Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer

Galactic Starfighter (GSF) Suggestions

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Galactic Starfighter (GSF) Suggestions

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar

10.19.2019 , 11:50 PM | #11
I'm going to repeat the very last point in my previous post, since you didn't (and haven't) address(ed) it:

GSF is a group game. You decide whether or not you want to choose who is in your group. You don't have to, but you will be in a group regardless. Matchmaking is essentially RNG, so even if what you are suggesting was reasonable (and it's not), it wouldn't work.

To the second post: The idea that games played or components mastered means anything at all about a player's skill or ability is, frankly, absurd. As mentioned previously. The game already does what you're suggesting, though probably in a way that's better implemented. It still doesn't work because those are silly metrics.

I am hopeful that those of us as a player base can come up with constructive ideas on how to better one aspect of our enjoyment that we derive from SWTOR, which is Galactic Starfighter!"
We have suggested an idea for that, that we as players can implement: we can form groups! It's pretty easy, and makes up for bad matchmaking.

Notable: I say this as a dedicated and stubborn solo player. I wish solo was less frustrating, but I don't blame the groups for this problem.

Verain's Avatar

10.20.2019 , 10:09 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by myrrhbear View Post
Honestly the level of ad hominem hostility being directed at me in this discussion is really disturbing.
It's not an ad hominem attack. No one is avoiding discussing your points- everyone has explained why your givens are wrong and your conclusions are wrong. The separate facts (that you lost, claimed you were better than other players in 1v1 (irrelevant and wrong), had that proven in a 1v1, posted salt in /ops, /gsf, the GSF Discord, then cried to Dakhath for literally hours, and now are here on the forums carrying on without addressing any of the things that have been discussed) are all relevant as well.

I simply made the request that people be mindful and respectful of others in GSF.
NO, you did nothing this simple. Do you see why the facts are important? You didn't "simply request" anything, you flooded all chat forums available to you with salt, challenged a 1v1 (an irrelevant thing, btw), were indulged in this and got absolutely massacred, went to Discord, and went to forums, where you are currently begging the devs to make it so that groups can't queue and can't play because you want to win more in pvp and believe that changing the game would result in this. You want the entire game to be remade for you.

To this point, however, beating you in a pvp isn't a lack of mindfulness or respect, winning pvp matches is literally the point of pvp matches.

If you know you are strong pilots and you queue as a group, and you wipe the floor with the opposing team repeatedly, it is game breaking for everyone else.
Nothing about this is game breaking though. GSF is a team game, 8v8 or 12v12, and the stronger team wins almost all of the time. What's game breaking about that occurring?

The devs implemented an attempt to create more balanced matches by ranking pilots, and having them automatically separated and sorted to the two teams according to skill.
Actually no, they set them up according to experience, not skill. And said experience reviews your stuff account-wide (or at least server-wide per account). And this counts your most "experienced" pilot in group as if everyone in the group were that pilot.

It is very much not according to skill, however, as the game doesn't have a way to measure that as a metric- there's no ranking or rating or whatever.

This is one of your givens that is incorrect, despite being told as such by many players.

This only seems to function when people queue individually.
It applies a harsher logic to groups, actually, as you've also been told, wherein everyone in the group is queued as if they are the most experienced person in the group.

This is one of your givens that is incorrect, despite being told as such by many players.

However when people queue as a group together, all balance is lost.
This is also a given that is incorrect.

As has been explained- in this thread and other places- the GSF matchmaker isn't making many matches by skill in the first place. It is not bad at dealing with truly new players, but the difference between two experienced players can be really vast. The existing matchmaker isn't great at this, and it doesn't get appreciably worse than bad when you queue with groups. The matchmaker is pretty ok at taking two premades and splitting them on opposite sides- it doesn't do so 100% of the time, but it does do so much more than chance would dictate.

the fact remains that GSF becomes basically unplayable during the periods when groups of expert pilots queue together as a team
What you actually mean is "I can't win when I get placed against a premade, and I'm not willing to make my own, so please stop them from having fun".

My request of my fellow players is some consideration for the balance, and simply to please, if you notice after a couple of matches that you are clearly destroying the balance, to by all means keep queing and enjoying the game, but queue individually so that the game has a chance to balance the two teams.
Oh, that's it? Ok, then let me answer, for me personally:


We're done here now, right?

The suggestion that was aimed at me, that I should just find a group of my own if I don't like it, doesn't seem realistic.
Does "invite to group" not work on your UI? Are you banned from all Discords? Why is it not realistic?

On the drop of a hat, at any random time when a group of 4 elite pilots happens to form a team and start queuing, I'm not suddenly going to be able to find an equal number of basically equally skilled pilots to form a second team.
Do you think this is what normally happens? You could form a group at a time you normally play, and then play with that group at that time. That's literally what every group in the game does, after all.

And of course, people do form groups sometimes, at the drop of a hat. There's GSF chat, there's Discord, and there's all the other mechanisms that the game allows for this. This then comes back to my earlier points which you seem to feel are "ad hominem"- you don't even do this. When beaten, you demand that groups be kicked out of the game.

So if there aren't more people who want to form a second team then instead of wrecking the game for everyone else you could split your current team of 4 , for example, into two teams of 2, still allowing a chance that the GSF teams can be balanced, and fun for everyone.
Nah, hard pass.

Until such time as our developers find a way to mitigate this imbalance through an internal mechanic, the best I can do is ask my fellow pilots to choose
"Until I can convince the devs to remove you by force, I will appeal to your better nature and my redefinition of the goals of the game, which I hope you will adhere to instead of playing to win."

What a compelling argument.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Verain's Avatar

10.20.2019 , 10:20 AM | #13
Continuing the thread:

Dakhath's points are all solid as well. GSF is a team based combat game, with a matchmaker that only really tries to sort roughly by gear and experience. Choosing to get random teammates when this is a self-imposed restriction is ultimately on you.

As to the posts you are bringing over from the ea forums:
The details of how matchmaker could work are not a terrible idea, but you wouldn't need to arbitrarily assign points for this or for that. You could base the whole thing off of win percent and it would be a reasonably solid system, you could do rankings and it would be a lot better. I'm pretty sure the devs know all this, and maybe one day they will do something that counts more things. The devs already:

1)- Got rid of the never-intended 8 man premade
2)- Got rid of the high probability game that one team is entirely unupgraded and the other is not
3)- Counts premades as higher than the sum of their parts

If they added win percent as a metric for choosing teams, that would do a bunch more. If they actually added a stack ranking internally, that would do even more. I think matchmaker is not the smartest script in the land already, and most times we have seen it modified results in it not popping games with enough players on, etc. One day we may see further improvements.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

cheese_cake's Avatar

10.20.2019 , 11:04 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by myrrhbear View Post
The suggestion that was aimed at me, that I should just find a group of my own if I don't like it, doesn't seem realistic. On the drop of a hat, at any random time when a group of 4 elite pilots happens to form a team and start queuing, I'm not suddenly going to be able to find an equal number of basically equally skilled pilots to form a second team. I don't have the metrics available that the game's internal mechanic has for sorting pilots according to skill level, and finding several top notch pilots at a moment's notice just because another group has formed, is often not going to be available.
This bugs me the most. You're not supposed to be able to find random people at the drop of the hat that can instantly go toe to toe against better teams.You're supposed to find like minded people who will put in the time & effort to cultivate each other until the group as a whole becomes the better team. In any team based PvP game your carefully selected team will absolutely come across a better one & get squashed. It takes a lot of time, effort, and passion as a team to improve as a whole before taking on better teams.

Rather than demand others not play the game as intended, here is an actionable plan you can implement on your own just by willing it:
  • Determine other pilots of merit. You can do this by looking at the end game score board. Perhaps take top few names down. Pick whoever on the opposing team you felt gave you the most trouble during the match. Or if you slaughtered the other team think about who did their best despite the situation.
  • Invite them to group. Plain and simple. Not everyone will accept. You have to be consistent and persevere.
  • Group with the same people regularly. Again you need to persevere until you find friends who will group consistently & regularly.

After that you & your merry band will begin the journey of getting good as a team. Your team will get squashed every now & then, but you have to pick each other up & press on. You will eventually learn how your team plays & each other's quirks. You will learn how to help each other shine the most. You will improve each other collaboratively.

In the wise words of a particular French purple mineral, why can't GSF-ers learn to do what every PvE-er in the game picks up easily?

If you refuse to do these simple steps, you need to be honest with yourself that team based PvP is not for you. No one is given a great team on a silver platter. You work hard together to polish what you have.