General_Brass Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) The Kuat Mesas domination map, and the space shipyard map are both asymmetric. The shipyard map has a satellite in an enclosed structure, that is closer to one side, and a satellite that is out in the open closer to the other. The mesas has the center satellite in a highly defensible position that is equidistant for both sides, but has greater accessibility from one than the other due to where the ports in the walls are. Putting aside the advantage, why don't the sides flip on these maps just to liven up the game and break up the monotony ? The tech is there we see it in wargames. Edited April 29, 2014 by General_Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalphitis Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) When I first started playing GSF months ago, this is one of the first things I noticed. There are some inherent disadvantages in the maps...I don't think about it much anymore since it doesn't really play a significant role in the outcome of a game. I do think it would a good idea to flip sides though or make it random. What is a huge problem for me is this: The location of powerups on the map. I have played in multiple Team Deathmatch games where my team has received 2 Damage Overcharges shortly after spawning. Both were on our side of the map. That places the other team at a significant early disadvantage. I think most people on these forums dislike the current mechanics of the DO in the first place. When you basically give one or more DOs to one team at the start of the game, it's ridiculous. Edited April 29, 2014 by Kalphitis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyGStatus Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Regards to the maps - yeah, they're not perfectly symmetrical. Neither is the Millenium Falcon. Did that ship have a disadvantage? Yes - it was a bucket of bolts, but it had a great pilot who made the most of it and was able to make the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs . Regards to DO - Please fix DO. Make it 200% (leave one shots, because double 2400 would still be enough to take down 100% of ships that aren't bombers, [don't know how much HP bombers have, but I think it would either kill them or cripple them]). Make the locations be forced to spawn on both sides of the map so both sides have an equal chance of getting it. During the match, it becomes either a) an object I need to have in order to secure a win when paired with a bunch of 2 ship pilots, b) a glowing orb that sparkles enough to catch my eye and enables me to stop/turn/fire on an annoying and pursuing scout, or c) a demoralizing hope crusher for the other team from early on in a match if the other team's scouts don't pick it up before I one shot everyone in a tough match. The maps are fine though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Post ChrisSchmidt Posted April 30, 2014 Dev Post Share Posted April 30, 2014 What is a huge problem for me is this: The location of powerups on the map. I have played in multiple Team Deathmatch games where my team has received 2 Damage Overcharges shortly after spawning. Both were on our side of the map. That places the other team at a significant early disadvantage. I can peel back the curtain a bit in regard to the powerups. Possible powerup spawn points are placed in clusters. A cluster is typically in and around points of interest (anything from a series of scaffolding to an asteroid). Each map may have say 9 clusters, with 10-12 possible spawn points in each. Each team has at least 3 clusters that are on their side of the map, and the rest are shared with the other team. These shared clusters are always in the middle of the map. As of now, only one powerup is ever active within one cluster at a time. Once it's picked up, the next will spawn in a pseudo-random spot within that cluster. The actual powerup spawned has a weight on it, to determine what to spawn. The shield, engine and weapon powerups have an equally very high chance of spawning, and damage overcharge has a very, very low chance of spawning. This is true for all clusters except the 'super' cluster. There is one per map, and it's typically spawn points placed mostly in the center of the map, but sometimes one or two spread closer to either team's side. This super cluster only spawns damage overcharge powerups, ensuring there is almost always at least one up during the match (aside from respawn time once it's picked up). So, for what you observed, the natural damage overcharge powerup spawned near the center of the map (but lucky for you, it skewed towards your team), and you had a very very rare second damage overcharge happen to spawn in a cluster on your side of the map. This isn't the norm, but typically you should see powerups fairly evenly distributed throughout the maps, in terms of numbers of them closer to your side. It's entirely possible one team has only weapon overcharge powerups and the other only has engine overcharge powerups, but all in all I think you'll find it's a pretty fair way of distributing powerups. One game you may have the advantage at the start, and the next the opposite team may. I think that covers it. If you have any more questions about the fascinating subject of powerup placement, feel free to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I can peel back the curtain a bit in regard to the powerups. Thanks for this. So, let me see if I understand this right: Let's pretend there's a powerup cluster set around two asteroids. When the game says "time for a new powerup", it rolls the dice to see which powerup is spawned. Most of the time, it'll choose engine (which spawns behind asteroid A), shield (which spawns above asteroid B), or weapon (which spawns a few kilometers to the side of asteroid A). On rare occasions, it'll choose damage (which spawns between the two asteroids). The super cluster, on the other hand, always chooses damage overcharge. It has a fair number of places where the powerup can spawn (I get the impression it's somewhere on the order of 4-6 different spawns), all of which are mostly to the center of the map, or perhaps slightly skewed to one side or the other. Would it be theoretically possible (though statistically improbable) for a match to start with only damage overcharges on the map, or are some clusters incapable of spawning DO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 It's entirely possible one team has only weapon overcharge powerups and the other only has engine overcharge powerups, but all in all I think you'll find it's a pretty fair way of distributing powerups. For the lolz, what were the chances to see two DO at the same time or powerups drawing an almost perfect circle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalphitis Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 For the lolz, what were the chances to see two DO at the same time or powerups drawing an almost perfect circle ? lol nice On another random note, the 'lens flare' appearance of powerups is starting to mess with my mind. The other day I was watching Star Trek Into Darkness, and on more than one occasion I thought there was a shield or weapon powerup present in the movie Curse you JJ Abrams! I suppose Lens Flares + Star Wars is just the way things are going to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Post ChrisSchmidt Posted May 1, 2014 Dev Post Share Posted May 1, 2014 Thanks for this. So, let me see if I understand this right: Let's pretend there's a powerup cluster set around two asteroids. When the game says "time for a new powerup", it rolls the dice to see which powerup is spawned. Most of the time, it'll choose engine (which spawns behind asteroid A), shield (which spawns above asteroid B), or weapon (which spawns a few kilometers to the side of asteroid A). On rare occasions, it'll choose damage (which spawns between the two asteroids). Close...when it's time for a new powerup, it rolls the dice to find a location to spawn it in the cluster. Let's say there's 8 possible spots. It decides on spot 3. Then it rolls the dice to decide which powerup will spawn at spot 3. The super cluster, on the other hand, always chooses damage overcharge. It has a fair number of places where the powerup can spawn (I get the impression it's somewhere on the order of 4-6 different spawns), all of which are mostly to the center of the map, or perhaps slightly skewed to one side or the other. The super cluster typically has more possible spots than a normal cluster. If I recall on the asteroids map, there are something like 12-15 possible spots. Most are in the center (and typically explore verticality a bit) but some are in a larger radius around the center. Would it be theoretically possible (though statistically improbable) for a match to start with only damage overcharges on the map, or are some clusters incapable of spawning DO? Yup. I wanted to leave a very small chance any normal cluster could spawn damage overcharge so there's always a reason to look for a powerup once you get the gist of where the different spawn areas are. In general, placement isn't very random. You'll notice patterns typically. In Kuat Mesas for example you'll find most spawn points are on top of small mesas, under or on top of arches, in doorways, and typically in the mid to lower sections of the map vertically. It's tempting to fly up into open space, so the powerups are trying to draw you back down, while providing a bit of cover using the environment to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think we already had the "under/over arches and atop mesas" thing figured out awhile ago, but the slusters are interesting. I keep thinking of it like the spawn paths from SWBF2 where you had points along a line that would be stretched around the command post, where each of the points on that line was a possible spawn location for a unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I like how my post got promoted to dev-level. Again, thanks for the clarifications, Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I like how my post got promoted to dev-level. *grovels before armondd* Edited May 1, 2014 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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