the Empire to the Republic and view them as the good guys, I wont state my reasons unless someone asks, but I want to know who else views the empire as the good guys?

Edited January 30, 2019 by TyeJ

I don't view any government as "the good guys," I think the abuses of the empire firmly rules them out of being anywhere near good, as a general statement, though. That said, the republic contains its share of abuse as well, the difference is usually that it's done behind closed doors though, which is why certain types of idealists can operate to its benefit.

I’d say at this point, the biggest differences between how the republic and the empire operate is whether the abuses/corruption/etc occur openly or are hidden behind closed doors...

 

Which is why my consular wants to keep her alliance, and hopefully convince the Jedi as a whole to switch to it

The entire time ive played this game Ive thought people who play for the empire viewed them as the good guys and same thing with republic, However after reading some threads it seems most just prefer their class stories and dont actually support the Empire and view them as the good guys.

 

This is vary disappointing because I actually do prefer the Empire to the Republic and view them as the good guys, I wont state my reasons unless someone asks, but I want to know who else views the empire as the good guys?

 

There is no doubt that the Empire are the Bad guys, in the story. The republic are the good guys, but they operate against that thin gray line too. Some time they work so close to that gray line they fall over it into a dark territory they cant pull them selves back from.

 

For me 8 of my toons are Imps the other 5 pub side. the 8 Imps most are force users and i enjoy playing the bad guys of bad guys. The 5 pubs, most of them force users, i love playing some as goody 2 Shoes and some walk that gray line and one walked over that line. All makes for interesting out comes in the story and their choices they make.

There is NO doubt whatsoever that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic the good guys. I'll admit that the Republic isn't perfect, I wouldn't call them exactly good, more like the lesser evil. However, if we're comparing these 2 factions. The biggest problem with the Republic is corruption and greed, while the Empire has literally legalized slavery, speciesism and basically murder. Sith can kill anyone they want as long as they're not a member of the Dark Council.

 

I personally love the Empire, I think it's super cool, evil and very intriguing, but anyone who thinks of the Empire as the good guys is just fooling themselves. They should just accept and love the Empire for what it really is.

Edited January 30, 2019 by JJKerryee

The entire time ive played this game Ive thought people who play for the empire viewed them as the good guys and same thing with republic,

 

Why would you think this? The Imperial class stories don't present the Empire as good and benevolent, in fact the 'evil' actions are often praised by your superiors.

 

If you chose to play your Imperial class story(s) as a reasonable and decent person, than the game makes it clear that you are an unusual Imperial/Sith and are working against the current system, not with it.

 

The current, endgame state of the galaxy does present a kinder/gentler Empire, but that's only in comparison with the original vanilla Empire.

I'd say the Republic (at this point in the story anyway) is probably more "good" than governments on Earth, quite frankly. Whenever Republic players encounter corruption or moral failings in the Republic, we are very often given a chance to correct it. That seems more efficient than how we deal with corruption in real life. Edited January 30, 2019 by OldVengeance

Republic = fundamentally good, but with flaws (e.g. corrupt officials).

 

Empire = fundamentally evil, but with some virtues.

 

This does not make them morally equivalent.

Edited January 30, 2019 by DarthDymond

I believe Empire did nothing wrong?

I'd say the Republic (at this point in the story anyway) is probably more "good" than governments on Earth, quite frankly. Whenever Republic players encounter corruption or moral failings in the Republic, we are very often given a chance to correct it. That seems more efficient than how we deal with corruption in real life.

 

Mostly. Did you do the mission on Ord Mantell with the bomb race? That was a great mission. Most of the times I played it, it was either to bet or run. Then once on my super LS trooper I chose to report them to Ord Mantell's Ethics Officer. I think that guy is a pretty accurate representation of the Republic.

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Ardrossan

When i play a game i often imagine myself into other NPCs' situation, or would i like to live in there if i born into X position.

 

Now thing is, that the Republic is quite free. Officially it doesn't matter where you born you can achieve great things, or live a probably poor, but peaceful life. As force-sensitive you get dragged into the jedi order at a very young age, and while your life gona be strange i couldn't call it exceptionally bad. Their soldiers are allowed to fail, and retreat, and the worst thing they get is being fired, or some boring, and bad assigment.

 

Zakuul was way too dependent on droids, and now that things ***ed up they gona have a hard time readjusting. But eventually they get back on the good old paradise on track, and with that kind of living it doesn't really matter who, or what rules. Also there is no slavery there (at least not that much as in the Empire), and it seemed that there is only top royalty, and the rest. No "chain of command" nobility. The survival of their soldiers in case of failure is up to the leader's mood though. But usually you got at least 50% chance to survive.

 

In the empire there is a birthright chain of command. If you aren't lucky and born as a non-force sensitive slave, then you are gona have some hell of a life. And majority of the empire are like that. If you are force sensitive, then you get to Korriban where you have a good chance to die during trials. And even if you survive, then Siths kill each other all the time. Just play the Sith Inquisitor's story and you see just how lucky you must be to stand a chance. Last but not least their army. In the Empire there is no such thing as "retreat", or "mission fail". Failure means execution.

 

So no. The Empire is certanily not "good guys". If you randomly born into the Empire, then great chance, that you gona have a miserable, and short life.

Edited January 31, 2019 by irrevelant

The key difference is that, while the Empire may have slaves, conform to the whims of the Sith, and are super racist, they don't try and hide any of it. They're very transparent about how they want citizens to behave, and the actual Imperial Government is pretty decent to the citizens. Most of the NPCs will comment on how the Sith are pretty annoying when they interfere, but it's heavily implied that the non-Sith running the Empire are decent, if not nice, to the population (Major Bessiker and Talos Drellik come to mind here).

 

The Jedi, on the other hand, proclaim that they're the good guys, representing freedom and democracy, yet getting anything done requires either months/years of negotiation (if you want to do things by the book), Ignore the Senate entirely (In the case of the Military), or resort to conspiring with gangs/underworlders (If you're a civilian). For a good example, the first Senator you meet turns out to be corrupt, and only because she can't do anything through proper channels. While she is trying to do the right thing, the fact that she has to break the law to do it means there's a fundamental issue with the Republic.

 

To me, while the Empire certainly can't be called the good guys, operate on a much better governmental system compared to the Republic. If the Sith didn't try and kill each other so often, then they would have crushed the Republic long ago.

There is NO doubt whatsoever that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic the good guys.

I'd be tempted to say that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic are the other bad guys. The difference is that the Republic wants to hide it, and the Empire doesn't care.

I don't understand the question, I play empire and they are the bad guys and my characters are bad guys. Unless I'm playing light side imps, which is fun and all but I don't consider them the true versions.

 

Right now I'm very confused because I'm playing a dark inquisitor and Ashara is pulling a light Jaesa on me - she seems to think I'm a good guy and that I want to reform the empire and I have no idea what she's talking about. It's especially irritating because often these conversations don't give me much option to disagree with her.

Right now I'm very confused because I'm playing a dark inquisitor and Ashara is pulling a light Jaesa on me - she seems to think I'm a good guy and that I want to reform the empire and I have no idea what she's talking about. It's especially irritating because often these conversations don't give me much option to disagree with her.

Yeah, Ashara is annoying like that. It's an interesting story for an LS Inq, but on a DS Inquisitor, it makes less than no sense that the story progresses as it does. (I first did the Inq story on a full-whack out-and-out black-hearted goggly-eyed maniac(1) of an Assassinette(2), and yes, the Ashara story didn't fit with her *at*all*.)

 

It makes me think that the full extent of Ashara's narrative evolution is another of those things that Kryptonomic has talked about, that got cut or mangled or lost in the squeeze. It would have been fascinating to be able to compare LSA and DSA in the way that we can compare LSJ and DSJ.

 

(1) To the extent that she is the only one of my characters who has done the Lord Wossname mission near the entrance to the Colossus on DK, where he asks you to poison the slaves' water supply with only just barely enough poison, so they die slowly and in maximum pain.

 

(2) Yes, of course she sliced and diced Bessiker's son. What did you think? (At least she was human, so she didn't have to hear him complain about being rescued by alien filth.)

I'd be tempted to say that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic are the other bad guys. The difference is that the Republic wants to hide it, and the Empire doesn't care.

 

After playing through all the classes, this has pretty much become my perspective. Both sides are awful in different ways. Even looking at the movies and going from the perspective of seeing things from the Rebels' side, it still boils down to both factions are a mess especially when you look at how things panned out in the Legacy EU. To each faction, they're going to see themselves as the 'good' one with the opposition being 'bad'.

(2) Yes, of course she sliced and diced Bessiker's son. What did you think? (At least she was human, so she didn't have to hear him complain about being rescued by alien filth.)

 

His complaints about being rescued by alien filth are *why* my SI made julienne fries of him. Then she killed Bessiker when he cried about it, both for his crying and his threats to withhold the collicoid serum from her.

In the empire there is a birthright chain of command. If you aren't lucky and born as a non-force sensitive slave, then you are gona have some hell of a life. And majority of the empire are like that. If you are force sensitive, then you get to Korriban where you have a good chance to die during trials. And even if you survive, then Siths kill each other all the time. Just play the Sith Inquisitor's story and you see just how lucky you must be to stand a chance. Last but not least their army. In the Empire there is no such thing as "retreat", or "mission fail". Failure means execution.

 

So no. The Empire is certanily not "good guys". If you randomly born into the Empire, then great chance, that you gona have a miserable, and short life.

 

What about Bounty Hunters?

 

So here we have guys who often have republic accents, who don't have to be Mandalorians to be accredited professionals in the Empire, and who are, in many cases, able to assume command level positions temporarily in order to achieve x result.

 

LS Smugglers are often roleplayed as Republic patriots who don't want to go through the bureaucracy of serving in the military to serve their government. I did the same thing with a DS bounty hunter who wants to serve the Empire but wants the freedom to pick assignments and go where he's needed. It works surprisingly well. It would be better if you could choose to have an imperial accent, but there's probably lots of Republic planets that got absorbed into the Empire during the first war, and newly made imperial citizens who have real patriotism to the Empire.

Zakuul was way too dependent on droids, and now that things ***ed up they gona have a hard time readjusting. But eventually they get back on the good old paradise on track, and with that kind of living it doesn't really matter who, or what rules. Also there is no slavery there (at least not that much as in the Empire), and it seemed that there is only top royalty, and the rest. No "chain of command" nobility. The survival of their soldiers in case of failure is up to the leader's mood though. But usually you got at least 50% chance to survive.

 

Hmmm, I wish Zakuul would be a starting zone so we can play and see how it would be living there... I play all the stories of the IMPS (BAD) and PUPS (GOOD) I know many take inspiration from the SW Canon characters, Like Sidius (Inquisitor), Vader (Wrath), Jedi Knight (Luke), Smuggler (Solo), Bounty Hunter (Boba), Consular (Um...Yoda? Not sure about this one) ANYWAY point is we dont have a Princess LEA story type raise in Royalty and later become the backbone of the Resistance...on less the "Outlander and his Alliance Story" counts as that...

 

It be good to see such a NEUTRAL perceptive before the chapters of the Outlander... Being adopted into Royalty like Lea and in secret built the resistance that help built into the events of the KOTET... Taken a bit of inspiration from LEA side of the story in canon...and spice it a bit with SWTOR Legends lore!

 

Returning to the original post...

 

I think like many have already stated the Sith Empire don't hide their ugly side and its a lore fact that if they where more united they crush the republic long ago...but they ARE the BAD GUYS.

 

The Republic are technically good as its supposedly have the senate that voice its people, but as such, there is much corruption, greed and personal/political agendas intertwine in the systems that will make positive changes take forever to implement. This is how Palatine was able to turn the Republic into an Empire through this type of government system...

Edited February 1, 2019 by Zehal

I'd be tempted to say that the Empire are the bad guys and the Republic are the other bad guys. The difference is that the Republic wants to hide it, and the Empire doesn't care.

 

I think this is one of the best ways to define things, the Republic certainly isn't flawless but things like Belsavis shows they have dirt and are more than willing to be dirt about it and attempt to hide it. The Empire is open about it.

What about Bounty Hunters?

 

So here we have guys who often have republic accents, who don't have to be Mandalorians to be accredited professionals in the Empire, and who are, in many cases, able to assume command level positions temporarily in order to achieve x result.

 

LS Smugglers are often roleplayed as Republic patriots who don't want to go through the bureaucracy of serving in the military to serve their government. I did the same thing with a DS bounty hunter who wants to serve the Empire but wants the freedom to pick assignments and go where he's needed. It works surprisingly well. It would be better if you could choose to have an imperial accent, but there's probably lots of Republic planets that got absorbed into the Empire during the first war, and newly made imperial citizens who have real patriotism to the Empire.

There's also the changes they would have needed to make to the dialogues, since the BH, on multiple occasions, denies being an Imperial.

That's simply a matter of choosing the right options.

 

I had another idea too - in one of the swtor books, they mention this IA, Stryver, who apparently went undercover with the Mandalorians [but was actually Star Cabal]. I thought it would be an interesting idea to make a bounty hunter who is an undercover IA or even SIS, and whose mission is to win the Great Hunt in order to get access to the Blacklist. I think it would work better as an IA for Act 3, not just the dubious idea of attempting to kill the Supreme Chancellor just to keep their cover, but also with the dissolution of Intelligence, he'd lose the ability to come back to the fold. But there are still issues - iirc Intelligence has access to the Blacklist already.

Evil is a point of view.

Well the republic is corrupt as hell, and tries to hide it, but being an honest serial killer doesn't make a serial killer innocent. Also lots of problems, that forces the republic's hand to be corrupt, or deal with criminals are made by the Empire. Last but not least being in good hand inside the empire is up to chance. If you were born randomly, then like 90% chance, that you won't live to see old age, and if the Empire were conquered the whole galaxy, then far above 50% to born slave.

 

In dictatory everything is dependent on the ruler. With a good ruler it's the best, and with a bad ruler it's worst. One of the reason it makes so much sense trying to change the Empire as a sith is, that it's possible. If the Inquisitor, or the Warrior manage to become Emperor/Empress, then (s)he can reform the Empire into a better system in weeks. Darth Malgus had a good start, and if i could do anything, then my Inquisitor would have joined him.

 

In democracy stuff can't be too good, because among the many people corruption is inevitable. But it can't be too bad either, because the senate hold each other back. Especially true, if there is no official racism. The republic will never be bad as the Empire could be, and will never be good as Zakuul was under Valkorion's rule either.

There's also the changes they would have needed to make to the dialogues, since the BH, on multiple occasions, denies being an Imperial.

That Is because those bounty hunters chose to be adopted into Mandalore the Vindicated's clan , if you don't then yeah you can be an imperial..if you do choose adoption, you are definitely NOT imperial because if he (Mandalore) chose at any time to switch sides and go to the republic ( now Shae Vizla "The Avenger") Then as a Mandalorian you are obligated to follow.