WhiskeyGin Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) I'm going to write this down. You're probably going to swear under your breath about it then put on your "forum troll" hat and start flaming me, but I gotta say it. Luke wasn't a Jedi throughout the first series of movies (Ep. 4-6), afterwards maybe. He had only minimal training, at best--considering Jedis usually dedicate their whole lives to it; he spent way more time in military operations rather than nurturing the spiritual connection to nature that the Force represents; and, I'm pretty sure he was groomed so that he could just unleash all of his force potential the second he got close to Vader or Palpatine. On top of that, the entirety of his training is really in Empire Strikes back when he spends maybe a whole month with Yoda before going back to being a soldier. Honestly, he wasn't the Jedi's last hope; he was their last gamble. /initiateflamewars Edited June 7, 2012 by WhiskeyGin Mispelling and grammar fixes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 No duh Sherlock is the only reponse I can think of, no offense. Luke was never a Jedi, baesd on the PT version of a "Jedi." Luke began his own version for a new era. I think you were looking too into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Not a full jedi huh? In title no, training? Yes he was. At the end of ROTJ he was a full fledged jedi knight. Luke had completed his training into be a jedi though by ROTJ. "No more training do you require, already know you that which you need."- Yoda. The movies may not have shown, but the books certainly do that Luke self trained extensively. By ROTJ he was a jedi knight. At the end, since all he had to do was confront Vader he was full jedi knight in both title and skill. "One thing remains, Vader you must confront Vader, then only then a jedi will you be."- Yoda. Edited June 7, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Luke was more of a Jedi than those in the Pre-equal trilogy. At the very end of Return of the Jedi he was willing to give it all to attempt to redeem his father, he even threw away his lightsaber when the Emperor told him to strike down Vader, this was his only means to defend himself and attack the Emperor. He embraced the ideals of "compassion", "sacrifice" and "love", his father embraced those same ideals when he saved Luke, you cannot be more Jedi than that. Edited June 7, 2012 by Tuscad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskeyGin Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 "No more training do you require, already know you that which you need."- Yoda. "One thing remains, Vader you must confront Vader, then only then a jedi will you be."- Yoda. You ever heard of telling someone what they need to hear so that they'll man up? Yeah, just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 You ever heard of telling someone what they need to hear so that they'll man up? Yeah, just like that. This wasn't likely the case, Yoda pulls no punches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eillack Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) You ever heard of telling someone what they need to hear so that they'll man up? Yeah, just like that. Like I said you are looking too into this. And when Yoda says someone is ready, they are ready. Luke only needed an X amount of skill to defeat the "enemy" of the Jedi, Vader. After Vader, Luke did not need to became the "jedi" that were defined in the PT. Eventually the EU would fill the void and Luke became more of a demi-god than Galen Marek was in video-game form. Edited June 7, 2012 by Eillack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiskeyGin Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Luke was more of a Jedi than those in the Pre-equal trilogy. At the very end of Return of the Jedi he was willing to give it all to attempt to redeem his father, he even threw away his lightsaber when the Emperor told him to strike down Vader, this was his only means to defend himself and attack the Emperor. He embraced the ideals of "compassion", "sacrifice" and "love", his father embraced those same ideals when he saved Luke, you cannot be more Jedi than that. I can see where you're coming from. However, I think that scene was more about Luke realizing that fighting Palpatine with force (see what I did there?) would be useless-- after all, he was the only guy in the galaxy that could shoot lightning out of his hands. I like to think he put down his lightsaber and let the Force be his guide; and also let all that sweet talk he'd been throwing Vader since Empire Strikes Back finally pay off. Also, I think Anakin did turn out to be the "Chosen One." He brought balance to the Force by letting the only real Jedis left die of old age then killed the remaining Sith. I don't doubt Luke eventually grew into the real McCoy, but in the formal (i.e. recognized) sense of being a Jedi, Luke was pretty much a Padawan. One last thing, to whomever said that "but he was a self-trained Jedi" muck-- Yeah, okay but I'm not letting a self-trained doctor perform a heart transplant on me. There's a reason Jedi had a training system and it was to keep a higher portion of Force sensitives from turning to the Dark Side than just letting them experiment with the Force on their own (tell me if you were a child with the Force you wouldn't use it constantly to get whatever you wanted-- Dark Side for real). Without formal training, Luke can still call himself a Jedi if he really feels that way (plus as a state-labeled terrorist organization, that'll probably go over really well) but it doesn't make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Luke self trained from the various holocrons/books that Obi-Wan left him, and also going off of what Yoda taught him.(Pretty sure also a few other things from the books too) Its not like he just did things at random, he trained himself using the few resources he could get his hands on. Ever heard of a prodigy? Because thats what Luke was, he became a jedi knight in 4 years flat at the end of ROTJ. Edited June 7, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CassusVerda Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Luke was a full fledged Jedi, He just wasn't as flashy or as fast paced a fighter as the Jedi Order before which had the luxury of being able to study each other's form of Light saber combat styles and stances. All Luke had was what he could find along with what Ben and Yoda could tell him or show him. It was enough however. He was still a formidable opponent for non force users and Darth Vader. As can be seen in ROTJ. I have a feeling if Luke had went up against a Prequel Jedi in a sparring match he would get his butt handed to him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 (edited) Luke was a full fledged Jedi, He just wasn't as flashy or as fast paced a fighter as the Jedi Order before which had the luxury of being able to study each other's form of Light saber combat styles and stances. All Luke had was what he could find along with what Ben and Yoda could tell him or show him. It was enough however. He was still a formidable opponent for non force users and Darth Vader. As can be seen in ROTJ. I have a feeling if Luke had went up against a Prequel Jedi in a sparring match he would get his butt handed to him though. Not entirely sure on that, remember he could learn stuff on the fly from watching others. So if he sparred a jedi knight from the PT era, he could quite well hold his own and perhaps beat the knight. Edited June 7, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 /initiateflamewars Dunno why you thought it would get you a flame war. You didn't say "remake episodes 4-6", you brought a reasonable discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I can see where you're coming from. However, I think that scene was more about Luke realizing that fighting Palpatine with force (see what I did there?) would be useless-- after all, he was the only guy in the galaxy that could shoot lightning out of his hands. I like to think he put down his lightsaber and let the Force be his guide; and also let all that sweet talk he'd been throwing Vader since Empire Strikes Back finally pay off. Also, I think Anakin did turn out to be the "Chosen One." He brought balance to the Force by letting the only real Jedis left die of old age then killed the remaining Sith. I don't doubt Luke eventually grew into the real McCoy, but in the formal (i.e. recognized) sense of being a Jedi, Luke was pretty much a Padawan. One last thing, to whomever said that "but he was a self-trained Jedi" muck-- Yeah, okay but I'm not letting a self-trained doctor perform a heart transplant on me. There's a reason Jedi had a training system and it was to keep a higher portion of Force sensitives from turning to the Dark Side than just letting them experiment with the Force on their own (tell me if you were a child with the Force you wouldn't use it constantly to get whatever you wanted-- Dark Side for real). Without formal training, Luke can still call himself a Jedi if he really feels that way (plus as a state-labeled terrorist organization, that'll probably go over really well) but it doesn't make it so. Luke and us (the audience) didn't know Palpatine had lightning (assuming you watched the O.T. first). Heck we didn't even know he could use the Force or his capablilies. Also Luke is a Jedi because he had the training, sure the training had to be adapted to the enviroment but there were no formal facilities at that time. Obi-Wan and Yoda also both trained him and told him that he was a Jedi. You are correct Anakin is the Chosen One, George Lucas said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Luke and us (the audience) didn't know Palpatine had lightning (assuming you watched the O.T. first). Heck we didn't even know he could use the Force or his capablilies. Also Luke is a Jedi because he had the training, sure the training had to be adapted to the enviroment but there were no formal facilities at that time. Obi-Wan and Yoda also both trained him and told him that he was a Jedi. You are correct Anakin is the Chosen One, George Lucas said so. A shame Palpatine wasn't the only sith lore to use force lighting. Would have made him more unique, and really show how powerful he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilikaa Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Luke may not have been a Jedi in the way they were during the Old republic era but he was the first of a new breed of Jedi. Yoda and Obi-Wan realized the old ways were severely flawed, hence they rethought and revamped how a Jedi would be trained to fight vader and Palpatine. This new way was what lead to Luke becoming a full Knight by the end of RotJ. They would have taught Leia the same way. From there Luke continued to search for sources of Jedi imformation and learn from them as well as other Force users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 A shame Palpatine wasn't the only sith lore to use force lighting. Would have made him more unique, and really show how powerful he was. I agree with this so much. At least he is still the only Sith that can make black holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I agree with this so much. At least he is still the only Sith that can make black holes. I betting someone else will do the same. The uniqueness of memorable characters from the movies is starting to wear off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I betting someone else will do the same. The uniqueness of memorable characters from the movies is starting to wear off. Lol, just watch the Sith Emperor will be able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Luke and us (the audience) didn't know Palpatine had lightning (assuming you watched the O.T. first). Heck we didn't even know he could use the Force or his capablilies. Also Luke is a Jedi because he had the training, sure the training had to be adapted to the enviroment but there were no formal facilities at that time. Obi-Wan and Yoda also both trained him and told him that he was a Jedi. You are correct Anakin is the Chosen One, George Lucas said so. I have to disagree. The Chosen One from Kung Pow: Enter the Fist was The Chosen One. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Zone Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Lol, just watch the Sith Emperor will be able to. Well, both Vitiate and Palpatine can body hop. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordegrus Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Like I said you are looking too into this. And when Yoda says someone is ready, they are ready. Luke only needed an X amount of skill to defeat the "enemy" of the Jedi, Vader. After Vader, Luke did not need to became the "jedi" that were defined in the PT. Eventually the EU would fill the void and Luke became more of a demi-god than Galen Marek was in video-game form. In Bespin, I think he got physically and mentally shaken. Then, when he goes back to Yoda, he says Luke is ready? Uhhh, I dont think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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