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Unsure what to make of this


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I'd like the opinion of you guys on something that just happened to me. Someone was asking for people to join their 16 member Scum and Villiany ops group. I told the guy that I'd never done the raid before but that I would heal if they were kind enough to explain it. He did a gear check and then invited me. I once again stated that I did not know the fights once I joined the ops group and even downloaded mumble specifically so that they could explain the fights to me. I wasn't the only person who didn't know the fights either.

 

We all zone in and wait for a few moments. Plenty of chatter on mumble, but no explanation about the first fight. We all go to the first boss and begin doing our thing under the shield and then we move to the next shield. During this transition, I notice some of the members becoming frantic at the speed we were moving, or specifically, not moving. We did however eventually move to the next shield.

 

Upon the shield becoming clickable, I (like an idiot) clicked it, not realizing that I was then required to move the group to the next location. As I had no idea what I was doing, I start to wander aimlessly and it becomes clear within seconds that I am not going the right way. I become more frantic as the abuse becomes much stronger (I'm also hearing it on mumble as well as reading it in chat) and this just makes it worse. The group wipes, one guy leaves and almost everyone continues hurling abuse at me, with "f****** idiot" being amongst the worst that I managed to catch, since the text was scrolling so fast.

 

I stayed briefly, long enough to explain that I did say I didn't know the fights but nobody saw it my way. I left, feeling pretty crap.

 

I've been in raids before where people were clueless, and made dumb mistakes that wiped the group, and have NEVER seen a reaction as bad as that. Maybe it's just me, but I'd feel sorry for someone doing a raid for the first time who got a reaction like that to an admittedly stupid mistake. Am I wrong to feel crap? Was it 100% my fault or am I justified in feeling hard done-by? I really don't know to be honest, so I am looking for honest opinions. But, it seems to me that if people react like this to dying in a game, they can't enjoy the game and then, really, why are they playing it? When did laughing off a mistake, followed by some guidance, become a thing of the past? Or, did I just get a really bad bunch?

Edited by AnAnonymousGuy
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obviously the raid was justified after you wiped them because you didnt bother to look at your mini map, take direction, look out there for the next shield spot, or notice anything. It sounds like you tunnel visioned and panicked. Having not had anyone explain the fight to me my first time in there I figured it out simply by opening my eyes and looking around. It sounds like you need to improve your situational awareness.
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They made the mistake of not bothering to explain the fight to you, so they share a bit of the blame, but the fact that you *clicked the shield* without knowing *anything* about it places a majority of the blame on you. Seriously, if you don't know the content, don't touch anything unless people are explicitly telling you to click it. They were at fault for not telling you to *not* click it, but, honestly, not clicking stuff *shouldn't* be something that has to be explained.
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All the pros and l33ts there should have made clear who was on shield duty. Raid leader failed to make that kind of thing to clear everybody. His fault. You made a mistake. So did they.

 

And no , the abusive jerks werent justified.

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Being a jerk is never justified. Had you been a pug in my guild doing S&V, we would certainly take the time to make sure you knew the fight. If you accidentally clicked on the shield, we might be a bit annoyed and tell you "um, dude, you weren't supposed to click on that" but we'd guide you in the direction you should run. The reason why these people were just calling out abuse is because they were completely out of control themselves and had no idea how to actually help you.

 

The only thing I'd ask for you, is did you ask the group what to do with the shield? Like "which direction? What am I looking for?"

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First, you have my sympathy for their abuse. That you were willing to download and install mumble for this raid, and able to successfully configure it, already puts you above about 80% of the pugs we encounter. That alone would warrant you some respect from our groups. And the fact they didn't even bother to review the basic mechanics I find to be completely unacceptable. What exactly is the point of inviting pugs to your VOIP if you aren't going to spend 30 seconds to explain how you expect the fight to go? This group really needed to add "please know fights" to their LFG message.

 

As others have said, you should be more cautious about clicking things in raids. Clicky things are very important mechanics in raids, and specific people are generally given the job of doing whatever is necessary there. So you can reasonably expect that if you are going to have to click on something at some point, the raid leader will tell you what it is and when. So even if you knew exactly what direction to run and what speed would make everyone happy (hah, gotcha, there is no such speed!), you would still be wrong to take the shield.

 

As a healer, there is usually very little for you to do but stick with the group (usually stand somewhere near where the ranged DPS go) and heal. But if a group is really not offering any mechanics, you can always ask "are there any burn/high aoe damage phases to worry about?" It is something that is important for you to know for managing energy and cooldowns, and should clue in a more experienced healer to give you some tips.

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The guy who invited you is clearly terrible. A gear check? Really?

 

Pretty sure the requirements for Scum and Villainy consists of a potato and a bit of string.

 

OT: PuG's gonna PuG.

 

Seriously tho, I don't know why upon seeing a shiny blue thing, people set upon it like wild animals. It's the same in every Operation PuG'd ever. Curiosity killed the cat, and that's why you died thinking the Ancient Knowledge on Voss was a Lore Object.

 

Not saying that everyone should know the content like the back of their hand, but it doesn't hurt you to take 2 minutes to check Dulfy (or TOR website of choice) for a strategy.

 

Moral of the story, join a guild.

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I'd say it was the reponsibility of the raid leader to instruct you on the mechanics and everything you have know to fullfill your role and than take the time to answer your questions. Your lead seems to have been incompetent and the group at least partly composed of representives of the ogogogo faction we all love so much.

 

The lead should keep the raid cool and focussed by giving short and clear commands and advising people to keep silence and only call out things that are relevant for the actual fight.

 

With a good lead and the right people in a raid group everyone will be civil and calm.

You'll have a good idea of the boss fight from the first explanation.

In fight experienced people will keep an eye on newbies and tell them when they are doing something wrong.

Nobody will be swearing and only call out things necessary.

If something still goes wrong and the raid wipes there will be a short analysis of what went wrong and how to do better.

A good lead will be able to keep up the motivation and keep down the mutter.

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Well, thank you to everyone who's replied. I'd just like to clarify that I know I'd made a mistake and I would have spammed the chat with apologies, had they given me the chance. I am actually already in a guild, but they're pretty small so not really able to do a 16 man op.

 

When I clicked it, I just thought it would "repower" the shield we were under, not that I'd become some mobile shield or something. Dumb mistake, one that I would have eventually liked to laugh at myself about and told others to give them a good laugh, but I won't be doing that now.

 

Thanks again to all the replies. Appreciate it.

 

The only thing I'd ask for you, is did you ask the group what to do with the shield? Like "which direction? What am I looking for?"

 

I did ask "where should I go?" and someone shouted "NORTH", so I began moving north but it still didn't seem to be the correct way. I'm gonna check the fights on Dulfy now and see exactly where I should have gone because I'm genuinely curious.

 

EDIT: Wow, so, it seems that going North was exactly the wrong direction to go lol

Edited by AnAnonymousGuy
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Regardless of what you've done their reaction is unjustifiable and moronic. If you pick up a random player from fleet general chat you must be prepared to whatever may come out of it. It is a risk, either you are willing to take it or not.

 

However, I don't think you should have responded to their LFM since:

  • You had no knowledge of the tactics.
  • You had never done S&V.

 

If you are not in a guild doing progression it is common courtesy (and sense) to learn the tactics before joining anything.

 

Furthermore it was a guild 16man, you were a pug, and you didn't even know the tactics. Why click the shield at all? There seems to be a "if it's blue I click it complex" in this game :(

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Regardless of what you've done their reaction is unjustifiable and moronic. If you pick up a random player from fleet general chat you must be prepared to whatever may come out of it. It is a risk, either you are willing to take it or not.

 

However, I don't think you should have responded to their LFM since:

  • You had no knowledge of the tactics.
  • You had never done S&V.

 

If you are not in a guild doing progression it is common courtesy (and sense) to learn the tactics before joining anything.

 

Furthermore it was a guild 16man, you were a pug, and you didn't even know the tactics. Why click the shield at all? There seems to be a "if it's blue I click it complex" in this game :(

 

It wasn't a guild run, it was just a random group put together. As I explained in my OP, I clicked the shield because of the fact people were becoming frantic at the first shield-to-second shield transition. I wanted to be helpful, that's all. Finally, I made it very clear I didn't know the fights. They could have just declined, and no harm would have been done, but they accepted me.

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It wasn't a guild run, it was just a random group put together. As I explained in my OP, I clicked the shield because of the fact people were becoming frantic at the first shield-to-second shield transition. I wanted to be helpful, that's all. Finally, I made it very clear I didn't know the fights. They could have just declined, and no harm would have been done, but they accepted me.

 

Sorry I assumed it was a guild run since you talked about being on mumble. I understand you clicked it because you were trying to help and that you informed the leasder you didn't know the tactics (something that many people don't bother doing). But still, taking the shield is the offtank's responsability, unless the raid leader says otherwise. When you click it you are assuming that responsability. It's pretty much the same as you see a guy chocking in a crowded room and you yell "don't worry I got this" when you have no idea what you are doing. Better stay still and let someone handle it.

 

But just to make it clear, they were jerks, I agree with that 100%. I'm just pointing out what I believe to be your mistakes so that this doesn't happen again to you or anyone else who reads this.

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Sorry I assumed it was a guild run since you talked about being on mumble. I understand you clicked it because you were trying to help and that you informed the leasder you didn't know the tactics (something that many people don't bother doing). But still, taking the shield is the offtank's responsability, unless the raid leader says otherwise. When you click it you are assuming that responsability. It's pretty much the same as you see a guy chocking in a crowded room and you yell "don't worry I got this" when you have no idea what you are doing. Better stay still and let someone handle it.

 

But just to make it clear, they were jerks, I agree with that 100%. I'm just pointing out what I believe to be your mistakes so that this doesn't happen again to you or anyone else who reads this.

 

I think the raid leader was just using his guild's mumble.

 

And don't worry, your points were 110% valid. I was just clearing up some of the facts that I didn't make clear in my original post. I sure as hell won't be touching anything blue again.

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Mane u ain't got NOTHING to feel sorry about. U told em from tha jump "I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M DOING, I DON'T KNOW THE FIGHT..." if they can't take time to tell u what's going on & what to expect then that's on them NOT U. Don't apologize for something that could have been avoided with a lil effort on the part of anyone who'd run it b4. Elitist fools make me sick....they just insecure coward azz ppl who love to talk tough from safe places.

 

#I'd have told everyone who went off on me to "killyoself"

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You did the right thing telling them that you didn't know the fights, and it was their choice to bring you, and it was rude for them not to explain things to you.

 

Although you shouldn't have clicked the shield without knowing the mechanics, the abuse was absolutely not justified.

 

Some people are jerks. Don't worry about it.

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Other people already said this but I'm bored, so :p

 

Cursing and abusive behaviour aren't really warranted or justified, you did say you were unfamiliar with the fights and you even joined mumble.

 

That said, I really have to wonder what's with people and clicking stuff :D If it was the first time anywhere, I wouldn't dare touch anything unless explicitly told about it... But every time I pug an ops, there somebody that goes and touches something he should... See the pylons in EV, see the fabricator consoles, people jumping in the minefield at vorgath and random channels in kephess the undying. Oh and ofc the door panel at the operations chief!

 

So yeah, learn from your mistakes, yadda yadda, don't ever touch anything in ops unless you are told to :p

Edited by GeckoOBac
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Other people already said this but I'm bored, so :p

 

Cursing and abusive behaviour aren't really warranted or justified, you did say you were unfamiliar with the fights and you even joined mumble.

 

That said, I really have to wonder what's with people and clicking stuff :D If it was the first time anywhere, I wouldn't dare touch anything unless explicitly told about it... But every time I pug an ops, there somebody that goes and touches something he should... See the pylons in EV, see the fabricator consoles, people jumping in the minefield at vorgath and random channels in kephess the undying. Oh and ofc the door panel at the operations chief!

 

So yeah, learn from your mistakes, yadda yadda, don't ever touch anything in ops unless you are told to :p

 

Funny thing is, I was actually once shouted at in HM EV for NOT doing the pylons, even though we'd agreed that the Healers wouldn't touch them, since the damage spike from the really big dude requires my full attention. It was nothing as bad as the reaction I got last night for touching the shield, but maybe this contributed to my "maybe I should be the one doing something here" mindset, I dunno.

Edited by AnAnonymousGuy
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I can understand the groups frustration with you. They should of explained the fight, but since they didn't, they probably thought that you'd just follow along and heal. You didn't know the mechanics so why would you assume that clicking the shield would help? I don't understand that part.

 

MMO 1.01: Just because there's a shiny object doesn't mean that you should click it.

 

That said, irregardless of the mistake, them swearing at you wasn't necessary, especially since it was the first pull of a PUG raid.

Edited by Radzkie
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obviously the raid was justified after you wiped them because you didnt bother to look at your mini map, take direction, look out there for the next shield spot, or notice anything. It sounds like you tunnel visioned and panicked. Having not had anyone explain the fight to me my first time in there I figured it out simply by opening my eyes and looking around. It sounds like you need to improve your situational awareness.

 

You are just that awesome. Nothing else explains it because most people need to have things broken down for them or they learn by trial and error. But not you because you are uber. Congrats!

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EDIT: Wow, so, it seems that going North was exactly the wrong direction to go lol

Actually, North *is* the correct direction to go. All characters zone in on the Southern most portion of the map. There are a string of power generators you have to run to with the final one in the northern most position.

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so I am looking for honest opinions.

 

Honest opinion:

You have thin skin, suck it up and try again with someone else.

The internet is full of rude people because of anonymity.

They didn't explain the fight, even though you told them more than once, you did your part.

Also rule #1 when in a raid where you haven't done it before is to NEVER click on anything unless told to lol. ;)

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Actually, North *is* the correct direction to go. All characters zone in on the Southern most portion of the map. There are a string of power generators you have to run to with the final one in the northern most position.

 

Ah my bad. I thought we started in the Northern part.

 

Honest opinion:

You have thin skin, suck it up and try again with someone else.

The internet is full of rude people because of anonymity.

They didn't explain the fight, even though you told them more than once, you did your part.

Also rule #1 when in a raid where you haven't done it before is to NEVER click on anything unless told to lol. ;)

 

When insulted, some people argue back, some people rage quit, and some people just stay quiet and feel like crap. However, everyone reacts, no matter what that reaction is and if you don't, there's something not right with you. It's nothing to do with having thick or thin sick. I take on board what you said, though, and thank you to you and everyone else in this thread for being honest :)

Edited by AnAnonymousGuy
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Curiosity killed the cat, and that's why you died thinking the Ancient Knowledge on Voss was a Lore Object.

 

Lol, I died to that

 

Actually it is better it happened at the beginning so they can find someone else and continue easily. I can't imagine what would happen if you guys continue until Operations chief. The fact is you learn by doing mistakes. I read Dulfy's guide 5 times and watched videos but still sucked big time at my first time at the end boss for TFB. Luckily I was with people who were willing to help me.

Edited by tanerb
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Our guild runs with pugs a lot to fill 16 man raids. Three things are a must:

 

1- Ask people to join mumble or other voip.

2- Ask people if they no the fight. If someone does not know the fight someone in our guild who does (typically same role) explain it to the person who does not.

3- Make sure to tell people some do and don'ts that may cause a wipe.

 

On another note, my advice is never ever press anything in a raid aside from lore objects, if you do not know what they do. They never do anything good :p. Still this is the raid leader fault for not giving any instructions when someone clearly stated they never done that raid before.

Edited by Ottoattack
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