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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.08.2014 , 04:01 PM | #4691
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
As I've already told you, I can name 4 players off the top of my head who leveled up to 55 without picking an AC.

Instead, lets look at what Bioware considers "classes":
http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes
You can think of a whole FOUR players who didn't choose an AC. WoW.

Now, how many members are in your guild?

How many members OVER LEVEL 10 have their class list as:

Bounty hunter
Sith warrior
Sith inquisitor
Imperial agent

Trooper
Jedi knight
Jedi consular
Smuggler

Now how many guild members OVER LEVEL 10 have their class list as:

Poweretech
Mercenary
Sith juggernaut
Sith marauder
Sith assassin
Sith sorcerer
Sniper
Operative

Vanguard
Commando
Jedi guardian
Jedi sentinel
Jedi shadow
Jedi sage
Gunslinger
Scoundrel

I doubt that you will actually answer this challenge, but feel free to surprise me if you have the stones.

I notice that you conveniently ignore the fact that the holopage has been changed from its original form. Each individual STORY class has been changed to make it more apparent that the AC's are not simply specs. They tell you what tactical roles each AC can fill, and even go so far as to give you a hint at the potential skills available to each spec of each AC.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.08.2014 , 04:38 PM | #4692
Devs determined before release that.....

Visual progression was a required design aspect and would not change.
There would never be a market.
The appearance you choose at character creation is the appearance you will always have.
AC swapping would never happen.
Major expansions would have extensions to class story.
PVP would always be "come as you are", no assists or adjustments to encourage undergeared players.
Comms would never be shared, as this defeats the purpose of having individual planetary heroics.
Originally modded gear was the norm, but folks found it confusing, so moving forward gear will not be moddable.
Endgame combat would not revolve around a bunch of players beating on one giant mob.
This game would not be overly instanced.
Being a grey player would be just as viable as dark or light.
Worlds were going to be huge and open.
There was no foreseeable need to reduce the amount of servers.
There will never be traditional housing, your starship is your "house".


There were many many others. I would say dozens and dozens of "never will happen", "not designed that way" and "was not our intent" have been thrown out of the door. Very few if any remain.

I expect the current dev team is trying to distance themselves from the debacle that was public announcements and interviews before and shortly after release.

It is pretty silly, IMO, to stand firm on statements made from devs that were at best speculating at the time and probably LOST their jobs for that very design intent and dismiss the most recent comment from current devs in the same sweep.

The current devs have 1000 percent more reputability than the prior dev team IMO. They have actually DONE what they have said they were going to do, and have rarely misinformed or speculated incorrectly on anything (though they have not been perfect).

The original dev team was a hot mess.

Look folks....the argument about whether or not AC is a class is irrelevant IMO. What is more relevant is whether or not folks actually want something like this, and whether or not the folks that don't would be a majority.

That is the only important thing to consider here IMO.

hallucigenocide's Avatar


hallucigenocide
05.08.2014 , 04:43 PM | #4693
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Maybe he should have said the others were made during beta, BEFORE RELEASE.

The point is that the devs determined BEFORE release that class changing (AC swapping) would not be possible, and to date that remains the case. Since the release of this game, the devs have never said that class changes WOULD be implemented.

I also notice that you chose not to answer my question. I am not surprised.
your entire case against it is that the dev's have never said anything(wich they in fact have).. that's a pretty weak one to be honest. it's ok to be against it i dont really care if they implement it but if players want it i do not see a reason why they should'nt get it.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.08.2014 , 04:46 PM | #4694
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
I notice that you conveniently ignore the fact that the holopage has been changed from its original form. Each individual STORY class has been changed to make it more apparent that the AC's are not simply specs. They tell you what tactical roles each AC can fill, and even go so far as to give you a hint at the potential skills available to each spec of each AC.
That still does not change the absolute and undeniable fact that, under classes, Bioware has 8 listed. It always has 8 listed...in every official statement, every spot on the website I can find, during character creation...8 classes.

For a company that wanted folks to know that the game had more than 8 classes they sure had a funny way of showing it IMO.

Does it really matter to you if AC is or is not a class?

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.08.2014 , 05:43 PM | #4695
Quote: Originally Posted by hallucigenocide View Post
your entire case against it is that the dev's have never said anything(wich they in fact have).. that's a pretty weak one to be honest. it's ok to be against it i dont really care if they implement it but if players want it i do not see a reason why they should'nt get it.
No. It is not my case that devs have NEVER said anything. I do maintain that since release, the devs have not said anything to indicate that class changes definitely will happen, though.

I have acknowledged many times the statement from well over a year ago. That statement does NOT say that class changing WILL happen, only that it will likely happen EVENTUALLY. As has been said many times before, there is NO time frame, and there has been NOTHING further from the devs since, despite many threads including this 460+ page thread. They have NOT been silent about many other things they are working on implementing, however, no matter how much some would like to claim that the devs never speak about things they are working implementing.

I have always maintained, though, that the last word from the devs is that AC's are fundamentally DIFFERENT classes and were treated as FULL CLASSES in and of themselves. While it may be true that the devs who made those statements is no longer with BW, those statements have not been contradicted since they were made.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
05.08.2014 , 05:52 PM | #4696
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
That still does not change the absolute and undeniable fact that, under classes, Bioware has 8 listed. It always has 8 listed...in every official statement, every spot on the website I can find, during character creation...8 classes.

For a company that wanted folks to know that the game had more than 8 classes they sure had a funny way of showing it IMO.

Does it really matter to you if AC is or is not a class?
Yes, it does matter to me.

If there are only 8 classes, then why are there so many classes listed when you do a /who, or look at your guild roster? Why does a powertech's class show as POWERTECH and NOT bounty hunter when you target that character? Why is a character's class listed as SNIPER and NOT imperial agent when you are grouped with that character?

We have agreed in the past that the devs could have been much clearer about the AC's being classes and not simply sub-specs. That does not negate the fact that the last word from ANY dev is that they are fundamentally DIFFERENT classes and were treated as FULL CLASSES in and of themselves.

We have also agreed in our desires to see a more definitive statement issued by the devs regarding AC's as classes or sub-specs. Until such time that a dev elects to make that more definitive statement, all we have to go on is the last statements made by the devs.

BuriDogshin's Avatar


BuriDogshin
05.08.2014 , 06:15 PM | #4697
Isn't it a waste of time to argue over what the developers said they would or would not do? Argue for or against AC changes all you want, and maybe you can influence BW. Ask at a Cantina event, maybe you will get an answer. But trying to mind-read the current plans of the developers based on old statements they made just does not seem likely to produce a useful conclusion.

I have to wonder what the devs themselves think of all this "they said X," "they said not X" back and forth.
Going Preferred January 31, 2015.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
05.08.2014 , 06:29 PM | #4698
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
Yes, it does matter to me.
Ok, fair enough.

Quote:
If there are only 8 classes, then why are there so many classes listed when you do a /who, or look at your guild roster? Why does a powertech's class show as POWERTECH and NOT bounty hunter when you target that character? Why is a character's class listed as SNIPER and NOT imperial agent when you are grouped with that character?
I didn't say there were only 8 classes. I said that almost everywhere they list game information they only list 8 class, and usually ACs are buried, either after class selection or in a special area nested within another. Which as you can imagine irritates me because it makes a clouded issue even worse, when they could simply fix it by displaying ALL of the classes on the page, not just the core ones.

Quote:
We have agreed in the past that the devs could have been much clearer about the AC's being classes and not simply sub-specs. That does not negate the fact that the last word from ANY dev is that they are fundamentally DIFFERENT classes and were treated as FULL CLASSES in and of themselves.
And I dont intend to dispute that...only to dispute whether or not it matters with respect to AC change. I don't think it does. In fact I think little if anything that the original dev staff stated matters at all.

Quote:
We have also agreed in our desires to see a more definitive statement issued by the devs regarding AC's as classes or sub-specs. Until such time that a dev elects to make that more definitive statement, all we have to go on is the last statements made by the devs.
Yea, I really wish they would simply come out and say it. I wonder why they are not willing to say one way or another. I REALLY want to know how the current dev team views ACs.

And as you probably already know I REALLY do not want to see AC change implemented....I want the choice to mean something. That's just me, I realize it might be selfish but it is my opinion.

HelinCarnate's Avatar


HelinCarnate
05.08.2014 , 11:30 PM | #4699
470 pages of the same arguments over and over. By now you would think people would get tired.
Dear BW,
Please nerf paper and buff rock. Scissors is fine as is.
Signed, Rock.
http://www.swtor.com/r/mB5FPn obligatory referral link.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
05.09.2014 , 04:45 AM | #4700
Quote: Originally Posted by HelinCarnate View Post
470 pages of the same arguments over and over. By now you would think people would get tired.
That's what coffee and short attention spans are for

As much as I disagree with the views many if not all of the 'Say NO to AC swap' camp have, I stand 100% behind their right to have a voice on the forums and discuss their point of view. And I would hope that they extend the courtesy to allow me to expound that actually allowing AC swap would be no more detrimental than the current respecialisation that's allowed.

However, what I can't understand, and to some degree find disheartening, is the sheer number of forumites that will not weigh in on the discussion but just want everyone to shut up.

A forum should be a place for open discussion, if you have an opinion say it, if you just don't like the topic that's being discussed pass it by and let it slide down the thread pages to obscurity. But, please don't come on and try to shut down those people that do have an interest in discussing the various merits both pro and con of a feature.