So you can beat the bad stealthers (aka your counter classes aka you are better than them) but you cant beat the good one (aka they are better than you) so the classes are overpowered.

 

Its nothing personal and I'm sorry if my comment hurt you but the post I quoted was sent by the super amazingly retarded side of your personality.

 

You clearly stated that you can beat some because you are better then the,=m and cant beat some because they are better than.

 

Have you ever played any sport? If the answer is yes, I bet every player/team that was able to beat you/your team were all cheaters

I was never good at any sports I played so when I lost is was my fault.

When I get killed by someone simply because they have a class that sucks at everything except trying to kill me that is just dumb. Every class should be able to counter every class. My gunslinger doesnt excel at any specific class, it excels at putting out amazing dps on people. If that person decides to come and kill me I have a few escapes and stuns but for the most part I am just meant to DPS. If a melee person walks up to me and I do not move, they will kill me because that is what they are good at. But as a good player I know how to get away from them, but they still accomplished their goal of getting me out of that battle. I hate it in games when I get killed by something that I have no control over. And having a class that is made to simply kill me and be annoying is just dumb. Stealthers have no real roles other than stealth capping from newbs and singling out weak enemies to kill them. Their purpose may be helpful in some situations but it is annoying having anything in game that makes me die just for playing a class I want to play.

A stun out of stealth that knocks me out for 4 seconds seems to give me less than 20% resolve.

It can't exist. Out of stealth stuns are just the same that the other Advanced Class also gets.

If you don't have any problems with CC from Sages/Sorcerers and Snipers/Gunslingers, then you can't have problems with stealthers since it's the same stun they use.

I play a shadow as my main and I will tell you the best thing to keep me from going stealth. Hit me with a bleed so even if I go into stealth I will come out on the next tick of the bleed. That is what a good player does. I am full WH and squishy (I play infiltration and think balanced is for wimps) and only with a good healer am I indestructible.

You mean bleeds like that one Mara spec that no one plays anymore?

It can't exist. Out of stealth stuns are just the same that the other Advanced Class also gets.

If you don't have any problems with CC from Sages/Sorcerers and Snipers/Gunslingers, then you can't have problems with stealthers since it's the same stun they use.

I worde that wrong, I meant a stun that pops the stealther out of stealth.

Whatever operatives shotgun blast is I think. Its one of the stuns they have to be in stealth for but its not an 8second mez.

Stealth classes, Are you kidding me?

Your moaning because stealth classes are getting a jump on you.

Well i will say this you need to be more observant, for starters your a gunslinger correct? well you are basically a turret which makes you an easy target for them. I know i always go for snipers, sorcs, and other turret based classes who do a lot of casting.

I worde that wrong, I meant a stun that pops the stealther out of stealth.

Whatever operatives shotgun blast is I think. Its one of the stuns they have to be in stealth for but its not an 8second mez.

So then, this stun lasts 2s only. It's why it builds half the resolve a 4s stun would. (40% of the resolve bar on a target that not been controlled before)

I was never good at any sports I played so when I lost is was my fault.

When I get killed by someone simply because they have a class that sucks at everything except trying to kill me that is just dumb. Every class should be able to counter every class.

Ever heard of rock, paper, scissors? Without these sort of AC matchups, you have everyone as basically the same class, and more importantly you have game imbalance. GS will feast on Juggs, Maras, PTs, and most other ranged DPS for that matter, on top of being insane node defenders as Sab/Eng and general utilitarians. So therefore you have one weakness: stealthers. Either figure out how to more effectively fight stealthers or accept you have a bad matchup there and move on by getting your teammates that have good matchups (i.e. PTs, Maras, Juggs) vs stealthers to help peel for you when needed.

To use another example: I haven't touched the game for 5yrs, but Magic: the Gathering follows the exact same principles for balance. You may have great matchups vs 80% of the meta, but you just get absolutely boned by one deck/archetype. You can either shore up your matchup by improving your deck and SB/tightening up your play, or just accept that your matchup blows and move on. It's a similar (albeit on a much less complex level) concept with class balance in SWTOR.

SWTOR is a team-based PvP. Balancing ACs on matchups as you're proposing (OMG NERF STEALTHORZ THEY OWNZ RDPS) would be awful for the metagame, especially come Ranked and if they ever implement them, Arena-style modes.

So then, this stun lasts 2s only.

Actually it lasts 1.5s only...

Here's a short video I made about the stuns/opener that a scoundrel uses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32pQSOuSrZA

I've not made videos before, editing is probably terrible.

Now you still wanna tell me you can be stunned 3 times in a row? (besides waiting 6+ seconds AFTER the stun ends for resolve to lower)

I think this is quite possibly the funniest PvP OP EVER.

I propose Bioware require people to pass some sort of common sense exam before being allowed to post anything on the Forums.

How about we just let the OP into warzones with a bunch of people only allowed to use Legacy Punching skills. Sigh, he would probably complain that Jab hits to hard.

As mostly a sniper player but with lots of ours into PT, Sorc, Op, i can say that Snipers do need to have stealthers as a counter. And I am completely ok with them focusing me and even winning some duels. What I don't like however is their easy mode at defending and delaying the caps. Unless the stealther is being ganked by stealthers himself, he can easily keep the point from capping at least 25-30 secs thanks to mind trap. It really slows down the game, gives the defending team a huge advantage.

Couple this with absolutely stupid alderaan speeders bringing you to the cap and you've got easy mode defense.

Assassin pops out of stealth ---> Facetank the first knock down.

 

Flashbang (aoe instant mez)

 

Move away and cover *before* the mezz wears off.

 

Legshot

 

Entrench+Damage rotation.

 

If they come after you again, Cover Pulse. ( KB. Not sure the smuggler ability name, I'm a sniper.)

 

It's also a good idea to get in the habit of dropping orbital strike around you, especially if the stealther is getting low on HP. A lucky tick of orbital strike could knock them out of stealth. Also, Covering Fire is a bit lackluster for damage, but it is an area target ability that could pop them out of stealth.

 

Because entrench is on a -very- short CD, I'd use it liberally. If I suspect a stealther near me (though not when I'm solo, better to save it) I might even pop it just in case. Worst case scenario, they see it wait for it to wear off (Still buying you some time to ask for back up if feeling vunerable.) Best case (and I laugh when this happens) they waste their opener/stun and I KB them instantly.

Every stealth player knows about entrench.

The gunslinger/sniper class at 50 is very hard. The immobility of the class with its defenses makes it extremely easy to counter. Unharassed its got very strong DPS, but it tends to create white barred killing machines or is very easy to manipulate. I am currently enjoying madness with maul.

Creeping terror with maul is so great. The damage is very subtle and plays into killing these self rooters. I DoT you up and give you the choice. Break entrench for safety or I come in and out on you and punish you.

If you want to see an OP class run the 3/7/31 assassin. I am ok and just learning the subtles of the class. It's going to require changes to deception again once the DPS assassins realize what the full tree of madness along with minimal points in deception to get duplicity.

If you setup correctly there isn't a thing a sniper/gs can do against a sin/shadow running madness besides die. And when we move in for the kill nothing is preventing your almost 100% death.

It plays like the old operative Dirty fighting build that was nerfed. The overcharge saber running madness for DoTing is absurd. Its instant cast and cost next to zero force for my to apply it to everyone and it stacks with my ability to apply 3 other DoTs with Death field and critical ticks healing me and restoring force.

I've been running this since I got upset at the mad maul spec guide writer. Once people realize creeping terror with its 30m range is leg shot/low slash in our tree they will want it, beyond the descent damage it produces its the setup to really hurt someone. Its a full 2 second root on a 9 second cooldown doing over its 18 second timer internal damage over 2k and that is before crit rolls and death field. Combined with discharge and creeping terror.

Some simple math

discharge 3k * 100% overcharged saber = 6k / 18s = 333.3 per tick deathmark +20% = 399 * 10 = 3999

3 of those 10 ticks roughly will crit.

399 * (78% surge + 30% crit bonus) 108% =2394

2394 + 2793 + 2664 conservatively is 7851 damage over 18 seconds with only 3 critical hits. It will get mitigated due to armor.

Now stack the other dot potential the melee damage. The huge amount of CC.

THere is no viable defense you have against that an assassin using DoTs other than to attempt to out DPS them and that means I am going to LoS you and if you break entrench I have a 30m root I can apply opening you up to nasty things.

Gunslinger is just not able given its defense able to counter a stealth class that has access to nearly identical range of attack skills that produce damage while your opponent runs around and you cannot setup your big hitters.

I can face tank you now in darkness with deception since I can get my mitigation up.

This player has a point. I'd like to see gunslingers/snipers have more range. At least that way a stealth player is out of position if he wants to focus on the enemies back row.

I cannot speak to other stealth players, but you will not beat me as a sniper if I can start the fight. You have no way to cleanse the dots and your CC immunity requires you to hold a position that lets me kill just popping out and tagging you.

I remember GS and why I bailed. Its got its place, but needs a lot more survivability to escape than it has. Right now it plays like a turret. Good players want you to entrench.

I like it. Root yourself right in that spot. I hope you like it. Your going to die there very soon.

Nice post above. I really don't understand what is the people's problem with creeping terror and why they consider it underpowered. It is a wonderful top tier ability with huge potential.

As for Assassin with Sniper, well to put it simply: if the assassin player has a sniper alt and knows all its abilities, there is really nothing the sniper can do to win the matchup. Most of my duel wins with assassins is simply because the assassin somewhere messed up or did something stupid.

Of course if i catch them busy with my team mates and their force cloak is on CD, they are dead 100%. No force shroud or deflection is going to save them. I think they should get rid of extra internal damage resistance for tank sins, tanks need to stay vulenerable to this sort of damage. 19% resistance is too much for a damage type that is supposed to bypass armor resistances.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32pQSOuSrZA

Good job.

Though given how bad scrappers/conc ops have it, I sometimes think keeping other classes as clueless as possible about how ours works is a valuable weapon.

Just don't mention how often we get to fly while stealthed. We don't want them nerfing the cd on that.

And really don't tell them about the supermodels buff. Just keep saying they couldn't see us because we were invisibly guarding the node. *taps nose*

Actually it lasts 1.5s only...

Mine is 2s

Mine is 2s

Well he was talking about the operative one when stating it was 4s :

I worde that wrong, I meant a stun that pops the stealther out of stealth.

Whatever operatives shotgun blast is I think. Its one of the stuns they have to be in stealth for but its not an 8second mez.

So, *again* : no it's not 4s it's only 1.5s which is the time of a GCD btw...

Just wanted to explain why I said 2s...

On a side note, maybe Operatives and Scrappers should ask to be on par.

Just wanted to explain why I said 2s...

Nah don't worry, was saying that in jest, I knew what you meant, I have a shadow as well !

On a side note, maybe Operatives and Scrappers should ask to be on par.

Not really no, not on that at least, well that's my point of view. What I mean is that there are other areas where we need buffs for sure compared to other classes but I don't feel K.O./Jarring strike is one of them.

To me the most annoying change, apart from the loss of the giggle which was only warranted for heal specs, certainly not for scrapper/concealment spec, and to this day am still mad at them for that, is the 3s more on backblast/backstab cd : it was fine at 9s, they really murdered both ACs, both for PvE and PvP when they upped it at 12s. We'd be fine and back on balanced (not best, not worst) from least played AC/Spec (scrapper/concealment) in operations just with that really.

If you want to see an OP class run the 3/7/31 assassin. I am ok and just learning the subtles of the class. It's going to require changes to deception again once the DPS assassins realize what the full tree of madness along with minimal points in deception to get duplicity.

Madness OP?

Ever heard of rock, paper, scissors? ...class balance in SWTOR.

So... what are sages/sorcs a hard counter to?

there is no good reliable counter to any stealth class that stuns you while they are stealthed.

Nobody can stun you while stealthed. They can stun you from stealth, after which they lose stealth.

As for getting 50% of your health taken away, part of that is gear, part of that is you not knowing how to kite, and part of that is you not using your cc breaker at the right time. Ops front load their damage so CC break asap if you're in BM. Shadows/sins are back loaded damage and extremely predictable. If you use your CC breaker on spike then yeah, you're going to lose a ton of health when they stun you after. Finally, you probably suck at using your kbs--don't spam it like a retard as soon as you take damage, position yourself so that you knock them into hazards or other players.

~Eggs

Edit: how the fark is this 13 pages...

So... what are sages/sorcs a hard counter to?

In the current state? Pretty much any melee class with the needs-to-be-properly-tuned bubble-stun. Ordinarily? Madness/Balance can serve as a solid counter to Sniper/GS (more likely a soft counter, though). But the thing with Sorcs/Sages is that they have a very broad kit that covers a lot of bases: they're going to match up decently vs most, but they're not going to have overwhelming odds vs any, and likewise most classes won't have overwhelming odds vs them.

There's the notion of hard counters (aka if I go against my hard counter, I lose 100% of the time unless they're stupid), and the notion of soft counters (I will lose more than half, but less than 100% of the time, which allows me to win given that I make the correct plays to outsmart my opponent). Sages/Sorcs usually fall into the latter category, being soft counters to ACs or having soft counters.