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Ask Elrathion


Turando's Avatar


Turando
02.15.2012 , 12:49 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Elrathion View Post
Allthough on paper and in schematics power gives the most added benifit, I think end game is all about fast paced encounters and big bursts. If you swap more surge, you also swap more crit (because right now all good players had surge/crit in their pvp gear). I'm unwilling to trade more power for less crit.
That is fine, but that is a personal preference in playstyle, my guess most in the theorycrafting community would probably disagree, and rely upon the consistent throughput of Power over praying to the RNG gods for the big crits. Depending on how high up you are already up the DR crit/surge curves, any additional crit/surge is wasteful compared to proportional increases in Power. Right now, the law of averages does put Power ahead of crit and surge, primarily because Power scaling is linear and doesn't have a diminishing return, so you can stack Power and get reliably consistent performance.

Given the choice between being barely alive, but killed by opponent in two encounters, versus trouncing my opponent one time and dead the next time, I will always pick the former.

Power is favored almost as heavily as Willpower:

Crit Alacrity Power Force_Power Willpower Surge
0.5951 0.3052 0.9106 0.9111 1.0000 0.7759

http://www.simulationcraft.org/swtor...cerer_113.html

Elrathion's Avatar


Elrathion
02.15.2012 , 02:09 PM | #12
Still..

Your item choises are:

LOSING CRIT + SURGE

for

POWER + Alacrity

At a high level sure, I'm willing to ditch those 2 stats [cse previous I was at 400 surge].
But right now losing both crit and surge for some power, no ty.

Turando's Avatar


Turando
02.15.2012 , 02:09 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Khadroth View Post
So yes prior to 200 Surge gains in leaps and bounds, but only late in the 200's will it really catch up to the other stats (beyond which it's finally worse than the others) in terms of value added. Also, no reflective does not exist anymore.
Thanks, I didn't know reflective wasn't in game anymore. I'd really like to see the math behind that because the spreadsheet analysis I have done doesn't justify going that high up the DR curve.

LordQbical's Avatar


LordQbical
02.15.2012 , 02:11 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Turando View Post
290 is bit high up the new surge diminishing return curve, low to mid 200s seems to be more efficient. (i.e. at 230 surge, you get roughly 22.73% bonus, at 290 you only get 24.98%, thats 60 surge which is likely an additional 2 mods for just 2% bonus).

For DPS Sages Willpower > Power > Everything Else
So WP is still by far are most powerful stat, so all mods, armors, should be using the Resolve mods.

For DPS sages, for enhancements, I would be balancing...
http://www.torhead.com/item/dyXw8Xh/...enhancement-25

and

http://www.torhead.com/item/2ON9qgN/...enhancement-25

(if you can find the reflective enhancement in game)
dang! so your saying for a level 44 DPS sage, I should be stacking power and surge? I just noticed most of the mods available to me now are critical and alacrity. should i be stacking power/surge instead?
"Instead of shooting at where I was, you should have shot at where I was going to be!"

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Ruuprect's Avatar


Ruuprect
02.15.2012 , 02:12 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by LordQbical View Post
dang! so your saying for a level 44 DPS sage, I should be stacking power and surge? I just noticed most of the mods available to me now are critical and alacrity. should i be stacking power/surge instead?
You should always stack power and your primary stat if its available.
Ruprect
Level 50 Sage
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eNcFireWraith's Avatar


eNcFireWraith
02.15.2012 , 02:16 PM | #16
Alacrity is garbage in this game. Why would you stack Power/Alacrity when you can use Power/Surge mods?

I don't care what the DR is on Surge, if you STACK all alacrity, you can get a 2.5s cast down to ~2.1 seconds. Wooo....

I bet if you dropped all your Alacrity mods, you would only see a drop of about .1-.2 seconds on Telekinetic throw. Getting more surge is vastly superior to that.

Bottom line is power trumps all. After power you want a decent crit rate (30-40% w/buffs is more than adequate) and then surge. Alacrity is a last resort.
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Turando's Avatar


Turando
02.15.2012 , 02:19 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Elrathion View Post
Still..

Your item choises are:

LOSING CRIT + SURGE

for

POWER + Alacrity

At a high level sure, I'm willing to ditch those 2 stats [cse previous I was at 400 surge].
But right now losing both crit and surge for some power, no ty.
Although might want to consider the Adept enhancements, they are Power+Surge.
Again, you have to be cautious how far back down the DR curve you slide on Crit, but it is a far smoother curve than the new surge curve.

Either way, its a great discussion, and has me thinking about the math behind the calcuations.

Turando's Avatar


Turando
02.15.2012 , 02:25 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by LordQbical View Post
dang! so your saying for a level 44 DPS sage, I should be stacking power and surge? I just noticed most of the mods available to me now are critical and alacrity. should i be stacking power/surge instead?

Most of the calculations I have done are based on level 50s, but generally yes. If you are running the Balance or Balance/Hybrid spec, most of our spells are instant cast and/or dot ticks, which Alacrity doesn't affect. Alacrity is near useless for these sages.

If you have the choice between Power/Alacrity and Power/Surge, definitely go Power/Surge.

Azwrayth's Avatar


Azwrayth
02.15.2012 , 02:27 PM | #19
What spec do you play with and why?

Elrathion's Avatar


Elrathion
02.15.2012 , 02:44 PM | #20
You guys still don't get it. I'm trying to LOSE surge not gain it...

If you're like me and you're at 400 surge, only choise is downgrade to power/alacrity and by doing this you lose crit. So I wanna keep that to a minimum, hence the 290'ish.