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Why is there no world PvP?


termixonian

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I reached level 50 with 2 characters - imperial side. With my first I did almost all of the quests on all the planets. The story was great. With my second i did only half the quests and my class quest.

Both times I was questing I met very few rebel players on all the planets. I remember 2-3 from tatooine and 2-3 on Hoth and 1 on Nar shadaa bonus quests. I attacked them, happy to do PvP on a PvP server. But that was it. So in my 2 months of playing i managed to find around 15-20 rebel players on all the planets I visited with my 2 characters.

Now THAT is whats wrong with PvP in SWTOR.

It is made like a single player game. It is a superb story and lots of fun to play but there is no world PvP - even after you get a warning choosing a server to be PvP.

Developers just decided each side should have a totally separated quest hubs so you can enjoy the story? WRONG

There should be killing and quest items/monsters stealing from the second planet onward. That is the base of world PvP.

 

Warzones are not real PvP. You can join and know nothing bad will happen. Maybe you will waste some time and get less valor/cash/expirience but thats it. You cannot lose anything in warzones. Warzones should be only for training so you can kill players for real in the world.

Also PvP gear is just stupid. Let me explain.

Lets say I play 2-3 hours per day average. I like to do flashpoints and quests. I will not go to warzones since I do not have time. So I get "PvE" gear. With that gear I have 0 chance to kill an average guy geared with basic PvP gear.

So what should I do ? Spend all my time in warzones to get PVP gear? So I cant do FP and quests that I like?

Warzones should not give you gear it should only give credits and titles. Generaly there should be no "PvP" gear.

If there are 2 types of gear then that is like having 2 games. 1 is PvE game with PvE gear. And the other is PvP game with PvP gear. With PvE gear u cant defeat PvP players. And players with PvP gear have hard time in PvE content. You just cannot do both at the same time. Especially since there is no WORLD PvP to do so!!!!!!

Oh and in SWTOR you do not get anything if u kill a player outside of Illum or warzones. 0 valor 0 credits 0 anything.

I hope people will understand what I am trying to say here about WORLD PVP and how it affects the whole game.

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I think your missing the big problem, the problem is serperation, the players are their, but the questing zones completely on the opposite sides of the map. The lack of insentives also discourges players from attempting to cross that line into the oppostie factions leveling area.
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The game's design was a compete failure.

 

 

There is no difference in a so-called PvE server and their PvP servers. Failed hero engine cannot support enough players for a healthy PvP population so EA created a ton of little servers (low population caps) and sharded, instanced, and seperated as many players as possible in order for their servers to crash and lag less.

 

 

What does this mean to us players?? No open world PvP and dead servers. This game is more or less an 8v8 instanced game. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited by Mrcheezle
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To the OP: Even though you are right, you will get a lot of backlash because it is apparent that the majority of players in this game believe PvP is about gear progression and not competition. This is why there is a good amount of support for different gear sets; the idea that you can do PvP and PvE in the same gear simply doesn't register as possible with people who played "certain games" in the past.

 

As for world pvp...they failed with Ilum and are back to the drawing board. Most likely they will just invent a new way to fail at developing an "open world" pvp zone.

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I have made 2 lvl 50s and I have a lvl 49 that should ding today.

 

I play on a pvp server Scepter of Ragnos and on my 1st toon I seen 3 republic players on my jurney to 50.

 

The 2nd character got to 50 seeing only 1 enemy player and my lvl 49 has yet to see a single jedi in battle other than WZ's.

 

There is no world pvp, Ilum is just a joke, and Tatooine is always empty.

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OP they took the WOW approach to pvp makeing everything instanced and adding gear as a incentive which is why they failed in open world pvp. It never ceases to amaze me why the developers put time and money into instanced pvp when you got a whole planet's to do battle on.

 

And to prevent ganking of low levels which is going to be the argument against this concept just keep the pvp flag of switch and make all quest givers and vendors/flight paths non killable simple problem solved. Those leveling could do so and those that want to duke it out at high level can do so plus you never have to fight in a huttball again.

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To the OP: Even though you are right, you will get a lot of backlash because it is apparent that the majority of players in this game believe PvP is about gear progression and not competition. This is why there is a good amount of support for different gear sets; the idea that you can do PvP and PvE in the same gear simply doesn't register as possible with people who played "certain games" in the past.

 

As for world pvp...they failed with Ilum and are back to the drawing board. Most likely they will just invent a new way to fail at developing an "open world" pvp zone.

 

I want to address the underlined point for a moment:

 

The primary reason for that is due to experiences in games like vanilla WoW in which there was initially no competitive PvP gear. At that point, the gear from raiding was better than anything else, and raiders would come into PvP and demolish all other players. This made folks who didn't like to raid, who just wanted to PvP upset, since they weren't competitive doing the one thing they liked.

 

So PvP gear was introduced to offset that -- allowing PvPers to get high-quality gear and not be stomped by raiders. The problem came about, however, with the introduction of the pvp stat, which now made the two sets of gear completely different. TOR has followed that trend with Expertise.

 

There does have to be PvP gear (unless the game ignores gear in PvP) to ensure that people who primarily enjoy PvP aren't stomped by people who don't focus on it and get better gear from doing something else. BioWare probably should've NOT implemented Expertise and made each tier of PvP gear equal to the tiers of Operation gear; but with different graphics. This would create an equal field and players could get the best gear in the game through either PvE or PvP and be able to more easily do both.

 

There are, of course, problems with that if people feel the PvP gear is "easier" to get than doing Operations -- but that all comes down to balance and how the PvP gear is acquired. Something, obviously, that BioWare is still struggling with in the game.

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The game's design was a compete failure.

 

 

There is no difference in a so-called PvE server and their PvP servers. Failed hero engine cannot support enough players for a healthy PvP population so EA created a ton of little servers (low population caps) and sharded, instanced, and seperated as many players as possible in order for their servers to crash and lag less.

 

 

What does this mean to us players?? No open world PvP and dead servers. This game is more or less an 8v8 instanced game. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I completely agree. The servers cant handle a real MMO (as opposed to an MO) so they have this result: I am on Tatooine mid day Saturday and there are four (four) people on with me. I dont know where they are. I imagine there are even fewer Republic. The game play is good, and even though the two camps are too far apart, even if you trek to the end of the world to find them, you will be lucky to find one person you can attack.

 

I'm on Naddist Rebels server. It's pvp and its population always is low. This game caters to soloing pve heros.

 

MERGER SERVERS AND FIND A WAY TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE MORE PEOPLE ON THE SCREEN AT ONCE. THIS IS 2012 AND THE SERVERS HANDLE LESS ON SCREEN THAN THE PRIVATE ONLINE VERSIONS OF NEVERWINTER NIGHTS I PLAYED 10 YEARS AGO.

 

It seems as though they poured tens of millions of dollars into story lines, tens of millions into artwork, and a thousand dollars into technical matters.

 

It's too bad, the story lines are the best I have ever seen in an [M]MO and the game play and character progression and customization, and use of companions, makes it a very good game. It just is a game without real PVP.:(

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You can't have a game with battlegrounds AND open pvp.

 

If you want SWTOR to be a really fantastic, legendary pvp game shut down the battlegrounds. After you do that get everyone on basically the same gear scale and add realm ranks (character progression NOT gear progression) that are gained by pvp. Now, make everyone earn their realm ranks OUT IN THE WORLD.

 

Done...awesome game that will be talked about for years to come.

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leveling up on Shadowtown it was a common experience to run into Imps on Alderaan, Tatooine and Hoth especially. I had many encounters, in fact almost daily I would run into an Imp.

 

Call that population imbalance if you like but it's pretty common that someone in guild might even call for some help because there are some higher level Imps griefing people on Tat.

 

Last time that happened we threw together a party and went and ****ed their **** up, killing them insider their base.

 

**** with my lowbee guildies will you?

 

It's rare, but it's out there. Perhaps it's died down that not as many people are leveling.

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What I want to know is why people don't use the spell checking plug ins for their browsers.....

 

The devs promised us nirvana and we got the cesspool.

 

Other parts of the game were done very well.

 

This game has taken MMO gaming back instead of forward. Too bad. It is starting to make STO look good which was a another bomb.

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Want to know exactly why there will never be large-scale PvP in this game? Simple. Hitching.

 

Press your spacebar to jump in the air. As soon as your press it, press the key to open your character window. Now time the lag.

 

The game itself literally freezes for the client while it's fetching data to populate the data in the character window. This is actually a 2-step process to get the data from the asset files and load it into DISKCACHEARENA then get the data from the cache file into your client.

 

This example I gave is the core problem with the game. Throw about 20-30 players fighting each other in near proximity of each other and you'll see the problem clearly. If you have ever camped the base in Ilum you know exactly what I mean. FPS drops horrendously low and the sheer amount of repeated hitching lowers the overall FPS down so it seems like you are constantly lagging.

 

Faster PCs reduce the amount of hitching durations but it's still noticeable. Reducing polygons helps and reducing the detail of ability effects helps but the core problem is still there.

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The devs deliberately designed maps/questing zones so players of the opposite faction would never run into each other. I don't agree with it, or like it, but I don't think there is any way to fix it.

 

Also, this game's engine does not like when lots of people are in the same area, so mass PvP is a no-go.

Edited by SweetNausea
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The devs deliberately designed maps/questing zones so players of the opposite faction would never run into each other. I don't agree with it, or like it, but I don't think there is any way to fix it.

 

Some genius decided that physically separating players was for the good of the game. Wanna start betting who made that decision?

 

Also, this game's engine does not like when lots of people are in the same area, so mass PvP is a no-go.

 

I doubt we will see any fix to this for a very long time so massive PvP is a no-go for sure.

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To the OP, sounds like you have pleyed EQ1 and DAoC?

 

To me it sounds like it, becus it whas like that!

 

 

You have to fight to get control over important places and mobs.

 

That in turn gives som frustration but also massive fights, proper team play.

 

Its fun!!

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It also has to be noted that Open World Pvp can't work when Imperials outnumber Repub's at insane rates on most if not all servers.

 

The problem is mostly the players. If your not playing a Republic toon, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

 

You can cry all about wanting open world pvp all day long, as long as the player population imbalance remains no matter what technical fixes they make, it will never happen.

 

As a Repub why would I go to Illium wind up all alone to be insta killed by 30 imperials all huddling together afraid of winding up in a 1v1 with me?

 

Answer: we don't go... and we never will... as you'll never re-roll en mass... so... kiss Open world Pvp bye bye... in this game.

Edited by VoidJustice
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As someone that got stuck on a PVE server (followed friends) and only does PVP Ilum was really nice. Even though our server is on the small side and heavily outnumbered by Imps it was still fun to have big back-and-forths every now and again.

 

It's dead now and will be totally gone when the "Ilum" daily/weekly gets taken out.

 

I run around my PVE server flagged 100% of the time hoping for some open world action. I've never been attacked. Open world pvp has gone the way of Ilum, dead.

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It also has to be noted that Open World Pvp can't work when Imperials outnumber Repub's at insane rates on most if not all servers.

 

The problem is mostly the players. If your not playing a Republic toon, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM.

 

You can cry all about wanting open world pvp all day long, as long as the player population imbalance remains no matter what technical fixes they make, it will never happen.

 

As a Repub why would I go to Illium wind up all alone to be insta killed by 30 imperials all huddling together afraid of winding up in a 1v1 with me?

 

Answer: we don't go... and we never will... as you'll never re-roll en mass... so... kiss Open world Pvp bye bye... in this game.

 

Wrong. Ozzone has it right, and he did a good analyses of a problem I didnt understand. It isnt player imbalance. Its deliberately making populations so small that there is no meaningful open world pvp.

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I read all the posts and I can see most of the players know whats wrong with open world PvP.

Why cant the Bioware guys that are paid to do it see it also? Are they blind or stupid or what?

 

Like someone wrote; Maybe the servers could not handle 30 vs 30 people at the same time.

 

I played WoW and we had our first raid to Undercity with around 100 players on mounts going in. It lagged like hell. When u pressed a spell it took 2-5 minutes to resolve. The computer guards had no lag ofc. They killed you and you did not know you are dead for 2-5 minutes also. We decided not to go there again. There were also a lot of enemy players.

 

On illum that happened with 15-20 imps vs 10-15 pubs. Even after I retreated to base my computer could not recover from the lag. It just crashed.

Like someone wrote - millions for the story and couple of thousands for the network stuff. Sad. Even more sad cause this is a great game with great story. I will still play at least 2 stories on republic side and do the quests.

 

Lets hope Bioware and some other mmo companies will learn from all this and produce a better PvP world in the future.

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ganking lower level players on either side is not pvp lol. Theres no open world b/c they screwed up with ilum.

 

Faction imbalance is due to no alien races I.E wookies/rodians on rep and the rep side having crap storylines. They need to revamp the whole rep side.

 

I do feel the same way i got 4 toons up for world pvp and when i got out to ilum with my first one it was just a rep base camp 24/7 then it turned into being instanced to hell and you spent all your time switching instances and not pvp'ng

 

I agree about having both warzones and open world they hurt each other more then they compliment each other.

 

Im hoping theyll revamp ilum and give us what we all want but my gut feeling is if they do fix it theyll just fix the capture points from turning so fast and say its fixed

 

The bigger question is why isnt there pvp bases on other planets? That would have been perfect right now ilum wouldnt even matter then we could just open world pvp elsewhere and it would have been better pvp for rep players to who are stuck at there bast most the time they could just go elsewhere and see how the pvp is at other bases.

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why is there no world pvp?

 

well there was, but everyone abused it. once it got fixed to avoid the abuse, few people participated in it at all.

 

I guess it was a waste of time and resources. It would be a bigger waste to add yet more.

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I am not talking about ganking low level players. I am talking about no PvP at all on planets. One of the reasons is also that you do not get ANYTHING if you kill a player outside of warzone or illum area. So how is that a PvP world?

And seriously If u want to gank low lvl players you can do it anywhere. There will always be that but there will also always be players that will protect the low lvl newbies. There are always 2 sides not just 1.

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