I think that asking for smaller instances is a reasonable request. It hurts no one and provides benefits to many. The groupers still get their coveted "pops" - instance limits don't affect them in the slightest - while the rest of us get some much needed breathing room and the decrease in stress that goes with it.

I would add to this getting rid of the "PVP" instances altogether and using that instance as another permanently opened instance (and add one to Coruscant and Drommund Kaas). Nobody is in them to PVP anyway so why not re-purpose the resources used for them for something useful.

Nope. It's not anti-social. It's a way of playing you don't like, and you've decided to label it. It's beyond rude to feel that random strangers are obligated in any way to play with you or shave time off your game. You're not entitled to groups. If another player is there first, they get the kill first, and you get to wait. If you can't wait five minutes while everyone takes their turn, come back later. Grownups get this and don't stamp their feet about it.

 

The options available obviously don't work, since people other than myself are complaining about them and many have given up in the dailies and certain heroics.

What is it you don't get? I'm a solo player too or did you ignore that part of my posts after you chose to be personally insulted by the term anti-social? Your refusal to group up with other players to accomplish the same goal is anti-social behavior. I haven't once said I don't like the solo playstyle. Yet you focus on that instead of the alternatives and advice you've been given throughout the last few pages of this thread. You''d rather turn it into being a victim.

I've been giving you alternatives to the objectives competition, as have others, and explained the reasons behind them. But you are hell-bent. It's not entitlement. It's the norm. Not grouping to complete quest objectives is outside the social norms and you want the community and/or BW to cater to you. I hate objective stealing too. So I group up in certain conditions so I don't have to worry they're going to steal my "turn". CloudCastle described it pretty well above. On fast respawns I wait my turn because there's no need to group, but I won't deny someone who wants to. To do so is rude.

You have alternatives to choose from. You just don't like any of them. You choose not to group. You choose not to switch instances. You choose to quit doing dailies. You choose to make it harder than it needs to be. I agree objective ninjas are a problem that only BW can fix with game design, but refusal to accept any of the current alternatives is completely on you.

I believe 75 is still far too large a number to wait for a new instance. On regular planets it should be no higher than 50, and on smaller daily areas, no higher than 20-25.

On CZ-19 the other day there was only 13 and it was enough for it to be, as someone else put it, a clusterf*ck. I had to switch to the PvP instance where there was only 4 people to get anything accomplished.

On CZ-19 the other day there was only 13 and it was enough for it to be, as someone else put it, a clusterf*ck. I had to switch to the PvP instance where there was only 4 people to get anything accomplished.

Before the merge, I found it to be problematic with more than 6 due to the limited number of droids for the one daily. The other issue that arises is that both factions are present (unlike Black Hole) so once you get into the lower area with the kolto and biotoxin (and the droid for the heroic - which does spawn pretty frequently and is not generally a problem unless someone is farming it for CXP), there are suddenly twice as many people competing for the very limited resources and you can't group with opposite faction players.

Nope. It's not anti-social. It's a way of playing you don't like, and you've decided to label it. It's beyond rude to feel that random strangers are obligated in any way to play with you or shave time off your game. You're not entitled to groups. If another player is there first, they get the kill first, and you get to wait. If you can't wait five minutes while everyone takes their turn, come back later. Grownups get this and don't stamp their feet about it.

 

The options available obviously don't work, since people other than myself are complaining about them and many have given up in the dailies and certain heroics.

It can be antisocial. If the solo player gets to an objective second, declines an invite from the person who got there first, but then patiently waits for that person to clear the objective first...I'd agree they aren't being antisocial. They just don't want to group and are waiting their turn, as they should.

That said however you have quite a few players who decline invites and then try to beat the person or group that sent the invite to an objective. Spamming AOEs over spawn points, trying to get an attack off first if the boss is already there, interacting with an objective point when the group or person that sent an invite is clearing mobs in front of it, or hitting speed boosts to get to an objective first if they weren't in range yet. That sort of behavior is most certainly douchey and antisocial.

I would add to this getting rid of the "PVP" instances altogether and using that instance as another permanently opened instance (and add one to Coruscant and Drommund Kaas). Nobody is in them to PVP anyway so why not re-purpose the resources used for them for something useful.

That would be unfair to PVPers.

The PVP instances do get used, it's just that most of the world PVP is organized between guilds rather than spontaneous encounters between solo players that are questing or grinding heroics. Star Forge had a large world PVP battle on Oricon recently for instance and there were organized world PVP events on Ebon Hawk at least once a month before that. People would no longer be able to do that if the PVP instances vanished. It would also break the Gree Event since some quests can only be completed in the PVP instance on Ilum.

Besides, I rather like the PVP instances being empty or nearly so. It means when I'm doing heroics solo I don't have to compete with anyone. Making it a PVE instance would just fill it with 20 people who were too scared to venture there before. It also gives me something to do when I visit Yavin for archaeology mats. I can kill the credit sellers' farm bots repeatedly to break up the monotony of gathering.

TMaking it a PVE instance would just fill it with 20 people who were too scared to venture there before.

This is true. Just making it another PvE instance would mean it's another instance full of objective stealing.

The PVP instances do get used, it's just that most of the world PVP is organized between guilds rather than spontaneous encounters between solo players that are questing or grinding heroics.

Well how about this then, voluntary only flagging in all zones. You cannot attack or be attacked unless you have already flagged yourself as PVP (no involuntary flagging like there was before). Then the PVPers and non-PVPers could share the instance (for that matter all instances). Then the "overpopulated" areas could be spread out a little relieving some of the "crowding" issue. Would be bad for the mat farmers though since they would suddenly have to share mats with more than 1 or 2 other people.

This is true. Just making it another PvE instance would mean it's another instance full of objective stealing.

True, but they would then be spread out between two instances, reducing your chances of encountering them

On CZ-19 the other day there was only 13 and it was enough for it to be, as someone else put it, a clusterf*ck. I had to switch to the PvP instance where there was only 4 people to get anything accomplished.

BW would need to take into account the size of the daily area and hopefully not use a one size fits all instance cap. CZ is really small, and with any dual faction zone the number of people there could actually be double what it reads. They'd need to take into account some kind of balance between a per faction instance cap and a total area cap. CZ should have the smallest cap of all.

It can be antisocial. If the solo player gets to an objective second, declines an invite from the person who got there first, but then patiently waits for that person to clear the objective first...I'd agree they aren't being antisocial. They just don't want to group and are waiting their turn, as they should.

 

That said however you have quite a few players who decline invites and then try to beat the person or group that sent the invite to an objective. Spamming AOEs over spawn points, trying to get an attack off first if the boss is already there, interacting with an objective point when the group or person that sent an invite is clearing mobs in front of it, or hitting speed boosts to get to an objective first if they weren't in range yet. That sort of behavior is most certainly douchey and antisocial.

I don't think anyone likes people who kill steal or ninja - they're not playing well with others and their behavior could be labeled anti-social. But I'm not advocating that. Refusing to group on its own isn't anti-social and it doesn't mean you're going to do those sorts of things; it just means you don't want to group and would prefer to do the content on your own.

I have no issue waiting my turn to get an objective, and if everyone else respects the queue, that works.

Oh you mean the ones you invite that decline. Yea that really works doesn't it. I have always been the type to send out an invite for someone in the area, especially on DK, Cor and Taris, to join my group and when we were on Ebon Hawk it worked but now hahahahahahahahahaha they decline.

It works if you get someone that was from Ebon Hawk prior.

After six years of no change do you think we'll suddenly get a change? Competition for objectives are ingrained into zone design.

Yes, quite a few changes have come that folks indicated would NEVER be seen in the game, and even some that were contrary to original design intentions.

The "this is an MMO!" rallying cry is so cliched, old and tired that it's not even worth taking time to argue it.

This for the win too. Theirs many more ways than 1 to play an MMO. I dont want to be in a group in PVE stuff. I definatly dont to be forced into it.

And no, asking someone to potentially get ganked because the other instance is too crowded is not a reasonable solution. Asking someone to run in a pack because there are too many people in an area is not a reasonable solution. Making more instances, lowering respawn times or putting more areas behind a green curtain is.

More instances is good. Id even say to have a solo pve instance seperate the group pve instance. increase the incentative to be in a group. lower the exp gain for the solo peeps. sounds groovy to me:)

I don't mind waiting, not even a little - but not everyone in this game understands the concept of waiting their turn. If they did, this discussion wouldn't exist (case in point, the creeper I mentioned in Yavin who was deliberately kill stealing, and the group in CZ-198 someone else mentioned).

 

And groups don't help with that when the instance is too crowded anyway. Now you've got ten groups fighting over the same goals, etc.

I have no issue waiting my turn to get an objective, and if everyone else respects the queue, that works.

I used to be like that - antisocial. I used to be the guy that would decline group invites thinking I was being polite by waiting my turn, or thinking I can do this on my own I don't need anyone's help. But what would happen is a third person would come up and accept the invite and a fourth person. Then the boss would spawn and they'd kill it in seconds and be on their way. And I'd still be standing there waiting for the next spawn thinking "Damn, they're already done. They got here after me and they're already moving on while I'm still twiddling my thumbs". And what I didn't realize by not sending invites I was making other people wait longer unnecessarily too. That was rude of me wasn't it? So I started accepting the invites. Then I started sending the invites. I haven't had problems with spawn ninjas, wait times have been negligible and less anxiety ever since. And this was years ago when Black Hole was new. You may not see it, but I tell you these things to help you. You'll be better off.

Yes, quite a few changes have come that folks indicated would NEVER be seen in the game, and even some that were contrary to original design intentions.

Well, ever heard the saying - you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets filled first. - ? I'll be the pragmatist and play the game the way it is currently designed rather than not participate and hope something changes some day.

I used to be like that - antisocial. I used to be the guy that would decline group invites thinking I was being polite by waiting my turn, or thinking I can do this on my own I don't need anyone's help. But what would happen is a third person would come up and accept the invite and a fourth person. Then the boss would spawn and they'd kill it in seconds and be on their way. And I'd still be standing there waiting for the next spawn thinking "Damn, they're already done. They got here after me and they're already moving on while I'm still twiddling my thumbs". And what I didn't realize by not sending invites I was making other people wait longer unnecessarily too. That was rude of me wasn't it? So I started accepting the invites. Then I started sending the invites. I haven't had problems with spawn ninjas, wait times have been negligible and less anxiety ever since. And this was years ago when Black Hole was new. You may not see it, but I tell you these things to help you. You'll be better off.

Sounds like me, the antisocial part. I usually accept invites when I'm waiting for a mob to spawn, but I never send any. If I'm there first and someone comes by, it's usually them sending an invite or I go into "challenge accepted" mode.

I don't really care if people call me anti social, it's what I am in game!

I used to be like that - antisocial. I used to be the guy that would decline group invites thinking I was being polite by waiting my turn, or thinking I can do this on my own I don't need anyone's help. But what would happen is a third person would come up and accept the invite and a fourth person. Then the boss would spawn and they'd kill it in seconds and be on their way. And I'd still be standing there waiting for the next spawn thinking "Damn, they're already done. They got here after me and they're already moving on while I'm still twiddling my thumbs". And what I didn't realize by not sending invites I was making other people wait longer unnecessarily too. That was rude of me wasn't it? So I started accepting the invites. Then I started sending the invites. I haven't had problems with spawn ninjas, wait times have been negligible and less anxiety ever since. And this was years ago when Black Hole was new. You may not see it, but I tell you these things to help you. You'll be better off.

At this point I think you don't understand what that word means, or you wouldn't be using it to describe others with a different play style. You do realize I'm not interested in playing the game like you, right? I will say this one more time: I. Will. Not. Group. For. Heroics. I will not group with random strangers. Period. And no, it's not the answer to overcrowding. Instancing areas is. You don't worry about ninjas behind green curtains because they can't interfere.

And no, it's not rude to expect others to wait their turn, just as you have. It's life. It's rude to expect others to team up with you randomly and to start throwing labels at them when they won't.

End of convo.

Well, ever heard the saying - you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one gets filled first. - ? I'll be the pragmatist and play the game the way it is currently designed rather than not participate and hope something changes some day.

Sure....but that still attempts, perhaps not intentionally, to discredit those that will request features that some deem "impossible", though it has been proven on multiple occasions that changes can and do happen despite prior comments from devs.

The point is, there is nothing that stands against you making any kind of statement, but a statement that something "will not change" (paraphrasing of course) is really not a qualified or genuine statement that one can made with any credibility IMO.

At this point I think you don't understand what that word means, or you wouldn't be using it to describe others with a different play style. You do realize I'm not interested in playing the game like you, right? You're not being helpful; you're trying to force others into your playstyle. Nope. I. Will. Not. Group. Period. And no, it's not the answer to overcrowding. Instancing areas is. You don't worry about ninjas behind green curtains because they can't interfere.

 

End of convo.

No, I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. It's advice. And I'm not labeling a different playstyle as it's the same as mine. I'm guessing someone has used the term antisocial to insult you. It wasn't me. I use it as a definition. You avoid social interaction, ergo antisocial. You're hostile to advice and unreasonable. And yes it is an answer. It's a multiplayer game. It's designed that way on purpose. You want to go to a pizza parlor and order a cheeseburger and complain about it. I hate to say it, but the problem is with you not everyone else.

Sure....but that still attempts, perhaps not intentionally, to discredit those that will request features that some deem "impossible", though it has been proven on multiple occasions that changes can and do happen despite prior comments from devs.

 

The point is, there is nothing that stands against you making any kind of statement, but a statement that something "will not change" (paraphrasing of course) is really not a qualified or genuine statement that one can made with any credibility IMO.

Sure, feel free to ask for a change. I don't expect one though. And given the person's hostility towards the alternatives I was trying to intimate a necessity to try something they assumed they wouldn't like.

No, I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. It's advice. And I'm not labeling a different playstyle as it's the same as mine. I'm guessing someone has used the term antisocial to insult you. It wasn't me. i use it as a definition. YOu avoid social interaction, ergo antisocial. You're hostile to advice and unreasonable. I hate to say it, but the problem is with you not everyone else.

Actually, "antisocial" means you're behaving in a way that hurts other people, you're against social norms or society. The word you're looking for is asocial, which refers to people who have no interest in social behavior.

I think "the instance is being emptied" means that the server doesn't consider there to be enough people to merit more than one. Go to fleet or somewhere really busy and you will see a live 2nd instance.

This is probably the symptom of a real issue. The server seems to be consolidating when it should be expanding.

Actually, "antisocial" means you're behaving in a way that hurts other people, you're against social norms or society. The word you're looking for is asocial, which refers to people who have no interest in social behavior.

Thanks for the correction. A thousand pardons. Though I do think not grouping is going against the social norm.