After the nerf of the "Concentrated fire"-set, the dps of both specs dropped quite hard.

 

 

Gunnery: Max dps i reached with the "cf"-set was around 21,4k dps: http://parsely.io/parser/view/508774

Average tries were around 20,7-21k dps.

 

I did NOT use attack-adrenals for these tries.

 

I haven't tested CF for Arsenal yet. I would appreciate if someone can share data in this tread.

 

 

After this disappointment i changed to the Apex-Predator- Set with gunnery. The dps was in average about 500-600 dps higher.

 

Gunnery: Average tries were around 21,3-21,8k dps.

Max dps was around 22k: http://parsely.io/parser/view/508007

 

Arsenal: Max dps was around 22,1k: http://parsely.io/parser/view/508066

 

I used attack adrenal for these tries.

 

 

To conclude, Arsenal/gunnery DPS needs at least a buff of 1k dps to compete with the specs at the bottom.

 

 

 

For Assault Specialist/Innovative Ordinance testing i used only the "Concentrated fire-Set"

The "Apex Predator-Set" seems not worth a try for this spec, but i would appreciate seeing some data of it.

 

Assault Specialist: Average tries were around 20,6k-21,2k dps

Max Dps was around 21,8k dps (outstanding try by far): http://parsely.io/parser/view/508617

 

Innovative Ordinace: Average tries were around 21,4k-22,3k dps.

Max dps was around 22,5k dps: http://parsely.io/parser/view/508662

 

For an outstanding try i would say you can reach up to 22,8-22,9k dps.

 

i used attack adrenal for all of these tries.

 

 

To conclude, especially "Assault Specialist" needs at least a buff of 1,4k dps to compete with the bottom of the specs and be a little bit better than Arsenal/Gunnery.(It's a Dot-spec!)

"Innovative Ordinance" needs at least a buff of 400 dps.

 

Or just fix the main/ offhand issue of "Innovative Ordinance" to bring it in par to "Assault Specialist" and buff them simontaneously.

 

 

Last, but not least i have a question to the community regarding the offhand hits.

Are the offhand hits triggering the gain of supercharged stacks with cf-set?

In comparison to "Assault specialist" it seems i have a more consistent gain of stacks with IO, which would also increase the average dmg, if it is the case.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Weiser_Philosoph

Here are some numbers regarding the main/ offhand issue from an older post of me: Merc vs Commando DPS

 

I posted this in another thread. The gap between commando and merc (you can check this in parsely) exists because of much more crit on the mainhand, Even with my parse on AS (http://parsely.io/parser/view/471581/0) with the three more or less guaranted crits on mag-shot (59,19% crit on mainhand) i couldnt match the crit on a mercs mainhand (62,31%). This was a really high crit parse. Normally i couldnt get above 57,8% crit.

The bug has been fixed since 6.1 and now my highest parse is 22,4k (55,8% crit). The gap logically grew( 6,51%)

 

The arsenal/ gunnery crit difference on mainhaind goes up to 6,95%

 

Please fix this issue. Otherwise you have to buff the republic mirror to merc lvl (ex: with a passive). But this would be only a temporary solution.

I'll second this. PvE and PvP wise the time to kill is 10 seconds longer for Mercs/Mandos compared to every other class (Using the 1mil/65mil benchmark for both PvE and PvP). This is evident as well in the DPS #s I'm personally pulling as well as the math I pulled from Parsely using best in slot personally for 6.1.2. Normally I could care less if a class is nerfed simply because I understand Mercs/Mandos needed a nerf. TTK/DPS average was 8% higher than every class. It should never be more than 5% BiS comparison.

 

Yes, skill is a thing. Yes, luck is a thing. But you want it at 5% difference for the margin of error. -10% is LAUGHABLE!! With margin of error it'd be ~-12%-8%.

 

All this is out of a sample draw of 100 results from parsely including my own stats. If Bioware splits the difference from the nerf, we'd all be happier as the skilled can compete with the stealth meta and still allow a skill ceiling to achieve that. I love my merc/mando but outside of FPs, I'll put him down for a while.

I don't think this is necessarily true, comparing gunnery/arsenal to its counterparts for other range dps classes it's doing similar/better numbers to both lightning and marksmanship, in fact with the upcoming fix to the Apex Predator setbonus it will most likely outperform both its main counterparts by quite a bit. Innovative ordnance is doing slightly less compared to Virulence but still more than Madness so I think that its still very competitive if you take into account the player skill factor.

I don't think this is necessarily true, comparing gunnery/arsenal to its counterparts for other range dps classes it's doing similar/better numbers to both lightning and marksmanship, in fact with the upcoming fix to the Apex Predator setbonus it will most likely outperform both its main counterparts by quite a bit. Innovative ordnance is doing slightly less compared to Virulence but still more than Madness so I think that its still very competitive if you take into account the player skill factor.

 

If you look at actual operations parses you will see that commando/merc is always lowest dps by considerable margin. This is generally true for all performance percentiles. To me this is completely unbalanced. Sorcs are actually parsing in top 4 dps in actual encounters. Don't rely on dummy dps performance stats to compare dps. Even if you did commando is still majorly underperforming.

I don't think this is necessarily true, comparing gunnery/arsenal to its counterparts for other range dps classes it's doing similar/better numbers to both lightning and marksmanship, in fact with the upcoming fix to the Apex Predator setbonus it will most likely outperform both its main counterparts by quite a bit. Innovative ordnance is doing slightly less compared to Virulence but still more than Madness so I think that its still very competitive if you take into account the player skill factor.

 

What "fix"? I haven't seen any mention of a fix anywhere. Ever since the CF nerf, all I've heard are crickets from the Devs.

I don't think this is necessarily true, comparing gunnery/arsenal to its counterparts for other range dps classes it's doing similar/better numbers to both lightning and marksmanship, in fact with the upcoming fix to the Apex Predator setbonus it will most likely outperform both its main counterparts by quite a bit. Innovative ordnance is doing slightly less compared to Virulence but still more than Madness so I think that its still very competitive if you take into account the player skill factor.

 

No fix coming for the set. It's not competitive when the disparity is piss poor. The mercs are still a chunk better than the mandos. The numbers DO NOT lie. And skill really isn't a factor when everyone is running BiS on the comparisons. I check parse for the changes and even talking with Elesandros, the current lead for mandos, he said it was 80% luck on crit rolls that he got what he did. He actually stated he used to main mando since launch but only hops on time to time when he feels like it. Complete agrees with how bad the 'DPS' is now.

 

I'd normally agree about skill but numbers can always account for skill. You can always cheese skill which comes and goes week to week, but you can't argue a large sample number.

As far as I know, the Apex Pred set is fixed on the PTS, so whenever live servers gets that update the set should be working then

As far as I know, the Apex Pred set is fixed on the PTS, so whenever live servers gets that update the set should be working then

 

What is the "fix"?

I don't think this is necessarily true, comparing gunnery/arsenal to its counterparts for other range dps classes it's doing similar/better numbers to both lightning and marksmanship, in fact with the upcoming fix to the Apex Predator setbonus it will most likely outperform both its main counterparts by quite a bit. Innovative ordnance is doing slightly less compared to Virulence but still more than Madness so I think that its still very competitive if you take into account the player skill factor.

 

The leaderboards were not resetted after the nerf of the "Concentrate Fire"-Set. So the numbers you are seeing there, are not reachable anymore. You have to relate to the numbers i posted above.

 

What is the "fix"?

 

The crit chance of Grave Round/Tracer Missile got fixed. If you have for example 38% crit, the following crit- chances of GR/TM should be 38%,48%,58%,68%,78%,88% and then it will repeat.

Average Crit: (38+48+58+68+78+88)% / 6 = 63%

I have tested it and can confirm the fix. The crit was in average around 58%-68%. 63% is right in the middle of these numbers. It seems relatively consistent now.

 

Here is the post with my newest experiences from the PTS-Forums:

The actual record with "Apex Predator" is around 22,2k on live servers. i have done a parse which is located in this area but not the actual record: http://parsely.io/parser/view/508066

 

After i have heard that "Apex Predator" got fixed on PTS i did some parses there and confirm that the set got actually fixed.

 

Average tries with Gunnery were around 21.1k-21.7k DPS (live servers: 21,3k-21,8k)

Max DPS was around 22,1k: http://parsely.io/parser/view/526464

 

My estimation was that DPS after the fix would have been risen about 200-250 DPS

But my actual parses in average are worse than on live servers. The higher ms on PTS could be a problem.

All in all, i would assume that the top parse could be around 22,3k DPS now.

 

To compete with the specs at the bottom, Gunnery/Arsenal needs at least a buff of 900-1000 DPS.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Weiser_Philosoph

Yeah looking at parsely after the latest patch and the top arsenal merc dummy parse is just barely over 22k while the overall leaders are filled with maras/sents, sins/shadows, and gunslingers/snipers. If you look at overall leaders the highest arsenal parse is 2.5k behind the top. The highest IO parse is still 1.3k behind. So there is a huge gap between the top parses and merc dps. I also find it funny that the top merc parses are IO but using apex predator set with altered rotation replacing unload with 2 power shots and that it's doing 1.2k more than the top arsenal parse. It's so bad that I'm running into problems finding groups because people don't want to bring arsenal mercs to raids.

it's so bad that i'm running into problems finding groups because people don't want to bring arsenal mercs to raids.

 

^^^^^this.

Yeah I'm now raiding on my sniper and slinger instead. Only get to bring my merc to fights like apex where I can self cleanse.

Thank you Weiser_Philosoph.

To summon up a life of an Arsenal/Gunnery Comando Merc nowadays:

 

Worst DPS spec in game

Pulls out more threat than any other spec - Tanks hate us

CF set (pre nerf) was better than what Apex Predator set is now

 

And if that wasn´t enough, Apex Predator set requires you to build (pre fight): 10 stacks of supercharge and an additional 5 stacks of power step that last 20 secs and are a pain to synchronise with the tank starting of the fight (drains energy, takes too long to set it and the 5 stacks disappear too fast) - Tanks also hate us for that

 

Being played as fools vs other specs with worst gear

 

Too much initial burst and unable to maintain DPS after that

 

Ok we do have great survivability but FFS we want to kill not play as tanks / healers