I've been playing SWTOR on and off for a very long time. I was in closed beta and I've seen the various iterations this game has had from launch to the present. By far, I find the post-expansion content for KOTET to be the most lackluster and unappealing experience yet for SWTOR.

 

There were two things that largely appealed to me regarding SWTOR. The first thing was BioWare storytelling. I was happy to see it return in KOTFE and even in the form of monthly chapter updates. Unfortunately, that has since been shuttered and it also seems that story chapters have fallen by the wayside.

 

I'm also a big time PvPer. If there is one aspect of this game that has suffered the most, it is PvP. Since launch it is the only feature of the MMO to actually lose content. Ilum open world PvP was removed. 8v8 ranked warzones were removed. Expertise was removed. I've found all of these changes to largely be for the worst, and what's sad is we can only look forward to one new warzone map once a year? We aren't even going to get new armor to work towards or a new level cap with new abilities.

 

It would be one thing if BioWare's future plans were something ambitious. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but all we can expect for the rest of the year is another story flashpoint, another raid boss, a new wz map, and a new gsf map. I know BioWare is patting itself on the back for giving small crumbs to most portions of the player base, but this is simply not enough.

 

Is BioWare that constrained now when it comes to money invested in this game? Are these server merges really costing BioWare as much money as it claims? In a year when The Last Jedi is going to release, you'd think a massive expansion would have been on the table. What exactly is going on with SWTOR?

 

Please, any clarification would be greatly appreciated. I just don't understand where this game is going anymore. Are we going to have to wait until the following November in 2018 for a new expansion?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Aowin

It was dead before the road map and I actually expected it to go off line before the end of the year or early next. But I think the roadmap has given it a jolt and is a step in the right direction.

If they can build on this and ramp up to doing an expansion next year sometime, then I think it can come back to a certain degree.

I feel the reason we don’t have an expansion this year is because of the 5.0 failure, so many players left and theyve spent most of their limited resources all year trying to fix it, they didn’t have the time or money to bring out an expansion this year.

Mergers are a big step in the right direction, without them the game would have surely died next year. I’m optimistic for the first time this year. I guess we’ll know by February if the game will survive another year.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Totemdancer

It was dead before the road map and I actually expect it to go off line before the end of the year or early next. But I think the roadmap has given it a jolt and is a step in the right direction.

If they can build on this and ramp up to doing an expansion next year sometime, then I think it can come back to a certain degree.

I feel the reason we don’t have an expansion this year is because of the 5.0 failure, so many players left and theyve spent most of their limited resources all year trying to fix it, they didn’t have the time or money to bring out an expansion this year.

Mergers are a big step in the right direction, without them the game would have surely died next year. I’m optimistic for the first time this year. I guess we’ll know by February if the game will survive another year.

 

I can’t really say I’m surprised that KOTET failed. Between the horrendous gear progression of galactic command, half the amount of story chapters, a new pointless flashpoint alternative, and nothing else of note, I unsubbed out of boredom.

 

Unfortunately, I’m not nearly as optimistic as you are, because this year has done little, in my opinion, to really improve the game. More pointless daily zones and a raid boss every four months is not my idea of a quality mmo experience. This game needs new leadership and an ambitious expansion that serves as a soft reboot.

 

I don’t see the game lasting long under its current direction.

Well if SWTOR dies can we have SWG back?

I can’t really say I’m surprised that KOTET failed. Between the horrendous gear progression of galactic command, half the amount of story chapters, a new pointless flashpoint alternative, and nothing else of note, I unsubbed out of boredom.

 

Unfortunately, I’m not nearly as optimistic as you are, because this year has done little, in my opinion, to really improve the game. More pointless daily zones and a raid boss every four months is not my idea of a quality mmo experience. This game needs new leadership and an ambitious expansion that serves as a soft reboot.

 

I don’t see the game lasting long under its current direction.

 

Problem being that you cannot expect to release a good or successfull expansion if you don't fix your mess before.

Sure it has been way too long for said fix to happen, and it is my primary concern for now. How much time must be spend until they finally decide to fix this game properly ? Every delay only adds up to the task, because peoples are expecting bigger things the longer the delay is.

Next month will mark the start of utility balance, something that everybody asked since the start of 5.0 (it has been a year since !)... can you imagine what it will be if they mess up this ? How huge the backlash will be ? They begin to reach this point of no returns, where they musn't do even the slightest error if they want to keep this game alive... What worries me is that they don't seem to know this and are still driving at their own pace, without any regards to player's critic :/

Edited October 11, 2017 by supertimtaf

With the current crew heading development - yes. They couldn't kill it any more effectively than they are.

With the current crew heading development - yes. They couldn't kill it any more effectively than they are.

 

I'm a bit confused, the other day you seemed really happy with what they are doing, now it's the opposite again. Not that you can't be unhappy, but I think I often enough see posts by you on the same day that contradict each other.

 

But maybe it's just me misunderstanding what you really mean.🤔

Edited October 11, 2017 by Eshvara

Of course it's dead. That's why the servers are up and people are playing it.

 

WoW, Everquest, RIFT, TERA, League of Legends and Ultima Online are dead too. They're all dead.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Dayshadow

They are fixing the cancer that was 4.x till 5.x. It takes a while to remove tumors. Game is getting better than what it was. MM Ops now have Components and new boss coming 28th rest by end of year followed by MM. GSF got Balance updates and a map. PvP will get a map. They stopped with the cancerous story chapters and went with story and group content with a solo option. Merges have long been overdue. First time I've been this optimistic since 3.0. I'm also realistic as they squandered all their money on KotFE and KotET. They are rebooting the game back to an MMO slowly but surely. We don't need another expac for them to waste money for a trailer on. Will I get a bucket load of content no but I will get more Ops bosses and other MMO content which makes me enthusiastic. It's not going anywhere for awhile as there's no need to shutdown. As much as the complains about nerfs it was also overdue. Killing Swtor would require another 4.0 and any Dev foolish enough to do that hasn't learned a thing or wants to kill the game again. Keith actually plays the game and knows that is asinine. Edited October 11, 2017 by FerkWork

I'm a bit confused, the other day you seemed really happy with what they are doing, now it's the opposite again. Not that you can't be unhappy, but I think I often enough see posts by you on the same day that contradict each other.

 

But maybe it's just me misunderstanding what you really mean.🤔

 

Bandwagon mentality. One person says this sucks, other people have to chime in in agreement to give validity to the words.

No, it's not dead. They are fixing A LOT. They've devoted their resources to this server merge. Sounds like a lot of new content will be coming our way early 2018. I believe I've seen some saying something about new pvp map or something, but I do not remember who on twitter said that.

 

MANY companions will be returning 2018 too.

 

They've talked about the story they are currently writing/about to write involving some Jedi consular companions on twitter.

Well if SWTOR dies can we have SWG back?

 

No, but you can have SWGNext.

Of course it's dead. That's why the servers are up and people are playing it.

 

WoW, Everquest, RIFT, TERA, League of Legends and Ultima Online are dead too. They're all dead.

 

Petition to classify MMOs as a new form of Undeath.

I don't think it's dead, but it's certainly not in a healthy phase.

 

With no new content even on a distant horizon, i can see the game dropping to its' lowest point ever.

 

We need more people to join for group content that those who leave because of no story, i'm very skeptical of that happening.

I'd say the game is not completely dead, but it's not all that alive either. It's like a patient in a hospice who has suffered medical brain death but they're keeping the body alive with life support machines in order to keep being able to cash the patient's Social Security checks and charge exorbitant amounts for minor medical procedures (read: subscriptions and Cartel Market purchases).

 

Could it come fully back to life? Amazing events like that have been known to happen, people waking up after decades long comas... but it's an exceptionally rare happenstance. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited October 11, 2017 by AscendingSky

To me dead means the game servers are closed. It's not dead, there are still open servers.

To me maintenance mode means the game is just running on existing content and nothing new gets added. It's not in maintenance mode, stuff is still being added.

 

Has the population taken a hit since 5.0? Yes. This much is clear but server merges were already being asked for last year. It is a necessary step to give the game some more years and have a chance to recover some of the population.

 

Has the content that has been released since 5.0 been successful? Not as much.

I think the new ops is cool but it's taking a while for the rest to come out.

I did actually like the Umbara FP but as someone mentioned the lack of a dailies area with alternatives to gaining the currency was not a good decision.

The Uprisings could've worked but were mismanaged in my view resulting in confusion about who this content is for in the end. This didn't deliver.

The Iokath dailies have 3 issues. The cost of doing the quests (which is partially addressed now). The confusing map of Iokath and the dailies themselves. So this content also did not deliver.

Then there is 5.6 coming with a new FP which might be cool, but I really hope that BW is going get the point that people like to visit places and not just for an FP or a story mission.

 

For the rest BW has done a lot to improve QoL in the game. A lot of that has gone into "fixing" GC, which I think was the wrong approach. It's manageable and will be better when disintegration changes (although I'm pretty sure BW's got some hidden submarines to break another good thing people are looking forward to).

 

And there have been some really good QoL changes introduced and coming.

 

I do think BW has tried to a lot of things this year to turn things around. I just don't think that in the overall picture that they've been that successful. In part it's bad luck, but for a big part it's also their fault for trying things that had really no chance of succeeding. GC has done a lot of harm to the game. As much as I think it will be alright when disintegration brings UCs to the general non-PvP public, I also think it's a whole bunch of patchwork and workarounds that have been rigged into it and it's still an ugly mess when you look at it.

 

I strongly suggest to BW to get off the GC bandwagon next expansion. It's far from elegant and it made gearing more complicated than it was in 4.0 when the objective was to simplify things.

Of course it's dead. That's why the servers are up and people are playing it.

 

WoW, Everquest, RIFT, TERA, League of Legends and Ultima Online are dead too. They're all dead.

 

They ARE in fact dead,except wow i guess and i don't know that legends thing.

Your definition of a games death is just awkward that's all, keeping servers running is cheap, defining it by "pulling the plug" is....dumb.

They ARE in fact dead,except wow i guess and i don't know that legends thing.

Your definition of a games death is just awkward that's all, keeping servers running is cheap, defining it by "pulling the plug" is....dumb.

 

Those games still get updates and expansions not what I would call dead, a MMO that IS dead would be Anarchy Online, since it's no longer getting ANY content, it's just drifting.

SWTOR isn't dead, but it sure isn't healthy.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Berret_Ca

SWTOR is in intensive care with the worst health care professionals on Earth in charge of it.

. Sounds like a lot of new content will be coming our way early 2018. I I've seen some saying something about new pvp map or something, but I do not remember who on twitter said believe that.

 

MANY companions will be returning 2018 too.

 

They've talked about the story they are currently writing/about to write involving some Jedi consular companions on twitter.

I loled...looking at the road map the only content that is notable for early 2018 is ONE FP...just no....not a lot...not anything different from this year. Companions....as many as returned this year???

 

I dont care for some new ops bosses...this is worthless and gets boring after you did it a few times on all modes. This too is not content....not having an expansion down on sight is ridiculous and worrying...which are those alive big mmos that doesnt do an expac for a whole year and a half?? Because thats what is looking like here.

I loled...looking at the road map the only content that is notable for early 2018 is ONE FP...just no....not a lot...not anything different from this year. Companions....as many as returned this year???

 

I dont care for some new ops bosses...this is worthless and gets boring after you did it a few times on all modes. This too is not content....not having an expansion down on sight is ridiculous and worrying...which are those alive big mmos that doesnt do an expac for a whole year and a half?? Because thats what is looking like here.

 

The content that will come is:

One FP

One Warzone

One GSF Map

One Operations boss

 

I understand that you don't like all of this new content but your personal judgements aside, your statement that we're only getting an FP before the end of the year is factually false.

 

Expansions didn't come every year in this game either but the biggest problem with SWTOR expansions is that they are too small.

 

I've played plenty of MMOs that didn't get year expansions, so also there I think you're just exaggerating things.

 

It's ok not to like content and not to think it's enough, but please refrain from making up stuff because it actually detracts from your own credibility.

Expansions didn't come every year in this game either but the biggest problem with SWTOR expansions is that they are too small.

 

To be precise, expansions are anywhere between 10 and 20 months apart:

 

• 1.0 - 12/2011
  
• 2.0 - 4/2013 (16 months)
  
• 3.0 - 12/2014 (20 months)
  
• 4.0 - 10/2015 (10 months)
  
• 5.0 - 11/2016 (13 months)
  
• Now - 10/2017 (11 months)

 

For BioWare to have the longest gap between expansions, 6.0 would have to drop in 8/2018 (21 months). I'm personally thinking they're going to wrap up the post-KotET story and the Gods from the Machine operation in first quarter 2018, finish balancing the classes, and put out a new expansion in Spring 2018.

 

The fact is - as you mentioned earlier - BioWare has had a rough year. 5.0's Galactic Command paradigm was very poorly received, and they spent a lot of time and resources tweaking it, and are still making changes to this day. They've had problems with literal game-breaking patches. They've physically migrated servers, and are doing a lot of work behind the scenes to merge the virtual servers. Development on the new operation has been delayed.

 

They probably did have their eyes on a 6.0 release this winter, but there have been setbacks. I believe they still do have plans for another expansion - we know that Charles Boyd wants to do some more class-based storytelling, and the Knights storyline is almost wrapped up, priming the game for a new direction. Like I said, I'm hoping for a 6.0 in April or May 2018. I'd be disappointed if we have to wait until next August. Nay-sayers will probably say next December, if at all.

 

In any event, now is not the time to be writing a dirge or eulogy. This game ain't dead yet.

They ARE in fact dead,except wow i guess and i don't know that legends thing.

Your definition of a games death is just awkward that's all, keeping servers running is cheap, defining it by "pulling the plug" is....dumb.

 

Yeah, defining a dead thing as lifeless is dumb. That's why I defined it as striving, making money and receiving regular updates.

I think the OP is spot on.

 

It will be a year and we will see the story barely progress, with the last 3 installments as flashpoints with a bit of story thrown in between the mobs. With the news Temple is returning I've been taking my Agent through Kofet, now the story telling isn't great. I'm out smarted and betrayed oh look we failed to get the frequence, we failed to get the ship, we failed to kill Arcann, we failed to kill Arcann, we failed to Kill Arcann, we got captured on Iokath. But there was significantly more story and a large story being told.

 

While PvP is very much a sub game, it doesn't exist outside of instanced matches, so much so there seems to be no real MMO feel to it. We capture the turret, oh the match finished so that didn't really happen or mean anything. Oh look we captured the artifact for the glory of the Empire oh no wait nothing was captured and the Empire doesn't know what we are talking about.

 

While the server mergers feel more like a gimmick than anything that will help. Everybody that loses their character name will be annoyed. So imagine your returning after a break, you log in and the first thing you see is an unrecognizable server name, okay then you click to log in and you your told you have to rename your character. Then what do they do when they log in, maybe some of that new content, which under the direction seems to be group content after a heavy round of nerfs. Which isn't going to be what someone logging in after a long break wants, to have people calling them a noob and telling them to learn to play.

 

While the future content of the game is PvP based, (one new warzone and one new GSF map along with nerfs and changes to GSF for PvP) which given how this is an instanced aspect of a game where combat is cool down management hardly where it shines. The other part of the update is group content requiring players to be able to wait around for a group and then invest time in the group content, which isn't necessarily something everyone can do even more so if its not that appealing full of complex mechanics that have to be learnt.

 

While the option to jump in and enjoy the game and being part of a living breathing massive multiplayer experience set in the Star Wars Galaxy is all but ignored. The worlds are static and used almost solely as a lobby between instances, there seems to be nothing done to make it an open world experience where you can play alongside others without being part of a group in an instance. Looking at the other MMO's they offer so much more open world content and don't lock people out from getting credit.

 

So its hard to see what the plan is and why such awful choices keep being made, in almost a year we will see, 3 Operation Bosses, 2 Flashpoints, 1 story chapter, 1 Daily Area, 1 new PvP map and 1 new GSF Map, many delays, many apologies and many nerfs. This hardly seems like at the begining of a year a team could honestly think that would be a good plan but this one does. Thankfully they know this month people will have to subscribe to save their names, just surprised that there wasn't a CC item 'Save Character name' pay 100 bucks and guarantee your name is saved.

Of course it's dead. That's why the servers are up and people are playing it.

 

WoW, Everquest, RIFT, TERA, League of Legends and Ultima Online are dead too. They're all dead.

 

Being online and receiving updates hardly means they are alive or even healthy. With the exception of WoW, all of those MMOs may as well be dead. League of Legends is a MOBA, so I'm not sure why you included that on your list.

 

They are fixing the cancer that was 4.x till 5.x. It takes a while to remove tumors. Game is getting better than what it was. MM Ops now have Components and new boss coming 28th rest by end of year followed by MM. GSF got Balance updates and a map. PvP will get a map. They stopped with the cancerous story chapters and went with story and group content with a solo option. Merges have long been overdue. First time I've been this optimistic since 3.0. I'm also realistic as they squandered all their money on KotFE and KotET. They are rebooting the game back to an MMO slowly but surely. We don't need another expac for them to waste money for a trailer on. Will I get a bucket load of content no but I will get more Ops bosses and other MMO content which makes me enthusiastic. It's not going anywhere for awhile as there's no need to shutdown. As much as the complains about nerfs it was also overdue. Killing Swtor would require another 4.0 and any Dev foolish enough to do that hasn't learned a thing or wants to kill the game again. Keith actually plays the game and knows that is asinine.

 

That's definitely your opinion. My opinion is that a single raid boss every four months is not what even raiders asked for. My opinion is that one new warzone map is not adequate content for PvPers. My opinion is that most players already transferred servers years ago and barely anyone is left on the dead servers, such as Prophecy of the Five.

 

I understand not everybody was thrilled about the story-focused direction of KOTFE and the initial launch of KOTET. Personally, I found it to be the best content to be released in SWTOR since launch. Outside of the original class stories, SWTOR was never a spectacular MMO. My views have not changed in that regard either. Better to focus on what you do well, rather than what you do poorly. Again, that's just my opinion. We don't have to agree.

 

No, it's not dead. They are fixing A LOT. They've devoted their resources to this server merge. Sounds like a lot of new content will be coming our way early 2018. I believe I've seen some saying something about new pvp map or something, but I do not remember who on twitter said that.

 

MANY companions will be returning 2018 too.

 

They've talked about the story they are currently writing/about to write involving some Jedi consular companions on twitter.

 

Based on the Road map, there is only one new story FP and two raid bosses coming early 2018. Nothing else has been announced at this time. Companions returning is all well and good, but will they be returning in story chapters, or daily zone updates? Personally, I'd prefer companions being re-introduced be brought back in a compelling way. I don't see that happening based off current trends.

 

I don't think it's dead, but it's certainly not in a healthy phase.

 

With no new content even on a distant horizon, i can see the game dropping to its' lowest point ever.

 

We need more people to join for group content that those who leave because of no story, i'm very skeptical of that happening.

 

Agree to disagree. All of KOTET, since its initial launch, has been dedicated to "group content." That's why we have received uprisings, a new flashpoint, a new daily area, and a new raid. Based on the fact that this game seems to be more dead than its ever been before, I don't think the focus on group content is actually working. I think many who actually were advocates of group content left years ago when KOTFE launched. Truth be told, adding a couple raid bosses here and there or a few new flashpoints is not going to fix what is wrong with this game.

 

I'd say the game is not completely dead, but it's not all that alive either. It's like a patient in a hospice who has suffered medical brain death but they're keeping the body alive with life support machines in order to keep being able to cash the patient's Social Security checks and charge exorbitant amounts for minor medical procedures (read: subscriptions and Cartel Market purchases).

 

Could it come fully back to life? Amazing events like that have been known to happen, people waking up after decades long comas... but it's an exceptionally rare happenstance. So I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

Agreed. With no mention of any sort of expansion even in the foreseeable future, and nothing in the way of substantial content for the next six months, I'm not optimistic about where this game is going. I'd love to be proven wrong if BioWare is working on their largest and most ambitious expansion yet, but I seriously doubt it.

 

The content that will come is:

One FP

One Warzone

One GSF Map

One Operations boss

 

I understand that you don't like all of this new content but your personal judgements aside, your statement that we're only getting an FP before the end of the year is factually false.

 

Expansions didn't come every year in this game either but the biggest problem with SWTOR expansions is that they are too small.

 

I've played plenty of MMOs that didn't get year expansions, so also there I think you're just exaggerating things.

 

It's ok not to like content and not to think it's enough, but please refrain from making up stuff because it actually detracts from your own credibility.

 

It's worth pointing out he was referring to "only content that is notable for early 2018." He's not referring to what is coming for the rest of this year. From what BioWare has stated, only a story FP and two new raid bosses are planned for early 2018 at this time. There could be more as we get closer to 2018, but that's all we know at this time.

 

Also, it only makes sense to compare future SWTOR expansions to previous SWTOR expansions. We've had an expansion every single year since ROTHC. We didn't have an expansion in 2012 because the game launched at the end of December 2011. This game has never had expansions comparable to WoW in scale (new areas, new classes, new game features, graphical overhauls, etc.), so having a new expansion every other year wouldn't make a lot of sense based on precedent.

 

To be precise, expansions are anywhere between 10 and 20 months apart:

 

• 1.0 - 12/2011
  
• 2.0 - 4/2013 (16 months)
  
• 3.0 - 12/2014 (20 months)
  
• 4.0 - 10/2015 (10 months)
  
• 5.0 - 11/2016 (13 months)
  
• Now - 10/2017 (11 months)

 

For BioWare to have the longest gap between expansions, 6.0 would have to drop in 8/2018 (21 months). I'm personally thinking they're going to wrap up the post-KotET story and the Gods from the Machine operation in first quarter 2018, finish balancing the classes, and put out a new expansion in Spring 2018.

 

The fact is - as you mentioned earlier - BioWare has had a rough year. 5.0's Galactic Command paradigm was very poorly received, and they spent a lot of time and resources tweaking it, and are still making changes to this day. They've had problems with literal game-breaking patches. They've physically migrated servers, and are doing a lot of work behind the scenes to merge the virtual servers. Development on the new operation has been delayed.

 

They probably did have their eyes on a 6.0 release this winter, but there have been setbacks. I believe they still do have plans for another expansion - we know that Charles Boyd wants to do some more class-based storytelling, and the Knights storyline is almost wrapped up, priming the game for a new direction. Like I said, I'm hoping for a 6.0 in April or May 2018. I'd be disappointed if we have to wait until next August. Nay-sayers will probably say next December, if at all.

 

In any event, now is not the time to be writing a dirge or eulogy. This game ain't dead yet.

 

While we could receive an expansion in the spring, that hasn't happened since ROTHC in 2013. Releasing an expansion during the holiday season is generally the best time to maximize sales. I'd be happy if we do get an expansion Spring 2018, but I'm not counting on it.

 

Obviously, this game isn't literally dead yet. However, the current state of affairs does not fill me with confidence for this game's future either. At the very least, it would be nice to know if some sort of expansion was actually in the works. We can assume there is a 6.0, and that certainly seemed to be the implication after 5.0 released, but we certainly haven't heard anything concrete about it since then.

 

If I'm wrong about any knowledge regarding 6.0, please feel free to inform me of what you know.

 

So its hard to see what the plan is and why such awful choices keep being made, in almost a year we will see, 3 Operation Bosses, 2 Flashpoints, 1 story chapter, 1 Daily Area, 1 new PvP map and 1 new GSF Map, many delays, many apologies and many nerfs. This hardly seems like at the begining of a year a team could honestly think that would be a good plan but this one does. Thankfully they know this month people will have to subscribe to save their names, just surprised that there wasn't a CC item 'Save Character name' pay 100 bucks and guarantee your name is saved.

Agreed. I think 2017 has been the worst showing of content for this game to date. I honestly can't fathom why BioWare thought this alleged focus on "group content" was going to be a massive success. We've received scraps, and if this is the future of this game, I don't see myself sticking around for long.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Aowin