Since new updates of increasing the number of games for weekly and daily, no new quests for playing tr with masterwork crystal reward (i dont count the new 50 games or kill two world bosses because everyone is choosing second part of course) team ranked became pretty dead on both sf and dm. My teams queued on both servers during prime times and we had to wait like 2-3 HOURS for a single pop.

I see not only my teams faced this:

Ehh, I don't know why people complain that mat farmers existed. Because of mat farmers, mediocre and decent teams also queued. Team ranked is much more dead right now.

2 months trying to get a pop across 5 of my 13 toons. those five are all geared to the hilt. 2 months then yesterday i finally got a pop for rank solo won the first match in over 2 months. havent got another pop since. its Ridiculous......

After 2 weeks of the new update, the team ranked ques are dead:mad:

You made it this time Bioware ..you made the remaining pvp guilds who came from Pvp servers , get wiped!

I believe that was your goal here .,.to make another stupid grid game and you want players to pay for that?

Why you force pvp community do something else than what they like ..

Why you change the lose/win ratio in trs? Look the results now you FOOLISH devs!!!!

7 years ..I play from 15 December 2011, haven't see worse update on gear system.

I have the rights to blame you devs ..for one time ..I have the rights to say what you do on gear part the last years (CXP, now grid in a Mars like planet) is WRONG.Because I PAY you all these years ..plus I payed 76 euros to get the game 6 months before release ..so you Bioware , own me an explaination!

Already within a week, 4 friends not only delete all their toons, but they delete accounts too .

Do something ..do something fast, increase the shard obtain per week or add them to the CXP system...otherwise in max 4 months , the servers will be ready for shut down!!!

Players really dont care about whether tr was competetive or no with mat farmers BUT WE JUST WANT TO PLAY THIS CONTENT. If mat farmers made tr alive pls return them back. We dont care what you do to make tr alive again but if you wont do it you can say goodbye to many pvp players who just want to queue, get pops and fight with their friends in one team. Just check ur statistic information and see how dead tr has become over all servers

Couple mat farming change with awful gear grind, I am pretty sure it all adds up to less players queing for activities in general.

Had they focused on gameplay and content instead of adding a NEW stupid not-fun, redundant gear grind the state of the game would be better. They made this bed now must lay in it. RIP SWTOR.

RIP SWTOR.

Thankfully PvP isn't 100% of what SWTOR is or I'd be agreeing with you.

This may come as a shock, but plenty of people, including paying subscribers, find plenty of other things to do.

Thankfully PvP isn't 100% of what SWTOR is or I'd be agreeing with you.

This may come as a shock, but plenty of people, including paying subscribers, find plenty of other things to do.

Agreed, but it's always like this. One person complains about something (albeit in this case rightfully so, because the 50 matches for Ranked are ridiculous) and all the SWTOR doomsayers who have been saying the game is dying or dead for 6 years come flocking to that post like moths to a flame to repeat the exact same arguments they have been repeating time and again for 6 years. Their posts are becoming tedious to read, tbh, because it's never something new.

Thankfully PvP isn't 100% of what SWTOR is or I'd be agreeing with you.

This may come as a shock, but plenty of people, including paying subscribers, find plenty of other things to do.

I certainly find more than enough to keep myself busy; I chronically feel behind, which is ridiculous as it's a game and meant to be fun. Purely out of curiosity, is it known what percentage of players PvP? I ask only because I don't PvP myself, so I have no idea how popular it is. From the forums I cans see that people are passionate about it, but I don't know what that translates into in terms of numbers.

Agreed, but it's always like this. One person complains about something (albeit in this case rightfully so, because the 50 matches for Ranked are ridiculous) and all the SWTOR doomsayers who have been saying the game is dying or dead for 6 years come flocking to that post like moths to a flame to repeat the exact same arguments they have been repeating time and again for 6 years. Their posts are becoming tedious to read, tbh, because it's never something new.

You mustve missed all the server closures along the way that offers proof that the game doesn't have the numbers it did. Multiple decisions were decried, devs take forever to address them, and folks quit. People come to the forums, post in the hopes that someone in charge might read it and comprehend that folks are unhappy. The person didn't say the game was dead, only dying. Server merges and closures would definitely support that statement.

Purely out of curiosity, is it known what percentage of players PvP?

Truth: we don't know, which is essentially true with every aspect of the game, and that is, a core group of players for feature xyz is undefinable by size, yet passionate about it as demonstrated by their rage quit posts, almost-rage quit posts, etc. PvP, PvE, whatever the game feature is, participation rate is unknowable.

People on these forums forever make asinine claims that they know the size or can impute the size of a given feature's participation rate given subjective observations a, b, c, d, and sometimes e, but in truth, all such claims are baseless.

A participation rate (a ratio) is x number of players doing something out of all players who could, i.e., out of the game's total population, a number which EA never releases.

Unless EA releases hard stats on player participation rates per activity, we'll never really know. And if someone ever claims that they do, they're lying to themselves as well as everyone else.

Purely out of curiosity, is it known what percentage of players PvP? I ask only because I don't PvP myself, so I have no idea how popular it is.

Less than ever would be my guess. Around 3.0 PVP was probably at it's height. Systemic changes to the game making gearing alts harder, making customization to stats more difficult, not changing the PVP meta up enough etc. have all put a significant clamp on PVP pushing most long time vet PVPers away.

As for the game doing well in other areas, well that's arguable too. I don't know of one storymode player, one conquest player, one PVE player who says the game is now better than ever. Not one. That indicates to me the game is definitely hurting in all departments, not just PVP.

Don't get me wrong, I realize the game offers a lot for many people, just not as much as it once did.

I only express my disappointment from my own personal perspective. I don't expect everyone to agree nor do I think my thoughts and feelings make it factual what is going on with SWTOR.

Truth: we don't know, which is essentially true with every aspect of the game, and that is, a core group of players for feature xyz is undefinable by size, yet passionate about it as demonstrated by their rage quit posts, almost-rage quit posts, etc. PvP, PvE, whatever the game feature is, participation rate is unknowable.

 

People on these forums forever make asinine claims that they know the size or can impute the size of a given feature's participation rate given subjective observations a, b, c, d, and sometimes e, but in truth, all such claims are baseless.

 

A participation rate (a ratio) is x number of players doing something out of all players who could, i.e., out of the game's total population, a number which EA never releases.

 

Unless EA releases hard stats on player participation rates per activity, we'll never really know. And if someone ever claims that they do, they're lying to themselves as well as everyone else.

I suspected as much. But thanks for the answer.

Less than ever would be my guess. Around 3.0 PVP was probably at it's height. Systemic changes to the game making gearing alts harder, making customization to stats more difficult, not changing the PVP meta up enough etc. have all put a significant clamp on PVP pushing most long time vet PVPers away.

 

As for the game doing well in other areas, well that's arguable too. I don't know of one storymode player, one conquest player, one PVE player who says the game is now better than ever. Not one. That indicates to me the game is definitely hurting in all departments, not just PVP.

 

Don't get me wrong, I realize the game offers a lot for many people, just not as much as it once did.

 

I only express my disappointment from my own personal perspective. I don't expect everyone to agree nor do I think my thoughts and feelings make it factual what is going on with SWTOR.

Thanks for the reply. I love the game so I hope it carries on, but I also hope that 6.0 does as much as it can to remedy the concerns you and others have expressed on this forum. The more happy players, the better for us all.

Agreed, but it's always like this. One person complains about something (albeit in this case rightfully so, because the 50 matches for Ranked are ridiculous) and all the SWTOR doomsayers who have been saying the game is dying or dead for 6 years come flocking to that post like moths to a flame to repeat the exact same arguments they have been repeating time and again for 6 years. Their posts are becoming tedious to read, tbh, because it's never something new.

Oh, it's funny that you think it's only been six years of doomsayers. I think the first batch of chicken littles started when the game was in Alpha development. Also, I don't necessarily think all of the whiners even play or ever played the game.

Truth: we don't know, which is essentially true with every aspect of the game, and that is, a core group of players for feature xyz is undefinable by size, yet passionate about it as demonstrated by their rage quit posts, almost-rage quit posts, etc. PvP, PvE, whatever the game feature is, participation rate is unknowable.

 

People on these forums forever make asinine claims that they know the size or can impute the size of a given feature's participation rate given subjective observations a, b, c, d, and sometimes e, but in truth, all such claims are baseless.

 

A participation rate (a ratio) is x number of players doing something out of all players who could, i.e., out of the game's total population, a number which EA never releases.

 

Unless EA releases hard stats on player participation rates per activity, we'll never really know. And if someone ever claims that they do, they're lying to themselves as well as everyone else.

The game is now small enough that intelligent people can observe and count on the servers and tell the approximate total daily population. It's been posted on here numerous times over the past few months.

The word "baseless" in this context means that the people making the claims are not doing so based on any observed data. This is not the case. Many posters come on here and use counts of participants at specific times on all 5 servers to make their claims. This is relatively easy to do via the search feature in game. It's also easy to tell if ranked is popping at all. so if not, that proves a maximum number that are que'd at the time.

Participation ratio is meaningless in this context. People play content for rewards far more often than they will admit. This behavior, the "hamster wheel" has been the defining feature of MMO's since their inception. As an example, the population playing ranked skyrocketed when those crafting mats were put in. Then in 5.10 it plummeted with the change to 50 victory points for the weekly. Do you really want to argue that suddenly all these people's preferences changed? No, of course not. They stopped participating because the reward changed.

So what data points would actually prove the popularity of an activity, say ranked PvP?

1) % of total subscribers participating in a given week

2) average number of matches played

3) average number of matches played to achieve primary reward (and secondary reward(s))

4) total number of people que'd per day who could not get a match due to lack of participants

5) total time que'd waiting for a match

Take this data, and as much more as you can get, and graph it out over time. Then, extremely importantly, compare what happens before and after any change is made to the ranked PvP experience in a patch. Then you would be able to make some statements about participation rate that could begin to tell a story of how much interest there is in ranked PvP to begin with.

All of this data is available to Bioware as I understand it. Early on, they mentioned in interviews that they were tracking these kind of things. The hope though is they used the data to make correct decisions. That's not always a given, even with a large data set like the above.

If ranked isn't popping at all now that the rewards have been scaled back, you have to consider what that participation rate tells us. And all data points to a significant decline in pops per day of ranked pvp.

The game is now small enough that intelligent people can observe and count on the servers and tell the approximate total daily population. It's been posted on here numerous times over the past few months.

 

The word "baseless" in this context means that the people making the claims are not doing so based on any observed data. This is not the case. Many posters come on here and use counts of participants at specific times on all 5 servers to make their claims. This is relatively easy to do via the search feature in game. It's also easy to tell if ranked is popping at all. so if not, that proves a maximum number that are que'd at the time.

 

Participation ratio is meaningless in this context. People play content for rewards far more often than they will admit. This behavior, the "hamster wheel" has been the defining feature of MMO's since their inception. As an example, the population playing ranked skyrocketed when those crafting mats were put in. Then in 5.10 it plummeted with the change to 50 victory points for the weekly. Do you really want to argue that suddenly all these people's preferences changed? No, of course not. They stopped participating because the reward changed.

 

So what data points would actually prove the popularity of an activity, say ranked PvP?

1) % of total subscribers participating in a given week

2) average number of matches played

3) average number of matches played to achieve primary reward (and secondary reward(s))

4) total number of people que'd per day who could not get a match due to lack of participants

5) total time que'd waiting for a match

Take this data, and as much more as you can get, and graph it out over time. Then, extremely importantly, compare what happens before and after any change is made to the ranked PvP experience in a patch. Then you would be able to make some statements about participation rate that could begin to tell a story of how much interest there is in ranked PvP to begin with.

 

All of this data is available to Bioware as I understand it. Early on, they mentioned in interviews that they were tracking these kind of things. The hope though is they used the data to make correct decisions. That's not always a given, even with a large data set like the above.

 

If ranked isn't popping at all now that the rewards have been scaled back, you have to consider what that participation rate tells us. And all data points to a significant decline in pops per day of ranked pvp.

We queue almost every day and getting nearly no pops. Per week we get like 6-7 pops lol which absolutely disastrous. The most horrible fact that before changes for weekly and appear of ossua we had 10-17 fights per day. Devs really messed up with quests and lack of insentives for playing team ranked.

The game is now small enough that intelligent people can observe and count on the servers and tell the approximate total daily population. It's been posted on here numerous times over the past few months.

 

The word "baseless" in this context means that the people making the claims are not doing so based on any observed data. This is not the case. Many posters come on here and use counts of participants at specific times on all 5 servers to make their claims. This is relatively easy to do via the search feature in game. It's also easy to tell if ranked is popping at all. so if not, that proves a maximum number that are que'd at the time.

 

Participation ratio is meaningless in this context. People play content for rewards far more often than they will admit. This behavior, the "hamster wheel" has been the defining feature of MMO's since their inception. As an example, the population playing ranked skyrocketed when those crafting mats were put in. Then in 5.10 it plummeted with the change to 50 victory points for the weekly. Do you really want to argue that suddenly all these people's preferences changed? No, of course not. They stopped participating because the reward changed.

 

So what data points would actually prove the popularity of an activity, say ranked PvP?

1) % of total subscribers participating in a given week

2) average number of matches played

3) average number of matches played to achieve primary reward (and secondary reward(s))

4) total number of people que'd per day who could not get a match due to lack of participants

5) total time que'd waiting for a match

Take this data, and as much more as you can get, and graph it out over time. Then, extremely importantly, compare what happens before and after any change is made to the ranked PvP experience in a patch. Then you would be able to make some statements about participation rate that could begin to tell a story of how much interest there is in ranked PvP to begin with.

 

All of this data is available to Bioware as I understand it. Early on, they mentioned in interviews that they were tracking these kind of things. The hope though is they used the data to make correct decisions. That's not always a given, even with a large data set like the above.

 

If ranked isn't popping at all now that the rewards have been scaled back, you have to consider what that participation rate tells us. And all data points to a significant decline in pops per day of ranked pvp.

You will never truly know the count of subscribers unless EA releases that number, no matter how much people claim they've scoured the current logins to count who is where.

You will never truly know the count of subscribers unless EA releases that number, no matter how much people claim they've scoured the current logins to count who is where.

Nobody asked about the number of subscribers. This is about whether Team Ranked is dead.

Oh, it's funny that you think it's only been six years of doomsayers. I think the first batch of chicken littles started when the game was in Alpha development. Also, I don't necessarily think all of the whiners even play or ever played the game.

Oh I believe you without a second thought! It's just that I personally have been seeing the doomsayers for 6 years already, hence why I used that specific number but I am convinced that even the moment SWTOR was announced that there were people saying "the game is dead/dying".

Do I think the game is still in its glory days? Nope, those days are long gone. Do I know that the playerbase has shrunk? Yes, I am very well aware of that. Do I think the game is dying? Absolutely kriffin' not. The playerbase may not have been what it used to be, we may have had server merges, but the game is nowhere near being dead. Did the dev team make bad decisions? Heck yeah they did, but what's done is done and saying that those decisions killed the game comes across as rather melodramatic.

What people need to understand is that 5.10 wasn't the final patch, that the things they did with gearing for example isn't here to stay. The public outcry has been significant, just as big if not bigger than with Galactic Command. I bet you that after the Christmas holidays (yes, the devs are humans as well and need holidays too) they're going to work on fixing things to appease players again.

The server population after the merges is MORE than healthy from my experience. Warzones are popping within a minute, the same goes for groupfinder. GTN sales go just as fast as always and both Fleets are pleasantly busy and crowded. Both Charles Boyd and Eric Musco confirmed that what they see from their data, and they have far more data than any of us has, they can say the player population is currently healthy. And I believe them, because I'd rather trust those who have the hard data than the doomsayers with tinfoil hats repeating the same old arguments for the Force knows how long.

Thankfully PvP isn't 100% of what SWTOR is or I'd be agreeing with you.

This may come as a shock, but plenty of people, including paying subscribers, find plenty of other things to do.

Yup, i found the "cancel subscribtion" button and clicked it. and im not even a pvp'er....

Yup, i found the "cancel subscribtion" button and clicked it. and im not even a pvp'er....

It's curious however that you claim to have cancelled your subscription and yet... you're able to post on these forums, hmm... unless you still have some sub days left, which means we'll be mercifully free of one more negative poster soon enough

It's curious however that you claim to have cancelled your subscription and yet... you're able to post on these forums, hmm... unless you still have some sub days left, which means we'll be mercifully free of one more negative poster soon enough

i've said it before but i'll say it again negative or not.

When you present crap to people, expect crap in return.

imo ( and yes im still entitled to have one of those you know, no matter how negative it comes across ) this game has seen it's share of crap, and i've been here since beta launch, i cant count on my fingers how many times people have reported scammers and nothing has been done, badly patching that screwed even more up than was fixed, them leaving for holidays and just leaves the game hanging in a really bad state, them ignoreing pts posts and much much more. If they ask for feedback and they dont like what they get, then they shouldnt ask for it.

so yes im a negative poster indeed ill give you that, but isnt negative feedback the best feedback you can get ? ( or did yoda mess that one up to when he said that "its from failures we learn the most" ? ) in his own choosing of words ofcourse

Btw id love you to swing by my restaurant and ill server you a messed up meal and still charge you for it, then if you gave me negative feedback, i could simply ignore you and toss you out on your behind.

i've said it before but i'll say it again negative or not.

When you present crap to people, expect crap in return.

imo ( and yes im still entitled to have one of those you know, no matter how negative it comes across ) this game has seen it's share of crap, and i've been here since beta launch, i cant count on my fingers how many times people have reported scammers and nothing has been done, badly patching that screwed even more up than was fixed, them leaving for holidays and just leaves the game hanging in a really bad state, them ignoreing pts posts and much much more. If they ask for feedback and they dont like what they get, then they shouldnt ask for it.

so yes im a negative poster indeed ill give you that, but isnt negative feedback the best feedback you can get ? ( or did yoda mess that one up to when he said that "its from failures we learn the most" ? ) in his own choosing of words ofcourse

Negative feedback and constructive criticism are 2 seperate things and most of the "feedback" I see on these forums is anything but constructive or useful to the devs.

I am sorry you consider the content given to us as crap... but I for one absolutely do not believe the same. In my opinion we have received (most of the time) wonderful things that really made me enjoy the game. I may not have been here as long as you, but I'd like to think my 6 years of loyally playing this game counts for something.

Yes, they made bad decisions now and then, Galactic Command and the 5.10 gearing changes are 2 examples of that. But do people realise that this is not the final state that will stay forever? Galactic Command got criticised and subsequently changed. The same will be with the 5.10 gearing changes, I am convinced of that.

The game is not crap and has not given us crap. People forget all the times the devs DID listen to the players and only focus on the few times they didn't listen to player feedback. Sure, not having listened to the PTS feedback for 5.10 with gearing was a huge mistake, but that doesn't make the rest of that patch crap. We received a wonderful and amazing story where the devs listened to a majority of the playerbase asking for a return to Empire vs Republic. We got an amazing dailies area with fun quests and a beautiful environment. Sure, it's a pity the patch was so buggy, but even the devs are humans and deserve to enjoy their holidays in peace. They work tirelessly the rest of the year for us or have we forgotten all the times they worked on emergency patches in the weekends or their free days?

Oh I believe you without a second thought! It's just that I personally have been seeing the doomsayers for 6 years already, hence why I used that specific number but I am convinced that even the moment SWTOR was announced that there were people saying "the game is dead/dying".

 

Do I think the game is still in its glory days? Nope, those days are long gone. Do I know that the playerbase has shrunk? Yes, I am very well aware of that. Do I think the game is dying? Absolutely kriffin' not. The playerbase may not have been what it used to be, we may have had server merges, but the game is nowhere near being dead. Did the dev team make bad decisions? Heck yeah they did, but what's done is done and saying that those decisions killed the game comes across as rather melodramatic.

 

What people need to understand is that 5.10 wasn't the final patch, that the things they did with gearing for example isn't here to stay. The public outcry has been significant, just as big if not bigger than with Galactic Command. I bet you that after the Christmas holidays (yes, the devs are humans as well and need holidays too) they're going to work on fixing things to appease players again.

 

The server population after the merges is MORE than healthy from my experience. Warzones are popping within a minute, the same goes for groupfinder. GTN sales go just as fast as always and both Fleets are pleasantly busy and crowded. Both Charles Boyd and Eric Musco confirmed that what they see from their data, and they have far more data than any of us has, they can say the player population is currently healthy. And I believe them, because I'd rather trust those who have the hard data than the doomsayers with tinfoil hats repeating the same old arguments for the Force knows how long.

Are you blind or something? I quoted in my original post a few messages from pvp forum where people also complaining that tr became much dead since 5.10 + i wrote my personal experience on both sf and dm servers where my team queued for weeks and we only had a few fights. Maybe collect a team and try to queue yourself to see how bad is it. You will be lucky if at least one team will be in queue. You forum warriors know nothing about what is happening in the game because all you do is typing on forum. Gladly i came here to inform devs not you. If team ranked will fully die (and it is almost dead) i can only imagine how many pvp players will quit the game

Negative feedback and constructive criticism are 2 seperate things and most of the "feedback" I see on these forums is anything but constructive or useful to the devs.

 

I am sorry you consider the content given to us as crap... but I for one absolutely do not believe the same. In my opinion we have received (most of the time) wonderful things that really made me enjoy the game. I may not have been here as long as you, but I'd like to think my 6 years of loyally playing this game counts for something.

 

Yes, they made bad decisions now and then, Galactic Command and the 5.10 gearing changes are 2 examples of that. But do people realise that this is not the final state that will stay forever? Galactic Command got criticised and subsequently changed. The same will be with the 5.10 gearing changes, I am convinced of that.

 

The game is not crap and has not given us crap. People forget all the times the devs DID listen to the players and only focus on the few times they didn't listen to player feedback. Sure, not having listened to the PTS feedback for 5.10 with gearing was a huge mistake, but that doesn't make the rest of that patch crap. We received a wonderful and amazing story where the devs listened to a majority of the playerbase asking for a return to Empire vs Republic. We got an amazing dailies area with fun quests and a beautiful environment. Sure, it's a pity the patch was so buggy, but even the devs are humans and deserve to enjoy their holidays.

i get what you are saying, i really do.

but im not talking about the story in 5.10 or the gear issue, im talking about EVERYTHING in the history of swtor here, how EA has demolished everything good in this game, how they won the golden turd 2 years in a row, how they treated their customers in this game, how scamming is "allowed" ( in its own form of abuses ingame ), how bugs from launch and tickets are still running (i have 5 tickets from launch that has never been adresse plus i have been multicharged on my credit card a couple of times for one account and had to "prove" it was their mistake and not mine) how they screwed people over with missing cc, how they keep introducing bugs after bugs and leaves people hanging still taking their money and offering no or very little in return of compensation for the time spent waiting for them to fix things, how they paid people to give them "good rep" on medias when everthing was going to he.l etc etc.

I could really go on forever about all these things, but ill just say that no company in the history of any mmo has done a worse job and no matter how hard we all ( yes i really do want them to do good with the game, i really do) try to tell them they need to fix things to get a propper game working and draw in more customers, they just keep ignore us and present lousy fixes and bad solutions time after time. so yes, im p.o'd about it now, as i've been before, and ill keep doing it until they either

1 fix their stuff

or

2 hand over the game to another company that has an actual interrest in getting the game runing smoothly.

or in worst case scenario

3 shut it off entirely