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Vengeance and Rage Juggernaut/Vigilance and Focus Guardian Set Bonus Discussion


EricMusco

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Make the 4set a default part of the ability of Saber Throw itself.

 

Replace the 4set with a 8% damage boost to Master Strike.

 

Tack on for the 6pc an option for it to proc from Blade Storm, not just Saber Throw.

 

New Level 60 Set Bonuses

  • 2-Piece: Sundering Assault or Sundering Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Increases the Damage of Master Strike/Ravage by 8%
  • 6-Piece: Activating Saber Throw and Blade Storm or Saber Throw and Force Scream will grant Vindicator's Critical Bonus making your next Impale and Furious Strike or Overhead Slash and Concentrated Slice critically hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every minute.
     
    Misc: Saber Throw now has a range of 0 to 30 meters.

 

I'm on board with this actually. It's what I was already going to suggest.

 

Edit: Fixed for you breh. Play a Jug sometime will ya? ;)

Also keep in mind that 8% damage bonus was meant for Marauders when Ravage was 30 Second CD. If they do implement that 4 Set bonus, I imagine the % is going to be adjusted to match the 5% goal they want. Expect to see a 2-4% on that if it gets put into the gear.

Edited by Lamendra
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Even if the 6pc is staying the same, please add more ways to proc it instead of just Saber Throw.

 

I think saber throw proccing is is perfectly fine. Its easy to keep track of the ICD with saber throw since its a 30s CD. Doesn't really need any other ways to proc it.

Edited by Raansu
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I'm on board with this actually. It's what I was already going to suggest.

 

Edit: Fixed for you breh. Play a Jug sometime will ya? ;)

Also keep in mind that 8% damage bonus was meant for Marauders when Ravage was 30 Second CD. If they do implement that 4 Set bonus, I imagine the % is going to be adjusted to match the 5% goal they want. Expect to see a 2-4% on that if it gets put into the gear.

 

8% wouldn't increase our DPS by more than 5%, unless Master Strike suddenly makes up like 80% of our damage, which it doesn't. It would only be a 1 or 2% increase at most.

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As long as we're talking about no min range on Saber Throw as a baseline, why not an Force Leap/Charge, too? I still don't understand why the only ranged abilities in the game with a minimum range are on a pure melee class.

 

Rather than boosting specific abilities' damages, why not have 1 damage buff at the 2 piece, an auto-crit buff at the 6 piece, and then some kind of universal utility at the 4 piece? In the Sent/Mara thread, I suggested some kind of healing that was a % of Master Strike/Ravage's damage. As Veng has a different MS/Ravage damage than Rage, it would probably have to be a different ability, if a self-healing route was taken (which could be overkill given the potency of ED/FD).

 

If we did get a self-heal, something that could be unique-ish and differentiate the specs more would be if DoTs healed a % of their damage (for Veng) and Furious Strike healed a % of its damage (for Rage), giving Veng the type of self-heals better in a sustained dps fight, while Rage got better self-heals in a burst dps fight.

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8% wouldn't increase our DPS by more than 5%, unless Master Strike suddenly makes up like 80% of our damage, which it doesn't. It would only be a 1 or 2% increase at most.

 

Whatever you say, you're the theorycrafter. I just try to summarize ****.

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I want to preface this by saying I'm a big fan of set bonuses that have cause small changes to the rotation like the current 4pc, and I feel stuff like small dmg or crit increases are a waste of a resource to make the gearing process fun to go through. I understand having rotation changes tied to set bonuses causes frustration while getting those pieces, but I like the feeling of accomplishment when you get those pieces and the rotation falls into place. With all that being said here are my suggestions for the set bonuses;

 

2 pc - Reduces minimum range of saber throw by 10m.

4 pc - Activating combat focus increases damage done by 20% for 12 seconds.

6 pc - Your burning purpose damage has a 8% chance to allow you to use riposte off the global cool-down and reduces I'ts focus cost by 1.

 

The 2 pc makes the rotation work properly, the 4 pc adds needed burst to the rotation and the 6 pc is a fun way to add about a 3 or 4% dmg increase to the rotation.

 

(I'm not familiar enough with 3.0 focus/rage to make that last suggestion work for the spec)

Edited by CaptainLunch
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I want to preface this by saying I'm a big fan of set bonuses that have cause small changes to the rotation like the current 4pc, and I feel stuff like small dmg or crit increases are a waste of a resource to make the gearing process fun to go through. I understand having rotation changes tied to set bonuses causes frustration while getting those pieces, but I like the feeling of accomplishment when you get those pieces and the rotation falls into place. With all that being said here are my suggestions for the set bonuses;

 

2 pc - Reduces minimum range of saber throw by 10m.

4 pc - Activating combat focus increases damage done by 20% for 12 seconds.

6 pc - Your burning purpose damage has a 8% chance to allow you to use riposte off the global cool-down and reduces I'ts focus cost by 1.

 

The 2 pc makes the rotation work properly, the 4 pc adds needed burst to the rotation and the 6 pc is a fun way to add about a 3 or 4% dmg increase to the rotation.

 

(I'm not familiar enough with 3.0 focus/rage to make that last suggestion work for the spec)

 

Pass...

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It's actually kinda cool to have everyone thinking in the same direction.

 

1. 100% agree with the saber throw range being part of the ability instead of being a set bonus.

 

2. For the other bit, I would honestly like to be able to control my burst, and the only way I can think of is getting riposte off the gcd in certain conditions. Honestly, an autocrit on impale is nice, but using it at the start of a fight because it's just part of your rotation seems silly, and that goes for all classes except PTs which do have an option on when to use their autocrit.

 

Kewl discussion, keep it up.

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It's actually kinda cool to have everyone thinking in the same direction.

 

1. 100% agree with the saber throw range being part of the ability instead of being a set bonus.

 

2. For the other bit, I would honestly like to be able to control my burst, and the only way I can think of is getting riposte off the gcd in certain conditions. Honestly, an autocrit on impale is nice, but using it at the start of a fight because it's just part of your rotation seems silly, and that goes for all classes except PTs which do have an option on when to use their autocrit.

 

Kewl discussion, keep it up.

 

Riposte just needs to be off the GCD in general. Why they put it onto the GCD is beyond me and makes me hate using it even if it does hit decently now.

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IT wouldn't be more beneficial. There are other ways to decrease reliance on Ravage, but the fact is that the blade storm bonus is ****.

 

Also, increasing reliance on Ravage is a GOOD thing. It promotes this little thing called skill, or more accurately, basic awareness.

 

It was just an idea to use something they may have already tested once (I assume since the tooltip is still in game), I'm not a theorycrafter so I didn't do the math behind that ^^

And if I understood correctly, they want to make even more mobile fights in 4.0 so since MS/Ravage is actually what qualify guardians/jugs as one of the least mobile class of the game, I thought it could be a nice idea.

I don't know which spec you play, but when I tried focus/rage, I noticed that cancelling MS/ravage could be destructive for your DPS since the rotation is so tight your next ability would probably still be on CD if you did so, where it's less of a problem in vigilance/vengeance where the rotation is more a priority list so you always can come back on your feet.

 

6 pc - Your burning purpose damage has a 8% chance to allow you to use riposte off the global cool-down and reduces I'ts focus cost by 1

 

Riposte is already used rotationally in focus/rage and since the rotation is pretty much locked in stone, I don't think it would change anything for those who play that spec.

Edited by LudhaninRolgge
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Riposte just needs to be off the GCD in general. Why they put it onto the GCD is beyond me and makes me hate using it even if it does hit decently now.

 

I agree. I think both Sents/Maras and Guards/Juggs become more fun to play with Riposte/Retaliation off the GCD (and, for the former, getting the ability back in the first place; they could give it a name change to make it feel like an ability unique to that AC, like Off-hand Strike or something). It makes the rotation feel just that much faster, which is a big deal for a melee spec since we have time on target issues that ranged just don't get.

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As long as we're talking about no min range on Saber Throw as a baseline, why not an Force Leap/Charge, too? I still don't understand why the only ranged abilities in the game with a minimum range are on a pure melee class.

 

Rather than boosting specific abilities' damages, why not have 1 damage buff at the 2 piece, an auto-crit buff at the 6 piece, and then some kind of universal utility at the 4 piece? In the Sent/Mara thread, I suggested some kind of healing that was a % of Master Strike/Ravage's damage. As Veng has a different MS/Ravage damage than Rage, it would probably have to be a different ability, if a self-healing route was taken (which could be overkill given the potency of ED/FD).

 

If we did get a self-heal, something that could be unique-ish and differentiate the specs more would be if DoTs healed a % of their damage (for Veng) and Furious Strike healed a % of its damage (for Rage), giving Veng the type of self-heals better in a sustained dps fight, while Rage got better self-heals in a burst dps fight.

 

Last thing veng needs is more survivability. We need more damage, or a rootbreak for PVP.

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Last thing veng needs is more survivability. We need more damage, or a rootbreak for PVP.

 

The latter of which if tied to a set bonus would see me never playing Jugg again.

 

The 4-piece becoming the Ravage is a good idea. The 6-piece... the auto crits IMO being 1 min are underwhelming. But even then having it put on Bladestorm would theoretically make it more optimal how ever in the opening burst it'd suck. Tying it to both Saber Throw and Scream would be best.

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Last thing veng needs is more survivability. We need more damage, or a rootbreak for PVP.

 

Hence my overkill comment. The issue with rootbreak is that's a PvP-only concern. Is there another utility besides self-healing that is of approximately equal concern for PvE and PvP?

 

The latter of which if tied to a set bonus would see me never playing Jugg again.

 

The 4-piece becoming the Ravage is a good idea. The 6-piece... the auto crits IMO being 1 min are underwhelming. But even then having it put on Bladestorm would theoretically make it more optimal how ever in the opening burst it'd suck. Tying it to both Saber Throw and Scream would be best.

 

The auto-crit is pretty nice, especially for PvP. But I imagine that for PvE, it's pretty underwhelming, since you're never bursting down an Ops boss in a couple GCDs.

 

To that end, would it break their dps gains barrier of 5% if the ICD on that proc dropped significantly? Say, 30s?

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Make the 4set a default part of the ability of Saber Throw itself.

 

Replace the 4set with a 8% damage boost to Master Strike.

 

Tack on for the 6pc an option for it to proc from Blade Storm, not just Saber Throw.

 

New Level 60 Set Bonuses

  • 2-Piece: Sundering Assault or Sundering Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Increases the Damage of Master Strike/Ravage by 8%
  • 6-Piece: Activating Saber Throw or Blade Storm will grant Vindicator's Critical Bonus making your next Impale and Furious Strike or Overhead Slash and Concentrated Slice critically hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every minute.
     
    Misc: Saber Throw now has a range of 0 to 30 meters.

 

 

Could'nt have been better said than you did

 

/agree

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New Level 60 Set Bonuses

  • 2-Piece: Sundering Assault/Sundering Strike or Saber Throw increases damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds.
  • 4-Piece: Increases the Damage of Master Strike/Ravage by 8%
  • 6-Piece: Activating Saber Throw or Ravage/Master strike will grant Vindicator's Critical Bonus making your next Impale and Furious Strike or Overhead Slash and Concentrated Slice critically hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every minute.

 

Addition: Saber Throw now has a range of 0 to 30 meters and reduce the movement speed of affected target by 50% for 6 seconds.

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I think that the majority of set bonuses amongst all classes are generic and boring not only juggernauts'.

A 2% damage increase? Seriously? Is it 2005 for such "bonuses"?

 

A big problem with SWTOR (I'm sure not only for me) is an ability bloat. And forcing Saber Throw into ST rotation is not ideal. Vengeance has solid rotation\gameplay without it and Rage has a ton of abilities and its kit should be adjusted next expansion.

 

Autocrit set bonuses: boring. Why? Because I have 30% crit chance and critting all the time. Sure a guaranteed critical hit can secure a kill in pvp but still...boring. I'd prefer some enhancement to Enrage. Like "Enrage increases your damage by 10% for 6 sec and makes your next Impale\Furious Strike autocrit". Since we don't have abilities like Recklessness or Polarity Shift, this should be our source of burst, not Saber Throw

 

A few ideas for potential jugg set bonuses from the top of my head (I'm not a game designer so you, Bioware, can make smth better):

- when Endless Rage triggers it deals X amount of damage to an attacker

- Ravage can be channeled while moving (maybe with movement speed reduction)

- Ravage deals X% of its damage as AoE damage

- activating Sundering Assault increases damage of your next Sundering Assault by X%

- when Vicious Throw deals damage to a target below 30% of HP, the cooldown on Vicious Throw is immediately reset

 

I'm pvper myself btw

Edited by brootallord
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I love how people go on about bonuses being "boring" but then their ideas are either completely broken or not practical. I don't really get the whole concept of a bonus on the gear being "boring." Its not meant to alter a class or make any drastic changes. Its just a bonus. The idea of it being "boring" is silly to me.

 

They have to be balanced in some way and they are a hell of a lot better than the pre 3.0 gear bonuses, or do you all really think some minor % boosts or energy regens are some how more interactive than controlling your burst windows? Lets not forget the insulting operative bonuses pre 3.0.....

 

Or would you all prefer the alternative and have no gear bonus? Personally I think that would probably be fore the best but whatever.

Edited by Raansu
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Just stopping in to say either GLM or Anton's version's work fine with me assuming a 0-30 baseline saber throw. Since Guardians are the only AC that lacks a true offensive cooldown I think throwing another +damage ability on the 4 piece isn't going to exactly break the game.
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