Thank your wise masters (plz read in Dani voice) at Bioware. I can't even participate in ranked thanks to the genius decision to remove Harbinger and replace it with the train-wreck that is satele shan. Our guild was international in nature and it just dissolved thanks to it being unplayable thanks to unbearable lag. I'm the last one left thanks to my high tolerance for bull****. Pre 5.5 we had enough numbers for two teams at once.

Servers were merged thanks to players asking for it, particularly PvP players like yourself. Not sure if you were one of them but there you go, don't really feel sorry for you. When BW merged the servers they had to do it in such a way that was financially viable for them. Far to many of you made the assumption you be OK damn everyone else as long as you were getting pops. Did not work out that way but again there you go. Won't get any sympathy from me. More to the point not every player who has complained is from Setele Shan, so not unique to that server. So blaming it on that is not even accurate for the whole PvP based group.

One of the reasons (definitely not the only reason) that ranked and pvp in general is dying is because of this abortive gearing grind, slot locked changes and set bonuses not working.

All 3 of those are major issues for a fair number of pvpers. People I know just aren’t logging in or playing pvp till they fix. They don’t want to waste their time or energy on something that obviously needs to be and will ultimately be changed.

Others have just had enough and reached their breaking point with Bioware and their dumb decision. Aka massive gear grind and making the old gearing system obsolete.

There are so many other reasons too that pvp in the game is dying. Not just ranked. We’ve all been posting about it since 5.0 was released.

It’s plain and simple from my perspective. Bioware just don’t care what the players want. They don’t care what we consider fun. As far as they are concerned if we don’t play the way they want us to play then we can all unsubscribe and stop playing.

AND that is why the game is diminishing faster than any of us “doom sayers” predicted. Bioware really don’t understand that if you don’t cater to the customers wants they will go else where and revenue will continue to fall till they can’t make new content or have jobs to go to.

Short sightedness or poor business managers or not caring about the game’s future. Take your pick. I can’t see any other reason they keep making the same mistakes over and over.

Yeah honestly the changes to the number required for the weekly may have worked if Ranked was already super competitive and had lots of players. But it's not that way right right now sadly. So I feel like that change is just taking more teams out of queue...

And 50 matches is a bit much, even for some dedicated pvpers.

Let’s say for arguments sake that matches go between 6-9 minutes and you lose every match.

6 x 50 = 5 hours

9 x 50 = 7.5 hours

(Not including time in the queue)

Now consider granked prime time is only 1-2 hours a day during the week and you can run into the problem of not having enough time to get 50 matches.

There are now more granked premades in regs than before because they can’t get matches. This is driving casuals from reg pvp as well. It’s one big snow ball effect and is going to contribute to finishing off pvp in this game.

At least we’ll get ranked 8 man back (in a de facto way) because all the ranked guys will be left playing reg pvp again.

Servers were merged thanks to players asking for it, particularly PvP players like yourself. Not sure if you were one of them but there you go, don't really feel sorry for you. When BW merged the servers they had to do it in such a way that was financially viable for them. Far to many of you made the assumption you be OK damn everyone else as long as you were getting pops. Did not work out that way but again there you go. Won't get any sympathy from me. More to the point not every player who has complained is from Setele Shan, so not unique to that server. So blaming it on that is not even accurate for the whole PvP based group.

Never advocated for a merge once. NOT ONCE. Server merging to artificially inflate population is idiotic. I have said this numerous times. I don't bi*** about slow queue pops either. If people don't want to pvp they don't want to pvp. When pops are slow you do something else or log off.

Satele Shan is defacto west coast even if it says east coast North America. It consisted of west coast servers (Harbinger and Bastion) pre 5.5. and it was assumed by all that it would remain there. Just because all the east coasters lucked out and got the best deal doesn't change the fact that what happened was dirty, sneaky and a betrayal of trust.

Then let it die, Oh sorry no need, it's already dead in which case it be pointless for BW to spend any more time or money on it.

 

I was on at 3am last night on Ossus and there were enough players even at that time for players to do the flesh and steel quest. So there is still a player base. Clearly not enough interested in PvP if its dead. It has nothing to do with rewards either. I play story and get zero rewards as any equipment I get is already many levels below my characters level. I do story because that's what I enjoy. If the player base enjoyed PvP so much, they would do it because that's what they enjoy. If not then clearly not enough enjoy it. In which case time for BW to cut it from the game. However after a few more weeks I do expect some players on Ossus to return to what they were doing before 5.10 and yes some will return to PvP. Since these thread predate 5.10 though clearly PvP's days are numbered. I Ifor one won't be sorry to see that day come.

 

I also agree with what a few others have said, I have been hearing this "the game is dead" solely because some don't get pops for PvP. yet game is still here after 7 years. Many other games are not and did not last this long. Any game year on year will have a shrinkage in player numbers. This game is no different, yes one day this game will end. "All good things" as they say.

I cant really agree with this since rewards paying a great role for content being alive. Even if players hated to play tr it was alive until 5.10 because players could get nice rewards, mats which they could sell and buy what they like. So it was like playing content they dislike in order to get what they like. Thats how mmo is working, players in wow HATE local quests and long reputation grind but guess what? Yes they still do local quests and grinding reputation to be able to get best rewards and gear. No carrot = no activity. Thx to reward hunters those who actually LIKED TEAM RANKED (like me and my friends) could play their favorite content. Now thanks to devs we cant

Calm down guys, this all will be fixed in "just" 1.5 - 2 months, maybe.

Nah, by then it will be a “feature”

I'm thinking it's time to let pvp slide down the list of priorities to where GSF is at.

Seems pretty clear they already taking this route.

With all the changes that hinder PVPers to gear and customize gears for PVP, along with not changing the power balance and meta of combat in PVP for over 2 years less PVPers are on the game than ever.

For all those who celebrate the death of PVP on this game, you ought not because all that means is lesser population and less revenue coming in which means less game development and an even quicker shutdown.

So be careful what you wish for. It's never smart to cut off your nose just to spite your own face.

because mat farmers lost the incentive to get stomped

I guess that this could be a chain reaction :

No cattle to feed ... err ... no farmers to stomp anymore -> domination players have no incentive to play anymore, too ... PvP population loses domination players ...

Those who were happy with someone to stomp upon are leaving now because there is no-one anymore there to stomp upon.

I guess that this could be a chain reaction :

 

No cattle to feed ... err ... no farmers to stomp anymore -> domination players have no incentive to play anymore, too ... PvP population loses domination players ...

 

Those who were happy with someone to stomp upon are leaving now because there is no-one anymore there to stomp upon.

Thats what i wrote when i compared team ranked and A food chain in message number 41 of tis thread. It is a bit more complex though since this chain includes not only mat farmers and top teams but also has something in the middle (decent teams, learning teams). In any case without lesser parts of this chain tr became pretty dead....

One of the reasons (definitely not the only reason) that ranked and pvp in general is dying is because of this abortive gearing grind, slot locked changes and set bonuses not working.

All 3 of those are major issues for a fair number of pvpers. People I know just aren’t logging in or playing pvp till they fix. They don’t want to waste their time or energy on something that obviously needs to be and will ultimately be changed.

Others have just had enough and reached their breaking point with Bioware and their dumb decision. Aka massive gear grind and making the old gearing system obsolete.

There are so many other reasons too that pvp in the game is dying. Not just ranked. We’ve all been posting about it since 5.0 was released.

It’s plain and simple from my perspective. Bioware just don’t care what the players want. They don’t care what we consider fun. As far as they are concerned if we don’t play the way they want us to play then we can all unsubscribe and stop playing.

AND that is why the game is diminishing faster than any of us “doom sayers” predicted. Bioware really don’t understand that if you don’t cater to the customers wants they will go else where and revenue will continue to fall till they can’t make new content or have jobs to go to.

Short sightedness or poor business managers or not caring about the game’s future. Take your pick. I can’t see any other reason they keep making the same mistakes over and over.

Nah, those few reasons you wrote are overall problems for all types of pvp content not only ranked. The real two reasons tr died: changes to weekly quests which scared out mat farmers and lack of new incentives for playing like (i mean a quest which requires completing for example 10 tr games with 1 masterwork data crystal as reward). Devs really messed up with tr and now it died, they dont understand the responsibility for changes they provide with new patches

Devs really messed up with tr and now it died, they dont understand the responsibility for changes they provide with new patches

The familiar story that keeps repeating itself, over and over again. This is right. ^

Long story short I stopped playing when the gearing required me to do things in the game I never did before as well as making it a bigger chore and drain to try to gear alts through this ****** gear grind.

Yes, gears do matter in PVP and if I cannot min/max at a rate I feel is acceptable to compete on even ground with others I simply won't bother playing. Gearing ought to be engaging and fun, not like a full time job or chore-like.

All they had to do was change up some of the classes, add some different abilities, or just adjust the numbers so the same classes were not OP'd and the same classes were not trash and I would have stayed. No gear grind needed, no new content. That's all I needed as a PVPer. I could have waited for new content in a big patch further down the line, but that's just because my focus was always PVP first. I realize others are different.

Thankfully PvP isn't 100% of what SWTOR is or I'd be agreeing with you.

This may come as a shock, but plenty of people, including paying subscribers, find plenty of other things to do

Agreed, but it's always like this. One person complains about something (albeit in this case rightfully so, because the 50 matches for Ranked are ridiculous) and all the SWTOR doomsayers who have been saying the game is dying or dead for 6 years come flocking to that post like moths to a flame to repeat the exact same arguments they have been repeating time and again for 6 years. Their posts are becoming tedious to read, tbh, because it's never something new.

Indeed. I think we're all guilty of posting our moans about what we want to see improved or put back in the game because the forums are a good outlet for moaning. Most of us don't refer to the game dying (or being dead) because of game content being removed or changed in the way the OP has. The game is not yet dead (and I suspect with the revenue they get from the CM it is very far from dead). I moan all the time about companions not being in the story content, but I've never properly cancelled my sub and/or claimed the game is dead because of my own views). xordevoreaux is right; there is plenty for me still to do - just yesterday I made a list of the achievement titles I still want to get so I have that to do. As far as 50 ranked PvP - constructive criticism might be listened to by the Devs (as that number is excessive) rather than just doom-saying.

Jesus christ...indeed since 5.10 team ranked has minimum pops. I got like 2-3 pops per day during prime time and nothing more omg do devs really understand what they are doing? With one patch they just killed team ranked

well all they heard was complaints about Mat farmers, so they made a change to get rid of them by making it 50 points for the weekly, 1 point per loss, 5 per win. They did what everyone asked for and clearly the Material farmers disappeared. Evidently so did the queu when they stopped queuing.

People wanted competitive matches, but by getting rid of mat farmers there evidently is nobody else in queu for those competitive matches. The devs did what the people asked for, and it bit the people in the bum in the process.

Jesus christ...indeed since 5.10 team ranked has minimum pops. I got like 2-3 pops per day during prime time and nothing more omg do devs really understand what they are doing? With one patch they just killed team ranked

I know the thread is about TR, but I am pretty sure all other facets of the game have been impacted negatively by this 5.10 patch. There's absolutely no way the game was improved with this patch.

They would have been better to not add a gear grind, and to have just left the game alone tbh. Granted it was stale and the meta has gotten boring especially in PVP, but at least the game would not have regressed.

5.10 has only done the game harm in so many ways it's almost comical. Adding a patch that ought to bring improvements and enjoyment to a game but instead brings disappointment and sadness.

They would have been better to not add a gear grind, and to have just left the game alone tbh. Granted it was stale and the meta has gotten boring especially in PVP, but at least the game would not have regressed.

.

Folks want content over function. These Devs can't do both especially while they are over working on Anthem.

Because PVP here is a mofo ugly garbage that no one even wants to play except regular WZs for components and stuff. Every time I want to complain about WoW's PVP I just recall how stupidly and radically unbalanced that of SWTOR. I don't even mention extremely poor technical performance of anything involving PVP in this game - 3 or something frames per second in the most intense fights is not even a joke, it's an abomination.

Who even cares? Good riddance, I'll piss on the grave of The Old Republic's PVP part any day.

Well, it seems to me as if all you have now are all competitive players which are still there.

[...]

And to put it more cynically, the situation now is in my eyes merely the result of Ranked players' behaviour towards the plebs.

It's as if you bully someone and then wonder why no-one wants to play with you.

So, to me, it's just whining.

Well, to be a bit more ontopic, i think this was not quoted enough. I am not a pvp player. I am bad at it, simply put. But for mats and conquest, i used to que for it. And don't ask me how, even i don't understand, in season 8 I got a bronze flair... Hell, I don't even know if that is a thing worth mentioning or not!

But this 5 losses/win ratio... is simply bad. And is the ranked players whining about mats-farming who got it in. So... enjoy it! Now only dedicated, high performance ranked pvp-ers are in que! I'm out.

P.S I hope I can submit this, as this is my last subscription day. Because I ain't writing it again!

I pvp, enough to do the 70 weekly for regs [20 matches or 10 wins]. I can certainly agree that BW screwed up with regards to the sheer number of matches needed for ranked. I can also agree that it's rather...irritating, to have someone who clearly doesn't participate in x activity try to police you. I haven't done a lot of ranked, only enough to get a feel for it, but I think I have somewhat more knowledge on the subject than Y...you know who.

Still, to me the kicker here [and I'm surprised no one mentioned it, it invariably comes in any convo about ranked] is:

We queue almost every day and getting nearly no pops. Per week we get like 6-7 pops lol which absolutely disastrous. The most horrible fact that before changes for weekly and appear of ossua we had 10-17 fights per day. Devs really messed up with quests and lack of insentives for playing team ranked.

this idea of incentives. Rewards, yes, but also

a) despite the claims of OP and others, ranked players complained about mat farmers endlessly. They certainly complained in the solo matches whenever they lost or someone thought x player was a mat farmer, and it wouldn't be difficult to find plenty of threads excoriating mat farmers. Congrats, BW listened to that feedback. Guess they shouldn't have been so picky, eh?

b) There's rewards and there's rewards. That is, there's the reward you get for the quest turn-in, and there's the reward you get for playing. Ranked players care about rankings, and skill. But when you're trying ranked for the first time, you just want to have fun.

There are a lot of mean players in this game, but by far the most concentrated selection of online jerks are in ranked. Not all of them, certainly; if you're in a guild doing TR you can have a good time. But imo, the vast majority in solo ranked are poisonous cranks who bullied and harassed anyone who threatened to lower their rating. So for those, I have zero sympathy. You want more pops? Maybe don't be such anti-social cretins to new players, yeah?

Even when mat farming was around, I still learned quite quickly that there was NO incentive for me to suffer through even the daily ranked. It just wasn't worth the aggravation. And I remember complaining about it on here once and getting abuse from ranked players who thought I was a crybaby. Well, who's crying now, folks? I agree with Lhance that PVP in general isn't doing so well, but when your population is shrinking, it is unwise to demand changes while simultaneously behaving egregiously bad in-game. You don't get compassion from players or devs that way.

Note: since I'm probably going to get flamed for this: NOT ALL PVPers. NOT ALL RANKED. But a lot of pvpers? Most of Ranked? When your playerbase has a universally horrendous reputation, it's hard to understand the surprise that other players are immediately prejudiced against the lot of you.

Thx to reward hunters those who actually LIKED TEAM RANKED (like me and my friends) could play their favorite content. Now thanks to devs we cant

More like thanks to that portion of PVP community who came here to complain about the farmers. I did the farming several times (assumed that if entire team agrees that it's a farm and we won't last a minute against professional pvpers it'll be OK). Then read on the forums that farmers are ruining the activity and stopped farming long before BW introduced the changes, simply because I don't want to ruin anybody's fun.

Devs just removed remaining portion of farmers who either never read those complains or didn't care.

I played a lot of ranked in season 9... I had over 200k season tokens and I couldn't make myelf play even half of that in season 10.

Ranked is full mom's basement fat kids who like to act like pixel machos and insulting anyone who doesn't live up to their expectations. This behaviour over time led to the decline of ranked population which was pretty significant in the last years..

Now you see those clowns begging PVP chat for people to que which I always find hilarious.

team ranked died ? Oh really ?

Well.. last time I checked the forums before 5.10, Ranked ppl were complaining about mat farmers in que. Bioware listened and took action. Now team ranked doesn't pop since there was never any real interest to play it....

People qued team ranked for greed only. Most of them anyway and now try hards cannot farm rating.

There is no drama if it doesn't pop. You can always que unranked. That is still pretty healthy in population.

I played a lot of ranked in season 9... I had over 200k season tokens and I couldn't make myelf play even half of that in season 10.

 

Ranked is full mom's basement fat kids who like to act like pixel machos and insulting anyone who doesn't live up to their expectations. This behaviour over time led to the decline of ranked population which was pretty significant in the last years..

 

Now you see those clowns begging PVP chat for people to que which I always find hilarious.

 

team ranked died ? Oh really ?

 

Well.. last time I checked the forums before 5.10, Ranked ppl were complaining about mat farmers in que. Bioware listened and took action. Now team ranked doesn't pop since there was never any real interest to play it....

 

People qued team ranked for greed only. Most of them anyway and now try hards cannot farm rating.

 

There is no drama if it doesn't pop. You can always que unranked. That is still pretty healthy in population.

You and others who claim about complaining about mat farmers aren't considering one tiny, small feature - THEY COMPLAINED ABOUT FARMERS IN SOLO RANKED. Not IN TEAM RANKED

You wont find any thread where someone complains about mat farmers in tr. everyone knew that it was NEEDED. But in solo ranked situation is different. Even without mat farming sr was always more alive than tr. And mat farmers in sr only make it worse because skilled players suffering, learning players suffering, EVERYONE suffering. The formula of success of making ranked alive is pretty easy: sr - no mat farmers, tr - more mat farmers. Ez as that lol