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The problem with a lot of classes in PVP


Delani

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A lot of classes in PvP are too vulnerable once they are hardstunned. They are forced to take a lot of damage and unless they have breaker they cannot escape. Since Bioware has removed stun DR on a lot of classes, we (as a community) need a new alternative to adjust to this stun lock meta. One suggestion to fixing this is allowing players to avoid hardstuns by adding in extra movement abilities or giving every class a similar dcd that Operatives/Snipers have which allows them to avoid hardstuns if they time their abilitiy right ( their roll abilitiy). This would fix the issue but would make the game too monotonous. Another suggestion is giving all players the abiltiy to choose whether or not they want to take a stun DR set bonus (2-piece) or amplifier in replacement of something else. Again would help with the problem but is boring and does not make the combat/gameplay more exciting. Another suggestion is giving weaker classes in PvP; such as DPS Powertech/Vanguard, Assassins/Shadows, Sorcerers/Sages more movement and creative evade abilities that allow them to avoid hardstuns and escape/prevent pin-downs. One thing that I was thinking about is the abilitiy to clone your toon or something that allows sorcerers to place LOS objects while in a warzone (probably reaching but it is creative).

 

We need creative and alternative ideas in order to combat the stun meta which can ruin a PvP experience for a lot of players.

Edited by Delani
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A lot of classes in PvP are too vulnerable once they are hardstunned. They are forced to take a lot of damage and unless they have breaker they cannot escape. Since Bioware has removed stun DR on a lot of classes, we (as a community) need a new alternative to adjust to this stun lock meta. One suggestion to fixing this is allowing players to avoid hardstuns by adding in extra movement abilities or giving every class a similar dcd that Operatives/Snipers have which allows them to avoid hardstuns if they time their abilitiy right ( their roll abilitiy). This would fix the issue but would make the game too monotonous. Another suggestion is giving all players the abiltiy to choose whether or not they want to take a stun DR set bonus (2-piece) or amplifier in replacement of something else. Again would help with the problem but is boring and does not make the combat/gameplay more exciting. Another suggestion is giving weaker classes in PvP; such as DPS Powertech/Vanguard, Assassins/Shadows, Sorcerers/Sages more movement and creative evade abilities that allow them to avoid hardstuns and escape/prevent pin-downs. One thing that I was thinking about is the abilitiy to clone your toon or something that allows sorcerers to place LOS objects while in a warzone (probably reaching but it is creative).

 

We need creative and alternative ideas in order to adapt to the stun meta which can ruin a PvP experience for a lot of players.

 

The whole point of being hardstunned is to make you vulnerable. The alternative to overcome this vulnerability has been since the game first launched, an ability called GUARD (usually from tanks), heals and the big surprise, CC them(AKA YOUR TEAMATES)!

 

Since the start of the game, they have also added abilities that dodge hardstuns, operative roll, sniper entrench, 6 seconds immunity from stuns for mara and sins (if they chose the utility for it). On top of all this they have the resolve system which after being cced basically twice in a row, you get white barred and cannot be stunned for the duration of it.

 

This is a team game after all, if you refuse to play it that way in pvp, that's your own problem, not the games.

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This is a team game after all, if you refuse to play it that way in pvp, that's your own problem, not the games.

 

This. We can’t make every single dps class an immortal behemoth just because people don’t like getting stunned in regs or solos

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The whole point of being hardstunned is to make you vulnerable. The alternative to overcome this vulnerability has been since the game first launched, an ability called GUARD (usually from tanks), heals and the big surprise, CC them(AKA YOUR TEAMATES)!

 

Since the start of the game, they have also added abilities that dodge hardstuns, operative roll, sniper entrench, 6 seconds immunity from stuns for mara and sins (if they chose the utility for it). On top of all this they have the resolve system which after being cced basically twice in a row, you get white barred and cannot be stunned for the duration of it.

 

This is a team game after all, if you refuse to play it that way in pvp, that's your own problem, not the games.

 

I understand your perspective and agree, but stun locking certain classes in the game will ensure death and is imho too strong and occurs too much. The reality of this game is that we need more avenues within the combat system so that people can have a diversified experience and so they believe they can have a “out” to every situation. Since stunlocking as you said is so strong and is supposed to make the target vulnerable, it shouldn’t be as common as it is. Since BioWare is introducing this new idea of “play your way”, I thought this would be the perfect time to mention this because what makes certain classes stronger than others is the ability to stun them or not. If every class has there own, creative and unique way to combat stuns then it will make the pvp more intense and increase the skill gap . Just my opinion.

Edited by Delani
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This. We can’t make every single dps class an immortal behemoth just because people don’t like getting stunned in regs or solos

 

I don’t want every class to be immune to stuns but I believe that offering players a creative and skillful way to combat stuns will improve the pvp experience. For example, imagine a madness sorc that has the option to create Los object while they are in combat in a war zone. Depending on the player, they could use the los object as a way to run away from their enemy, heal, or even confuse the enemy/ies before they are stunned which may have bought them enough time to regenerate enough health, escape or separate the opposing team before they could gang up on him/her which ultimately increases his/her chances of survival. Just my opinion

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minor but related gripe: it would be nice if white bar didn't decay behind spawn gate.

 

personally, I wouldn't mind the idea that it doesn't decay at all out of combat even though that grants a huge buff to stealth classes. or even if the out of combat decay were 50% the in combat rate, that would be something.

 

but the fact that it goes away before you're allowed to enter the map is galling more for the principle of the thing.

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minor but related gripe: it would be nice if white bar didn't decay behind spawn gate.

 

personally, I wouldn't mind the idea that it doesn't decay at all out of combat even though that grants a huge buff to stealth classes. or even if the out of combat decay were 50% the in combat rate, that would be something.

 

but the fact that it goes away before you're allowed to enter the map is galling more for the principle of the thing.

 

Be good if you didn’t have to heal in the respawn sometimes or die twice or still have dots on you (pet hate)

 

As for the stuns, we don’t need more immunities, we just need less mez or we need all soft stuns to apply the same amount of resolve as a hard stun. Which would make people think more before using it.

 

The problem as I see it is we’ve had an increasing amount of speed / escape abilities over the years and then had more stun, mez, slow affects added to compensate. It’s been an arms race between speed and stuns.

Nearly every class has a speed run like ability. I remember when Inquisitors and Sages were the only ones with speed. Mara’s had predation, but there wasn’t a utility that allowed it to be a free spam every 30secs. Operatives had one roll.

 

I would love to go back to the 1.2 meta, but without the Mara smash. That was the most fun for me as most classes were balanced and there were minimal stun affects and it let the game flow better.

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Be good if you didn’t have to heal in the respawn sometimes or die twice or still have dots on you (pet hate)

 

As for the stuns, we don’t need more immunities, we just need less mez or we need all soft stuns to apply the same amount of resolve as a hard stun. Which would make people think more before using it.

 

The problem as I see it is we’ve had an increasing amount of speed / escape abilities over the years and then had more stun, mez, slow affects added to compensate. It’s been an arms race between speed and stuns.

Nearly every class has a speed run like ability. I remember when Inquisitors and Sages were the only ones with speed. Mara’s had predation, but there wasn’t a utility that allowed it to be a free spam every 30secs. Operatives had one roll.

 

I would love to go back to the 1.2 meta, but without the Mara smash. That was the most fun for me as most classes were balanced and there were minimal stun affects and it let the game flow better.

 

Force speed doesnt make you immune to stuns though, without stun dr classes like sorc, pt and sins lack the dcds and movement evasion against stronger classes. Which leads to inevitable death. I understand this is a team game but in reality, a lot of the situations we find ourselves in are not always circulated around pvp players that are supporting one another so it is up to the devs to take this oppurtunity to evaluate what certain classes are lacking and combat it. From my perspective the ability to endure/ avoid stuns is the main differentiator between the weak and strong classes when compared on a solo level.

Especially classes like merc, sniper and mara. Mercs have enough dcds to the point that their suvivability alone is able to combat a stun lock, also they have reflect if they are taking too much dmg. Maras have a lot of stun immunity and a 75% dmg reduction, again another combat to being stun locked. A good sniper always usuallyt has entrench up which is stun immunity that allows them to use their dcds while an enemy is attacking them along with other utilites that allows them to survive at a much higher rate than i.e pts. DPS sins, sorces and pts (the only classes I am really talking about here) do not have anything to combat being hardstuned. This specifically is what makes PTs so bad unless they are qued with tanks and heals. Atleast sorcers have some type of movement/escape ability and assassins can cloak but it is not enough to match the stronger classes in the game. Once they use breaker and are hard stunned they are facing inevitable death which I am suggesting we should try to fix by accumulating creative and unique ideas that can combat stun locks for the weaker classes.

Edited by Delani
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If DPS sins were able to move like the ninja class in BDO and everytime they used a dash ability ( on a cooldown of course) they could evade dmg/stuns/ccs then dps sins would be considered a much stronger class (possibly even match the level of merc/mara).

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minor but related gripe: it would be nice if white bar didn't decay behind spawn gate.

 

personally, I wouldn't mind the idea that it doesn't decay at all out of combat even though that grants a huge buff to stealth classes. or even if the out of combat decay were 50% the in combat rate, that would be something.

 

but the fact that it goes away before you're allowed to enter the map is galling more for the principle of the thing.

 

Wait that white bar is related to stuns? I thought it was the flight-progress-animation for flying down from spawn in ACW. Or maybe the spawn door timer for the other maps? :p

 

Or, in other words.... "yeah, that".

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Force speed doesnt make you immune to stuns though, without stun dr classes like sorc, pt and sins lack the dcds and movement evasion against stronger classes. Which leads to inevitable death. I understand this is a team game but in reality, a lot of the situations we find ourselves in are not always circulated around pvp players that are supporting one another so it is up to the devs to take this oppurtunity to evaluate what certain classes are lacking and combat it. From my perspective the ability to endure/ avoid stuns is the main differentiator between the weak and strong classes when compared on a solo level.

Especially classes like merc, sniper and mara. Mercs have enough dcds to the point that their suvivability alone is able to combat a stun lock, also they have reflect if they are taking too much dmg. Maras have a lot of stun immunity and a 75% dmg reduction, again another combat to being stun locked. A good sniper always usuallyt has entrench up which is stun immunity that allows them to use their dcds while an enemy is attacking them along with other utilites that allows them to survive at a much higher rate than i.e pts. DPS sins, sorces and pts (the only classes I am really talking about here) do not have anything to combat being hardstuned. This specifically is what makes PTs so bad unless they are qued with tanks and heals. Atleast sorcers have some type of movement/escape ability and assassins can cloak but it is not enough to match the stronger classes in the game. Once they use breaker and are hard stunned they are facing inevitable death which I am suggesting we should try to fix by accumulating creative and unique ideas that can combat stun locks for the weaker classes.

 

No, but force speed has a stun breaker in it if you choose the right ability (as long as you don’t get netted)

 

Also, if you don’t have every class with speed ability, you don’t need so many mez (soft stun abilities) or slow affects.

 

When every class has speed, it becomes speed wars. When there are too many stuns, it becomes stun wars.

It seems every meta it has swung back and forth between the two. One meta would be stuns, the next would be speed. So to try and balance it out, they would add more of them the next meta instead of nerfing them, they buffed it added more.

 

Now it’s at the point that they can’t add anymore or it becomes too ridiculous, so they have started to add more immunities. This pattern will probably continue because they can’t go much further with stuns or speed. Which I think is a mistake because it’s hard enough as it is to know which immunity or stun will over rule the other if you don’t play all the classes. If all you do is read your own ability or utility descriptions, they say things like “it will root” the other player. But no where does it say “unless they have an immunity”. Then you have to work out whose ability over rules the other. Which often requires finding a guide or coming to the forums to complain it’s broken (which you shouldn’t have to do).

 

IMO (which is probably wrong) the last thing we need is more immunities. What we need is them to nerf some of these speed abilities and soft stun and slow abilities. Then they could nerf some of the extra break abilities and go back to where each class had one hard stun and CC.

We could then have distinct classes again and specialist spec that could have one extra slow or mez. ie, Engineering snipers grenade could still have a slow.

 

Which leads to another point of contention. Just about every class or spec has a similar ability now to all other classes.

And they are becoming too generic. Which is why I think the tactical items are beng introduced in 6.0. If they didn’t do that, they would be hard pressed to give new abilities without ability bloating and more generic feeling classes.

 

Ie, my rage Jugg and Fury Mara have basically the same rotation on the same abilities. There are only some small differences and they are around DCDs and Predation or Guard. Everything else is basically the same.

Madness Sorcs and Lighting Sorcs are basically both dot specs instead of one being dot (madness) and one being burst (lightning). IMO, lightning doesn’t need dots.

 

Of course there are still some fundamental differences between certain specs and classes. But I find that these are getting smaller with each meta. ie, now immunities are starting to spread. I’m all for an immunity on a class, but only if it’s too offset another weak ability. There needs to be a trade off somewhere or all classes will be over powered and too grindy to kill. ie, A Merc should not feel like you are trying to kill a tank. If someone wants to play a Mando type tank, the only spec should be the PT tank.

 

You should either have really strong dps and weaker DCDs or the other way around. What we have now is classes that are poorly balanced and immunities have a lot to do with that. Adding more will only make it worse.

My poor Lightning Sorc has weak burst but is hard to kill in a 1v1. So unless the other player is a god or an Operative, I won’t kill them and they won’t kill me. That is the concept of boring and utter frustration for both people.

I would gladly trade off some of my survivability for some stronger burst that may allow me to kill something.

 

Merc’s should not have had their Dps nerfed after 5.0. They should have had their DCDs nerfed instead. No one had a problem with the damage, only their ability to face tank everything and not die. Bioware as per usual didn’t listen to expert player feed back. I’m talking about the highest ranked players here who explained exactly what the issue was and how to fix it. If Bioware had listened instead of nerfing classes dps, everyone would have been happier.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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If DPS sins were able to move like the ninja class in BDO and everytime they used a dash ability ( on a cooldown of course) they could evade dmg/stuns/ccs then dps sins would be considered a much stronger class (possibly even match the level of merc/mara).

 

But that is stupid. Why would you want to make a Sin as strong as either of those two. They already have some of the strongest survival abilities. All that would do is make them the top dps meta and they would be stupidly OP.

They already do some good damage. In a 1v1, you can wear down most other classes and win the fight, especially against a Mara and a Merc.

 

As it stands, both Merc and Mara’s already have OP survivability. The Mara I can understand because they are the only class without a self healing ability or hard stealth out of combat ability. Camo does not break combat like the Sins stealth out,

 

What needs to happen is some nerfs, not buffs.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Wait that white bar is related to stuns? I thought it was the flight-progress-animation for flying down from spawn in ACW. Or maybe the spawn door timer for the other maps? :p

 

Or, in other words.... "yeah, that".

 

What’s sad is most casual pvp people don’t even have the resolve bar turned on in preferences or know it’s there or even what the resolve bar does :eek:

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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What’s sad is most casual pvp people don’t even have the resolve bar turned on in preferences or know it’s there or even what the resolve bar does :eek:

if they don't know about it, then it's already on. ;)

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there is no "new" stun lock meta, no new hard stuns have been added to swtor since 3.0

 

this is a L2P issue. there must always be a way to die, to lose. should you never lose, there will be no challenge.. without challenge, why would you play? I dont play with 5 year old toys. I play videogames, and usually on hard mode.

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there is no "new" stun lock meta, no new hard stuns have been added to swtor since 3.0

 

this is a L2P issue. there must always be a way to die, to lose. should you never lose, there will be no challenge.. without challenge, why would you play? I dont play with 5 year old toys. I play videogames, and usually on hard mode.

 

The new stun lock meta is removing stun dr and phasewalk from certain classes making them exceptionally weaker.

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No, but force speed has a stun breaker in it if you choose the right ability (as long as you don’t get netted)

 

Also, if you don’t have every class with speed ability, you don’t need so many mez (soft stun abilities) or slow affects.

 

When every class has speed, it becomes speed wars. When there are too many stuns, it becomes stun wars.

It seems every meta it has swung back and forth between the two. One meta would be stuns, the next would be speed. So to try and balance it out, they would add more of them the next meta instead of nerfing them, they buffed it added more.

 

Now it’s at the point that they can’t add anymore or it becomes too ridiculous, so they have started to add more immunities. This pattern will probably continue because they can’t go much further with stuns or speed. Which I think is a mistake because it’s hard enough as it is to know which immunity or stun will over rule the other if you don’t play all the classes. If all you do is read your own ability or utility descriptions, they say things like “it will root” the other player. But no where does it say “unless they have an immunity”. Then you have to work out whose ability over rules the other. Which often requires finding a guide or coming to the forums to complain it’s broken (which you shouldn’t have to do).

 

IMO (which is probably wrong) the last thing we need is more immunities. What we need is them to nerf some of these speed abilities and soft stun and slow abilities. Then they could nerf some of the extra break abilities and go back to where each class had one hard stun and CC.

We could then have distinct classes again and specialist spec that could have one extra slow or mez. ie, Engineering snipers grenade could still have a slow.

 

Which leads to another point of contention. Just about every class or spec has a similar ability now to all other classes.

And they are becoming too generic. Which is why I think the tactical items are beng introduced in 6.0. If they didn’t do that, they would be hard pressed to give new abilities without ability bloating and more generic feeling classes.

 

Ie, my rage Jugg and Fury Mara have basically the same rotation on the same abilities. There are only some small differences and they are around DCDs and Predation or Guard. Everything else is basically the same.

Madness Sorcs and Lighting Sorcs are basically both dot specs instead of one being dot (madness) and one being burst (lightning). IMO, lightning doesn’t need dots.

 

Of course there are still some fundamental differences between certain specs and classes. But I find that these are getting smaller with each meta. ie, now immunities are starting to spread. I’m all for an immunity on a class, but only if it’s too offset another weak ability. There needs to be a trade off somewhere or all classes will be over powered and too grindy to kill. ie, A Merc should not feel like you are trying to kill a tank. If someone wants to play a Mando type tank, the only spec should be the PT tank.

 

You should either have really strong dps and weaker DCDs or the other way around. What we have now is classes that are poorly balanced and immunities have a lot to do with that. Adding more will only make it worse.

My poor Lightning Sorc has weak burst but is hard to kill in a 1v1. So unless the other player is a god or an Operative, I won’t kill them and they won’t kill me. That is the concept of boring and utter frustration for both people.

I would gladly trade off some of my survivability for some stronger burst that may allow me to kill something.

 

Merc’s should not have had their Dps nerfed after 5.0. They should have had their DCDs nerfed instead. No one had a problem with the damage, only their ability to face tank everything and not die. Bioware as per usual didn’t listen to expert player feed back. I’m talking about the highest ranked players here who explained exactly what the issue was and how to fix it. If Bioware had listened instead of nerfing classes dps, everyone would have been happier.

 

Yes!!! I honestly agree with most of what you said, the problem with the pvp is that it is too mundane and repetitve, we know what each class has and exactly how to fight it. We need more creativity which is what I was saying the entire time. In regards to the post you responded to, I was just stating the reason why certain classes are op and why certain classes are not and the root of this issue is hard stuns. We need more creativity and innovative ideas that will allow each class to feel unique and different without adding more of what is already in the game. Do you have any ideas at all that might work rather than what you think would not work?

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But that is stupid. Why would you want to make a Sin as strong as either of those two. They already have some of the strongest survival abilities. All that would do is make them the top dps meta and they would be stupidly OP.

They already do some good damage. In a 1v1, you can wear down most other classes and win the fight, especially against a Mara and a Merc.

 

As it stands, both Merc and Mara’s already have OP survivability. The Mara I can understand because they are the only class without a self healing ability or hard stealth out of combat ability. Camo does not break combat like the Sins stealth out,

 

What needs to happen is some nerfs, not buffs.

 

  • I would want to make a sin as strong as the other classes because that is the class i main and play the most

 

If you believe a sin can consistently defeat a merc , mara or a sniper in a 1v1 (who are on the same skill level) then debating with you may not be worth it.

 

What needs to happen is some nerfs, not buffs.

This is were I completly disagree, what needs to happen is more class diversity which we should be recieving in 6.0. I was just offering and showing you an example of what could be implemented in order to make sins "better" and "more fun" for the next patch. Its just an idea that could help sins find an identity and individuality that seperates them from every other class.

 

Because clearly Bioware needs help, removing crushing darkness, nerfing their burst, removing stun dr and pw just ruined deception sins and honestly made the class too easy. People need more innovative ideas that we have not seen before so that every class can have true depth.

Edited by Delani
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The new stun lock meta is removing stun dr and phasewalk from certain classes making them exceptionally weaker.

 

only 2 specs in all of swtor have "lost" stun DR, juggs never had it. those specs are sins and pts. while, yes they need love, stun DR is not going to save them. they arent at the bottom of meta because they cant survive an 8 sec tunnel

 

sorcs still have it and so do mercs. while we are on the topic btw, if I remember correctly only 1 pt spec had it, AP, it was a tree buff, not a utlity.

Edited by Seterade
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only 2 specs in all of swtor have "lost" stun DR, juggs never had it. those specs are sins and pts. while, yes they need love, stun DR is not going to save them. they arent at the bottom of meta because they cant survive an 8 sec tunnel

 

sorcs still have it and so do mercs. while we are on the topic btw, if I remember correctly only 1 pt spec had it, AP, it was a tree buff, not a utlity.

 

Sure, it doesnt change the fact that pt and sins need something to make them more viable. Hopefully people can come up with good ideas that dont make the game more mundane.

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there is no "new" stun lock meta, no new hard stuns have been added to swtor since 3.0

 

this is a L2P issue. there must always be a way to die, to lose. should you never lose, there will be no challenge.. without challenge, why would you play? I dont play with 5 year old toys. I play videogames, and usually on hard mode.

 

I'm inclined to agree with Seterade and Trixxie on this one. If there were more ways to break cc high mobility classes would reign supreme. Stun Wars is frustrating, but few things would be more boring then Speed Wars. There's so much self healing and strong DCDs in this game that players rely on cc to kill each other. What Bioware could consider doing if they haven't already is something along the lines of what another individual mentioned here.

 

1. They could make soft cc add the same amount of resolve as hard cc so players had to actually think about when they use their stuns.

 

2. They could make the resolve bar decrease the duration of the current active cc, reduce the cooldown on your cc breaker, or increase the damage resistance of a player during full resolve ( while still stunned ).

 

3. They could make the decay on the resolve bar not start until the current active cc is over and the player is free to move.

 

I'm just brainstorming here but all of the above would be better than making classes indomitable or immortal. I'd rather players have to think about when they engage. Classes are pretty well balanced as it is with a few only needing minor tweaks ( looking at you mercs, ops, snipers ), but when it's all said and done it's important to be able to create situations where players can be killed especially in team fights with healers. Right now the damage windows created by cc is one of the only avenues to victory in a war of attrition. We've all gotta die sometime Delani, but it's up to you to play your class in a way that maximizes your own survivability.

 

I've said it before and i'll say it again, classes should have their individual strengths and weaknesses. Skanks shouldn't be a thing, Mercs shouldn't tank like Juggs, No one should be able to maraud better than a Marauder, everyone doesn't need to be as slippery as an operative, Assassins should be hit and run masters (not unkillable duelists with unlimited control and the ability to "lol nope" out of combat) ect.

 

Half of the fun in this game ( to me ) is figuring out how to win against classes I shouldn't within the confines of the class I love.

 

Play your way should refer to how you gain gear / unlocks in this game. The actual role you play in a warzone should be determined by the class you choose.

Edited by Dyne-
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I've said it before and i'll say it again, classes should have their individual strengths and weaknesses. Skanks shouldn't be a thing, Mercs shouldn't tank like Juggs, No one should be able to maraud better than a Marauder, everyone doesn't need to be as slippery as an operative, Assassins should be hit and run masters (not unkillable duelists with unlimited control and the ability to "lol nope" out of combat) ect.

 

Half of the fun in this game ( to me ) is figuring out how to win against classes I shouldn't within the confines of the class I love.

 

Play your way should refer to how you gain gear / unlocks in this game. The actual role you play in a warzone should be determined by the class you choose.

 

Fair but every class needs more strength and weakness, the decay idea is good but is it going to make the gameplay more fun? I agree that every class shouldnt be like operatives but every class needs an "out" like operative. I dont care what is but lets be honest, some classes are lacking something. Maybe it isnt movement but its something.

Edited by Delani
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I'm inclined to agree with Seterade and Trixxie on this one. If there were more ways to break cc high mobility classes would reign supreme. Stun Wars is frustrating, but few things would be more boring then Speed Wars. There's so much self healing and strong DCDs in this game that players rely on cc to kill each other. What Bioware could consider doing if they haven't already is something along the lines of what another individual mentioned here.

 

1. They could make soft cc add the same amount of resolve as hard cc so players had to actually think about when they use their stuns.

 

2. They could make the resolve bar decrease the duration of the current active cc, reduce the cooldown on your cc breaker, or increase the damage resistance of a player during full resolve ( while still stunned ).

 

3. They could make the decay on the resolve bar not start until the current active cc is over and the player is free to move.

 

I'm just brainstorming here but all of the above would be better than making classes indomitable or immortal. I'd rather players have to think about when they engage. Classes are pretty well balanced as it is with a few only needing minor tweaks ( looking at you mercs, ops, snipers ), but when it's all said and done it's important to be able to create situations where players can be killed especially in team fights with healers. Right now the damage windows created by cc is one of the only avenues to victory in a war of attrition. We've all gotta die sometime Delani, but it's up to you to play your class in a way that maximizes your own survivability.

 

I've said it before and i'll say it again, classes should have their individual strengths and weaknesses. Skanks shouldn't be a thing, Mercs shouldn't tank like Juggs, No one should be able to maraud better than a Marauder, everyone doesn't need to be as slippery as an operative, Assassins should be hit and run masters (not unkillable duelists with unlimited control and the ability to "lol nope" out of combat) ect.

 

Half of the fun in this game ( to me ) is figuring out how to win against classes I shouldn't within the confines of the class I love.

 

Play your way should refer to how you gain gear / unlocks in this game. The actual role you play in a warzone should be determined by the class you choose.

 

I just think the weaker classes need more innovation and creativity implemented within the class so that players have more to work with. The ideas I read on the class forums were not "game changing" if you ask me. People are limiting themselves with what they believe is appropiate when Musco himself said, "go crazy".

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I just think the weaker classes need more innovation and creativity implemented within the class so that players have more to work with. The ideas I read on the class forums were not "game changing" if you ask me. People are limiting themselves with what they believe is appropiate when Musco himself said, "go crazy".

 

I don't think you're completely wrong on this point. My point above was that cc serves a purpose, as does class choice. Certain classes should be stronger in certain aspects than others, and the game shouldn't necessarily be balanced from a 1v1 perspective.

 

I don't mind innovation and creativity so long as it doesn't throw class roles and balance out the window. As of right now the game balance is decent outside of the issues I mentioned above.

 

What concerns me are changes made in the name of "innovation and creativity" doing away with the little bit of uniqueness left in the game between classes in addition to balance. The classes you mentioned having additional cc breakers would become hilariously OP in the hands of a good player. I know players that play Sorcs, Sins, and PTs that would crush with that kind of freedom. It would be like giving me cc immunity and damage resistance on leap on my Rage Jugg. People would be begging for nerfs if that was a thing.

 

I'm all for tactical items that change the way certain specs play, but ( for example ) under no circumstances should Vengeance Juggs be hitting like Rage Juggs in addition to dots. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If we're going to have changes "go crazy" should not be a part of it. The devs should use that energy to fix what's broken and make new pvp game modes.

 

I have not read all of Musco's ideas. I'll have to read up on them. The last time I read the tactical item post the majority of the responses were as follows:

 

1. Tanks want to do more damage in pvp.

2. Dps specs want to do more damage while touting increased survivability.

 

I'd much prefer nerfs to OP classes and small changes to specs for varieties sake; but not at the expense of balance.

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I'd much prefer nerfs to OP classes and small changes to specs for varieties sake; but not at the expense of balance.

 

new xpacks are never balanced. my sub runs out long before, so I won't have to worry about it, but...yeah. that's a pipe dream. small changes require constant updates, and that definitely isn't happening.

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