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Snipers are beyond broken but it's Sins who should be the ones to nerf ? Really ?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Snipers are beyond broken but it's Sins who should be the ones to nerf ? Really ?

Jinre_the_Jedi's Avatar


Jinre_the_Jedi
11.13.2019 , 04:37 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Sniper might be third. I could understand that. But op and sin are clearly one and two (in whatever order you want). To put sniper or lightning sorc ahead of either of them is laughable at this point. Not saying they necessarily need huge nerfs or anything, but they are the best performing classes right now without question.

It's natural for op and sin mains not to want to acknowledge though, which is why I mentioned that originally. Then again, I didn't actually watch the podcast, so I might be acting a bit unfair here.

Also, it seems to me that mercs and maras are still performing very well in their own right. It's not like they got nerfed in any way. With their new stealth out every 30 seconds, maras are that much harder to focus and kill early in rounds.
I think you might be biased as well friend. Here's a pic of something that's pretty normal for Lightning Sorc in ranked atm: https://i.imgur.com/6i26gKo.jpg

Here's another one: https://i.imgur.com/nsbVxfU.jpg

They are effortlessly pulling 12-16k DPS, Thundering Blast hits like a truck with Eyrin's Haste and the DoT from Stormwatch tactical is stronger than Sin's Awakened Flame.

I'm saying this as a Sin, the burst from Sin's opener should be nerfed, that's fair. But Sorcerer is monstrous right now, they even have insanely high Damage Reduction, it's almost as much as a Marauder. Sniper, Sorc and Operative are the top 3 classes atm for sure. You can all hate on Sins all you want, but just wait until you see some of the top players on Sniper, Operative and Sorc. It's scary.

Edit: I guess my point is, for the past month since the expansion launched, people have been unable to get past the fact that after an Assassin's Opener, they do terrible sustained damage. There is so much more to a fight than the opener. And in ranked, NO ONE dies to the opener because they get peels, heals, off-guards, etc from their team mates. I will admit, in Regular Warzones, Assassins are monstrous. But in ranked, I'm sorry, it's just not the case. Just go queue up ranked and see for yourself, I can't even make this stuff up. If there's a lightning sorc in your match, just compare their performance to the Assassins. When you focus an Assassin, they drop like flies. When you focus a Lightning Sorc, they have so much DR and ways to kite and mitigate your damage, they are harder to kill then Sins. It's insane. But let's keep focusing on the first 30 seconds of the match and ignore the other 4 minutes 30 seconds.

I 100% support Sins being nerfed if it means people will open their eyes and realize that there are much better specs out there that deserve attention.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
11.13.2019 , 04:50 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
I think you might be biased as well friend. Here's a pic of something that's pretty normal for Lightning Sorc in ranked atm: https://i.imgur.com/6i26gKo.jpg

They are effortlessly pulling 12-16k DPS, Thundering Blast hits like a truck with Eyrin's Haste and the DoT from Stormwatch tactical is stronger than Sin's Awakened Flame.

I'm saying this as a Sin, the burst from Sin's opener should be nerfed, that's fair. But Sorcerer is monstrous right now, they even have insanely high Damage Reduction, it's almost as much as a Marauder. Sniper, Sorc and Operative are the top 3 classes atm for sure. You can all hate on Sins all you want, but just wait until you see some of the top players on Sniper, Operative and Sorc. It's scary.
I'm not hating on sins dude. I've said op is as good or better. Sniper and sorc are clearly good, but they are not on the level of stealth classes as yet from what I've seen. Granted, ranked isn't popping as steadily on SF as it seems to be on DM. It's possible my opinions may change once the ranked season actually starts.

Also, a freecasting sorc in a heal game isn't the best example. A sorc under any kind of pressure, or has to do any amount of kiting or chasing obviously isn't doing 15k dps.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
Edit: I guess my point is, for the past month since the expansion launched, people have been unable to get past the fact that after an Assassin's Opener, they do terrible sustained damage. There is so much more to a fight than the opener. And in ranked, NO ONE dies to the opener because they get peels, heals, off-guards, etc from their team mates. I will admit, in Regular Warzones, Assassins are monstrous. But in ranked, I'm sorry, it's just not the case. Just go queue up ranked and see for yourself, I can't even make this stuff up. If there's a lightning sorc in your match, just compare their performance to the Assassins. When you focus an Assassin, they drop like flies. When you focus a Lightning Sorc, they have so much DR and ways to kite and mitigate your damage, they are harder to kill then Sins. It's insane. But let's keep focusing on the first 30 seconds of the match and ignore the other 4 minutes 30 seconds.

I 100% support Sins being nerfed if it means people will open their eyes and realize that there are much better specs out there that deserve attention.
See, this is biased sin main hogwash. I've played a bunch of ranked by now on SF. The team with more stealth classes on their team wins the vast majority of the time. Because ops and sins actually do real damage now, unlike in 5.x, and they still have all the utility that they had before, and more with swapping tacticals.

I'm not just focusing on the first 30 seconds and the opener either. I've never said that. Sins, with their multiple stealth out heal to fulls, swapping tacticals, and offguarding. And they have very good burst to boot. Lightning sorcs can be controlled and interrupted once polarity shift is on cooldown, and as long as you chase and pursue after phasewalk, they are not that hard to kill. Sins aren't nearly as squishy as sin mains like to pretend, because they always discount stealthing out and healing to full.

And I'll repeat it for the 50th time, because you still seem to assume I think sins are overpowered and need to be nerfed. I haven't come to that conclusion yet. I'm simply saying they are one of the top 2 performing classes right now.

Jinre_the_Jedi's Avatar


Jinre_the_Jedi
11.13.2019 , 05:11 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
I'm not just focusing on the first 30 seconds and the opener either. I've never said that. Sins, with their multiple stealth out heal to fulls, swapping tacticals, and offguarding. And they have very good burst to boot. Lightning sorcs can be controlled and interrupted once polarity shift is on cooldown, and as long as you chase and pursue after phasewalk, they are not that hard to kill. Sins aren't nearly as squishy as sin mains like to pretend, because they always discount stealthing out and healing to full.

And I'll repeat it for the 50th time, because you still seem to assume I think sins are overpowered and need to be nerfed. I haven't come to that conclusion yet. I'm simply saying they are one of the top 2 performing classes right now.
My reply is to everyone, not just you to specifically, which is why I said all instead of you. So don't take it so personally lol.

I'm not going to get into another debate regarding how strong or weak you think sins are because this isn't the thread for it. Simply put, we are approaching the time when more classes are getting fully geared with set bonuses and tacticals, not just stealth classes. And are beginning to see exactly what all these classes are capable of. Regarding a freecasting sorc, a lot of these sorcs were tunneled, I'll be sure to screencap the damage taken for them along with their insane 12k+ DPS to prove my point that they are strong. If you tunnel a sin like you do a sorc, a sin won't even have half of that sorc's dps.

Edit: https://i.imgur.com/v3Dlb5c.jpg - Jugg was tunneled for 650k damage here

https://i.imgur.com/Pp4UZmn.jpg - Sorc took 450k (everyone else took 350-400k damage) and still did incredible damage. I can post more of these too btw. Sorc, even when tunneled, does incredible damage this expansion.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
11.13.2019 , 06:14 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
My reply is to everyone, not just you to specifically, which is why I said all instead of you. So don't take it so personally lol.

I'm not going to get into another debate regarding how strong or weak you think sins are because this isn't the thread for it. Simply put, we are approaching the time when more classes are getting fully geared with set bonuses and tacticals, not just stealth classes. And are beginning to see exactly what all these classes are capable of. Regarding a freecasting sorc, a lot of these sorcs were tunneled, I'll be sure to screencap the damage taken for them along with their insane 12k+ DPS to prove my point that they are strong. If you tunnel a sin like you do a sorc, a sin won't even have half of that sorc's dps.

Edit: https://i.imgur.com/v3Dlb5c.jpg - Jugg was tunneled for 650k damage here

https://i.imgur.com/Pp4UZmn.jpg - Sorc took 450k (everyone else took 350-400k damage) and still did incredible damage. I can post more of these too btw. Sorc, even when tunneled, does incredible damage this expansion.
Taking 450k is nothing this expansion. That's not being tunneled. If this was 5.x, you'd have a point. This is just more misinformation sadly. Desperately trying to shift the narrative away from ops and sins.

Jinre_the_Jedi's Avatar


Jinre_the_Jedi
11.13.2019 , 06:42 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Taking 450k is nothing this expansion. That's not being tunneled. If this was 5.x, you'd have a point. This is just more misinformation sadly. Desperately trying to shift the narrative away from ops and sins.
How am I trying to shift the narrative desperately when I already said they should nerf sins. Youíre such a questionable individual. Whatever friend.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
11.13.2019 , 06:57 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
You can all hate on Sins all you want, but just wait until you see some of the top players on Sniper, Operative and Sorc. It's scary.
You've made several statements just like that one. They all boil down to "yeah, yeah, yeah sins, BUT LOOK AT THESE OTHER OP CLASSES OMG." How is that not desperately trying to change the narrative? Seems pretty obvious to me. I know you didn't make this thread, but its title is also a blatant attempt to do it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
I 100% support Sins being nerfed if it means people will open their eyes and realize that there are much better specs out there that deserve attention.
Here and elsewhere you've basically admitted that your supposed desire for sin nerfs is not really sincere, but is just a sad attempt to prove a (wrong) point to people.

Jinre_the_Jedi's Avatar


Jinre_the_Jedi
11.13.2019 , 07:30 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
You've made several statements just like that one. They all boil down to "yeah, yeah, yeah sins, BUT LOOK AT THESE OTHER OP CLASSES OMG." How is that not desperately trying to change the narrative? Seems pretty obvious to me. I know you didn't make this thread, but its title is also a blatant attempt to do it.



Here and elsewhere you've basically admitted that your supposed desire for sin nerfs is not really sincere, but is just a sad attempt to prove a (wrong) point to people.
So now my opinion that they should nerf sins isnít genuine enough for you? Lmao.

Edit: This is like the most damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario I've ever seen. If I offer constructive feedback on how to counter sins until the upcoming balance changes, I get called out for defending an OP class, as seen here: https://i.imgur.com/IGtZiqk.png

If I reconsider my position due to the public's feedback and say, "maybe you guys are right, Bioware, go ahead and nerf sin's opener" I get called out for not being genuine enough and ironically asking for nerfs.

I feel like I'm being tried as a witch in Salem in the 1690s. If I swim, I must be a witch! If I drown, I die, but at least I wasn't a witch! Gotta love the PvP forums.

Snippao's Avatar


Snippao
11.13.2019 , 08:19 PM | #38
Just to remember:
high skill floor doesnt justify broken numbers.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
11.13.2019 , 08:23 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
So now my opinion that they should nerf sins isnít genuine enough for you? Lmao.
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
I 100% support Sins being nerfed if it means people will open their eyes and realize that there are much better specs out there that deserve attention.
Someone who wants something nerfed sincerely says "I think x needs to be nerfed because it's overpowered, etc etc," Not "I think x needs to be nerfed so that people will stop ************ about it and realize that other classes were better all along." That's what you've been saying in plain English. It's not like I'm putting words in your mouth or trying to read your mind, I'm directly quoting you.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
11.13.2019 , 10:06 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Jinre_the_Jedi View Post
So now my opinion that they should nerf sins isnít genuine enough for you? Lmao.

Edit: This is like the most damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario I've ever seen. If I offer constructive feedback on how to counter sins until the upcoming balance changes, I get called out for defending an OP class, as seen here: https://i.imgur.com/IGtZiqk.png

If I reconsider my position due to the public's feedback and say, "maybe you guys are right, Bioware, go ahead and nerf sin's opener" I get called out for not being genuine enough and ironically asking for nerfs.

I feel like I'm being tried as a witch in Salem in the 1690s. If I swim, I must be a witch! If I drown, I die, but at least I wasn't a witch! Gotta love the PvP forums.
Yep, itís unfair. Trying to change your opinion on these forums often leads to straw men attacking you because they just want to argue or troll you, God for bid you change your opinion.

Even Iíve started to change mine a little bit since the opener you posted. Because it is getting easier to counter if you have a brain. And it will make little difference to me on my Sin because I rarely get the whole opener off unless the person is bad or they have zero DCDs available.

I still donít think it needs nerfing because you can counter it. But if it makes all the QQ about sins go away and the FOTM noobs move to another class, then why not. Itís not going to hurt me that much.

The only nerf needed in my opinion is the tactical swapping and if they nerf the opener and leave the tactical swapping in, then it will make little to no difference to people saying Sins are OP.

The problem as I see it is those QQing donít even understand the problems because they donít play a Sin or an Operative for that matter. All they see is the large amount of dps and the ability to mitigate more than they should be able to. They donít realise that a bunch of it is caused by the tactical swapping.

Let them nerf the opener, Iíll still be playing my sins with all my other classes. Itís the only way you can truely understand a class and know how to fight against them better.