Jump to content

New Operations Urgently Needed


Recommended Posts

Question for all MMO veterans (I.E more than just one mmo).

 

Is the speed at which they release new content: World Events, Flashpoints and Operations

normal?

 

Or is this slower than most?

 

For example:

 

Did/do EQ and EQ2 release Dungeons and Raids more often than SWTOR?

 

You have define generations of MMOs

 

EQ, AOC, AC ... the first gen MMOs simply did not update content ever. They used a different model; expansions. The expansions where generally on a yearly basis, and included as much (in most cases more) content then the base game. So if this was EQ1 would be looking at the ruins of Kunark trailers, with a release date of 5 months from now (ROK came out 1 year after EQ1 almost to the day). It would include (in SW:TOR terms) 20 or so new raid bosses, 10-15 new worlds (Kunark had MUCH more content then vanilla EQ1), a level cap increase to 60, and new types of epic quests. We would also be looking at spending $50 on buying that content.

 

WOW, EQ2(sub based), AO, EVE ... the second gen MMOs worked in the expansions model as well, but we less frequent in the expansions. They did content updates (EQ did "adventure packs", for example) which were either paid DLC or free to all. The expansions themselves were huge though, with much, much more content then the original game.

 

Current gen like AOC, TSW, STO, EQ2(FTP), D&DO, Rifts, ect, all work on the episodic content system, pumping out new zones, raids, and classes every few months or less. Most have monthly releases which amount to about 6 to 10 hours of new content, while other are a little behind that mark but make it up in size of the release.

 

Where is SW:TOR in this? Without question the worst post launch support of any game every, UNLESS they are going with the 2nd gen model and we see a "more then double the game content" release late next year. This is unlikely though as the reason this model stopped being used is people didn't give MMOs that much time any more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

EQ was also a harder level grind with hell levels and gear was very much at the mercy of random number generator where you could be camping for multiple gaming sessions killing trash and hoping to spawn a named "boss" mob which then might drop what you were looking for. There was also a big step up in difficulty where you needed to farm the gear in order to take on harder content.

 

EQ content was longer lived cause it was evil to progress, not sure this would be successful now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

EQ was also a harder level grind with hell levels and gear was very much at the mercy of random number generator where you could be camping for multiple gaming sessions killing trash and hoping to spawn a named "boss" mob which then might drop what you were looking for. There was also a big step up in difficulty where you needed to farm the gear in order to take on harder content.

 

EQ content was longer lived cause it was evil to progress, not sure this would be successful now.

 

It wouldn't be successful now. But I actually miss that and reminisce sometimes of the "good ol' days" of camping Raster, Jboots in OOT, Pre-nerf Circlet of Shadows, etc etc etc.

 

The main thing I miss about EQ was the CONTENT WAS HARD. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It was very difficult and things would be worked on consistently for months at a time to try and down it before the next expansion. There was always something to do, and leveling took weeks, not a mere 3-4 days like now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It wouldn't be successful now. But I actually miss that and reminisce sometimes of the "good ol' days" of camping Raster, Jboots in OOT, Pre-nerf Circlet of Shadows, etc etc etc.

 

The main thing I miss about EQ was the CONTENT WAS HARD. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. It was very difficult and things would be worked on consistently for months at a time to try and down it before the next expansion. There was always something to do, and leveling took weeks, not a mere 3-4 days like now.

 

I also sorta miss the EQ days - you definitely always had something to do since everything took so long. But that was then, this is now. I agree that slow leveling would not be successful now. In May/June 2010 (?), Vanguard had a mini-expansion with new levels 50 to 55, and initially leveling over these five levels was painfully, painfully slow as a return to the good ol days of EQ. Vanguard was already down to four servers at the time, and this caused another player exodus just when things seem to be on the upswing (you really had to grind for XP from 50 to 55, and had a very limited set of places to do so). They eventually sped up leveling again about a month after the initial release of the 55 cap, but it was too late, folks just did not want to pay that pain and many left. In the late Fall after the mini-expansion, they had to consolidate servers again.

 

I think that in today's MMO market it is not too hard to please players as long as you have the capability to bring out new content on a regular basis (2-3 months) that addresses the various segments of your player base (high-end raiders, casual raiders, and non-raiders). So far, SWTOR has not been able to do that. Somehow, when the engine for a modern MMO is designed, it needs to be designed with the capability of bringing out new content quickly. If that can't be done, then the MMO will struggle, as SWTOR currently is struggling. I keep hoping that things will change in terms of the frequency of SWTOR content releases as they get into the swing of it, but it does not seem to be happening (the opposite seems to be happening).

 

Still hoping for news of 1.4 Operations content/release schedule at any time......ucandoit Bioware!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also sorta miss the EQ days - you definitely always had something to do since everything took so long. But that was then, this is now. I agree that slow leveling would not be successful now. In May/June 2010 (?), Vanguard had a mini-expansion with new levels 50 to 55, and initially leveling over these five levels was painfully, painfully slow as a return to the good ol days of EQ. Vanguard was already down to four servers at the time, and this caused another player exodus just when things seem to be on the upswing (you really had to grind for XP from 50 to 55, and had a very limited set of places to do so). They eventually sped up leveling again about a month after the initial release of the 55 cap, but it was too late, folks just did not want to pay that pain and many left. In the late Fall after the mini-expansion, they had to consolidate servers again.

 

I think that in today's MMO market it is not too hard to please players as long as you have the capability to bring out new content on a regular basis (2-3 months) that addresses the various segments of your player base (high-end raiders, casual raiders, and non-raiders). So far, SWTOR has not been able to do that. Somehow, when the engine for a modern MMO is designed, it needs to be designed with the capability of bringing out new content quickly. If that can't be done, then the MMO will struggle, as SWTOR currently is struggling. I keep hoping that things will change in terms of the frequency of SWTOR content releases as they get into the swing of it, but it does not seem to be happening (the opposite seems to be happening).

 

Still hoping for news of 1.4 Operations content/release schedule at any time......ucandoit Bioware!!!

 

I agree and disagree. Vanguards problem wasn't slow leveling, it was boring leveling and the fact that there wasn't content to support it. Leveling can be slow as long as the ride is a good time. Look at COD for example; a LOT of people level grind that game, with a single level taking about 2 weeks to get (I'm talking an elite level, obviously). No one says "OMG leveling is too slow" because it's just part of the ride.

 

FF12, LOTRO, PSO, and PSO2 all do this as well; PAINFULLY slow leveling by even the EQ standard, but with enough balance in additive game play and prevalent content to sink there teeth into enough people. Add to that any game made outside NA and the EQ "style" of leveling is still very much part of the MMO world today and is successful in a lot of MMOs.

 

EQ wouldn't be successful today because it was punishing and had no quality of life additions until very late. People will still grind hour open hours to get a level, but they sure as hell will not spend 2 hours to go from one zone to another.

 

How's the fit with SW:TOR? Back to content. SW:TOR could raise the level cap to 55 (they will be soon) but right now that would do nothing to keep people in the game, even if it was a grind. Leveling in SW:TOR was fun because of story, not fun because of game play, loot hunt, or anything else. Had it took longer to get from 1 to 50 ... what would people have done? You do your quests, you do the side quests, then ... what? How do you make up the "grind xp"?

 

There is, overall, very little to do in SW:TOR from day one. The strength of the story makes that ok from 1 to 50, but that wouldn't be the case if you needed to work to level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is sad to say but it is looking like Nightmare Mode EC is all we will get in 1.4. I kind of expected this when they said that the new OP would be on Makeb(sp). The devs also said they would alternate the release for story mode / hard mode and nightmare.

 

Beside, it really does not make sense to introduce the new planet in bits and pieces. So I predict we will see the new op when we say the level cap raised. That is not anytime soon ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have 5 level 50s now 2 of which are geared out. I dont want to level more toons :mad: give us more content faster. Id really like to know why it takes them 3-4 months to put out content patches. I mean even little things like events help. at least give us new stuff to do or new places to explore. the game is going stale very very quickly now :(

 

You've burned out on the game. Simple as that. Take a month off, man.

(Do you ask WoW why it takes 2 years to release a new Raid? SW:TOR has pushed 3 Ops in 7 months...plus 15 Flashpoints, and the first major level expansion will be out this year...)

 

I know, that doesn't make it feel any better. But look around--there's tons of glitchy, buggy things, tons of long-standing feature requests...You say you'd really like to know why it takes 3-4 months, but I don't think you really want that answer. Seems silly to say this, but your pace of gaming is too fast for a game this size.

Edited by Journeyer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

EQ was also a harder level grind with hell levels and gear was very much at the mercy of random number generator where you could be camping for multiple gaming sessions killing trash and hoping to spawn a named "boss" mob which then might drop what you were looking for. There was also a big step up in difficulty where you needed to farm the gear in order to take on harder content.

 

EQ content was longer lived cause it was evil to progress, not sure this would be successful now.

 

Lol took me (warrior) and a friend (sk) over a month to get one ac aug from sparkbolt in the exp SoF. Let him loot it first and never got my aug to drop. This was the normal for high end ac augs. They would be on the toughest sob's in the game and take forever to drop. Do not miss it but bio has a weird way of gearing. Later expansions we had tiers of gear we must get to receive the next set as not to skip to the last like you are able to do in swtor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is sad to say but it is looking like Nightmare Mode EC is all we will get in 1.4. I kind of expected this when they said that the new OP would be on Makeb(sp). The devs also said they would alternate the release for story mode / hard mode and nightmare.

 

Beside, it really does not make sense to introduce the new planet in bits and pieces. So I predict we will see the new op when we say the level cap raised. That is not anytime soon ...

 

Based on what BW have said about how hard they've been working on Terror from Beyond, I'm kind of expecting Story and HM Terror to be released alongside Nightmare EC. With either hard or story Terror dropping the same gear as Nightmare EC. However it would make sense to release Nightmare EC first regardless of which gear drops in Terror for the sole reason that its gonna be harder (most likely).

 

Either that, or its possible with the level cap.increase they'll be delaying Nightmare EC and making all the prev raid Nightmare difficulties tuned for lvl 55, but I think that's just wishful thinking on my part.

 

I guess we just have to be ridiculously patient. I have no interest in GW2 and MoP might be okay, but if it follows the state of Cata, I can't see myself going back to WoW. tried it for a week and it just felt a bit dull, nice to try new content but it really is old now, and they've made the direction they're taking the game pretty clear.

 

My guess is still a September launch for 1.4, which ofcourse means it should be on the PTS during the second half of April. However with all the restructuring, I bet its been pushed further off schedule. Still despite what BW say, the gap between major patches has roughly been every quarter. So 1.4 might not come till like Oct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Terror's gear progression would be:

Story Mode Asation = Campaign token drops

Hard Mode Asation = New tier token drops

Nightmare Mode Denova = New tier token drops

 

That's pretty much what Denova was like when it was released. Story Mode matched Tier 1, while Hard Mode was the true new tier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Terror's gear progression would be:

Story Mode Asation = Campaign token drops

Hard Mode Asation = New tier token drops

Nightmare Mode Denova = New tier token drops

 

That's pretty much what Denova was like when it was released. Story Mode matched Tier 1, while Hard Mode was the true new tier.

 

Bad idea. We don't need more candy-like gear drops. That is the problem that several of us touched on, but many glaze over it. It is entirely way too easy to gear in this game with the amount of blackhole comms we can get.

 

TfB is a new tier entirely, and the Nightmare gear for EC is already in the game. 63 lvl mods. Whopppdedooooo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I agree the game is desperate for some new raiding content. I am a member of a raiding guild which has cleared all content on both eight and sixteen man. At present the majority of our members need only one or two drops, in order to maximise there current gear to its full potential.

 

What you also have to take into account is that most of us, were playing on dying servers before the mergers took place, which also slowed our progress. Guilds this didn’t affect must have been geared ages ago, and have either un-subbed or are in the process of gearing their alts.

 

Patch 1.3 brought easier alternatives for players to obtain Black Hole commendation’s, thus allowing for faster progress to be made. Bioware would have to be very naïve to introduce this….. Should new content not be on the horizon. Personally I am not a massive fan of these shortcuts, should there not be enough content, This would have been better introduced once the new operation had landed.

 

With the three tier structure of raiding story mode, hard mode and nightmare, Bioware have to be very careful not to make the content to accessible to players straight away. Every player needs something to aim for whether they are a casual or hardcore player, by doing this it grants a sense of achievement and keep players returning for more. If not players will burn through the content and leave Bioware in a constant struggle of trying to pump out content, in order to keep the retention of player subscriptions.

 

I think vast improvements have been made to raiding since the Tier One content, and Bioware have shown they are learning quickly. Denova has some interesting and sometimes challenging trash pulls, and a vast improvement on difficulty for boss encounters. Kudos to Bioware keep challenging us and ramping up the difficulty.

 

For future content id like to see more of the same on the trash between fights, with clever use of crowd control a must for clearing. There is nothing worse then mindless trash to kill between boss fights, with no skill or coordination required. Maybe instead of trash it would be nice to have a gauntlet style obstacle course, for players to make there way through. Imagine being fired upon by shielded turrets whilst trying to negotiate you way through timed hazards and jumping sections, in order to reach the switches….. required to power down the turret shields, thus making them vulnerable.

 

 

As far as boss fights go more of the same please, I have really enjoyed all encounters so far….. and I think its nice to have a puzzle one, it has become a signature of SWTOR operations. It would be nice if we could have more then four bosses in future operations and keep making content harder…….challenge us and we will return for more…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question for all MMO veterans (I.E more than just one mmo).

 

Is the speed at which they release new content: World Events, Flashpoints and Operations

normal?

 

Or is this slower than most?

 

For example:

 

Did/do EQ and EQ2 release Dungeons and Raids more often than SWTOR?

 

Since about 1.3, TOR has had one hour of relevant raid content for my guild per week (EC HM).

 

When my guild quit EQ2 in mid-April this year, we had about 10 hours of relevant content to raid per week. And obviously EQ2 is pretty old nowadays...for years, it had 20+ hours of relevant raid content per week (few guilds finished the content before new stuff was released).

Edited by Lymain
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most people don't think about it, but most guilds haven't even cleared HM EC. If you want more content, just be PATIENT. Its not like their is some lame game studio is making SWTOR. Bioware Austin has had several members laid off, which means that is less people to work on the game. Plus, with 1.4 dropping and maybe 1.5 as well this year, there will be a lot of content, to keep players busy.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't even want nightmare denova anymore. I'm sick of Denova. We cleared it on 16 hard in less than a month (more like 3 weeks, except he got broken right as we got to him) I've been farming it for 3 months. Nightmare isn't going to change the fact that I'm tired of going in there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't even want nightmare denova anymore. I'm sick of Denova. We cleared it on 16 hard in less than a month (more like 3 weeks, except he got broken right as we got to him) I've been farming it for 3 months. Nightmare isn't going to change the fact that I'm tired of going in there.

 

I know right?

 

There's 3 ops in game right now. I've done all them on every difficulty with 8 man and 16 man and I NEED a 4th op.

 

It reminds me of how happy I was when the Denova WZ came out - finally I can PvP again without getting bored! And then the fresh new paint wore off as the months passed.

 

Story Terror from Beyond would be nice. Why? Because it's not about the gear, it's about the extremely limited PvE endgame. I feel like I'm back in DA2 here with the same dungeon map every single time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most people don't think about it, but most guilds haven't even cleared HM EC. If you want more content, just be PATIENT. Its not like their is some lame game studio is making SWTOR. Bioware Austin has had several members laid off, which means that is less people to work on the game. Plus, with 1.4 dropping and maybe 1.5 as well this year, there will be a lot of content, to keep players busy.

 

I don't think it's fair to tell people to be patient at all. People come to modern MMOs now with an expectation of content delivery (and I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation). Just because Bioware has had to make redundancies (and I genuinely feel for the staff involved in that), doesn't mean the customer base should suffer so much. We pay a part of our subscription price for them to develop new content, no new content = overpriced subscriptions.

 

If it was a F2P game, fair enough - tell people to be patient because your not paying for development constantly, but in a sub-game it's simply unacceptable.

 

I do understand that guilds haven't cleared EC Hard Mode yet, the point is though that the majority of guilds will have cleared EC Story Mode - the reality is hard mode really isn't that different to story mode once your in other than tactics changes. It's not a new boss encounter or new sets of trash - it's the same stuff a little more difficult and the feeling of it being 'new' wears off after about the third raid.

 

On the Everquest points - it's my favourite MMO of all time. I loved taking months to level to max, then having to build AA points after that. PoP was a fun expansion with its progression structure (I think more games should take this on), where you have to kill one tier of bosses to get access to the next tier.

 

Unfortunately a game like Everquest wouldn't be 'successful' in the current market - back then MMOs were for a minority audience in comparison to now where MMOs have become common-place in a good proportion of people growing up. I would love to see a game come out with that style of levelling and progression and i'd play it, unfortunately not many would stay in it now. Would we all really play with the lag we used to get in PoK and The Bazaar ? :) Or accept mid-raid breaks to allow peoples 56K connections to reset at a convenient time rather than the 2 hour forced reset ? ^^ Even when the servers were down, everyone was on EQChat until they were back up (It really was a different era of gaming :))

 

There's a few other reasons that MMOs struggle now compared to EQ and I think one reason is that there's just so much choice in MMOs to play now, especially with how many have gone F2P.

 

When I played everquest, there wasn't really another MMO to play - quit and you quit MMOs. Now if your playing an MMO, there's a constant comparison to other MMOs. If you quit one MMO, you can pick up a different one or go back to one you've played before and with the split of players amongst them, there's always someone in another game you'll be relatively familiar with or gamed with before.

 

Regards,

Thermal

Elite Gaming

http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So we have now heard that we can expect new content coming in August, and we have heard that the new Operation Terror From Beyond will be "coming soon." Will Terror From Beyond be part of the content releasing in August? Will Nightmare EC be coming out instead, or at the same time? When can we expect to get on the PTS to start testing one or both of these? Hopefully it will be with the next week or so if there is going to be sufficient time to test and tune before a late August release.

 

If not, we're still waiting for more clarity on what "coming soon" means while GW2 and Mists of Pandaria launch dates are quickly approaching.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So we have now heard that we can expect new content coming in August, and we have heard that the new Operation Terror From Beyond will be "coming soon." Will Terror From Beyond be part of the content releasing in August? Will Nightmare EC be coming out instead, or at the same time? When can we expect to get on the PTS to start testing one or both of these? Hopefully it will be with the next week or so if there is going to be sufficient time to test and tune before a late August release.

 

If not, we're still waiting for more clarity on what "coming soon" means while GW2 and Mists of Pandaria launch dates are quickly approaching.

 

Denova had what, a 3 weeks PTS or 4 total before release? So PTS needs to be released this Thursday to match those same timelines. From a personal standpoint only (not the guild's) I don't have much faith in BW at this point. Their definition of new content could be a whole whopping 1 flashpoint and 5 new daily quests.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

writing operations is harder then designing them.

 

you need a good story going on with it, if you got any good ideas for them, suggest it on forums.

 

i agree entirely, we need more. 3 isnt enough right now. a 4th is coming, but then we will wait for a 5th...then a 6th...etc.

will we ever be satisfied?

 

PS- i am a little sick of the "Dread master" theme all 3 (and Terror from beyond) is having.. i want something new.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So we have now heard that we can expect new content coming in August, and we have heard that the new Operation Terror From Beyond will be "coming soon." Will Terror From Beyond be part of the content releasing in August? Will Nightmare EC be coming out instead, or at the same time? When can we expect to get on the PTS to start testing one or both of these? Hopefully it will be with the next week or so if there is going to be sufficient time to test and tune before a late August release.

 

If not, we're still waiting for more clarity on what "coming soon" means while GW2 and Mists of Pandaria launch dates are quickly approaching.

 

My opinion is that they'll release Nightmare mode for EC as well as the revamped Nightmare Modes that they said they were doing for EV and KP as a package deal for the August content. Then 1.4 will be the first F2P patch with Terror from Beyond because it is advertised under the F2P page.

 

My two cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess well have to wait and see what said New content is. Anything raid related is good, I'd be over the moon with revamped Nightmare mode for all 3 ops as it'd be something new to sink our teeth into even if its 90% still the same ops.

 

Whenever the new stuff hits PTS will be the only real indicator of roughly when well get it though. But as you said for it to be in August it must be on PTS within like 2 weeks. Somehow I suspect that may not be the case though. Surely if New ops are to be tested new copies of our live chars with up to date gear will be needed, which they should inform us how to do so ahead of time.

 

If it wernt for your suggestion about the content advertised with f2p being Terror plus HK and new dailies, I might have guessed the new content for August to be HK and new dailies :p

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After reading that interview with the new lead it seems like the "content" this month will be a world event, whether or not this means we'll get Nightmare EC or Terror remains to be seen but at the moment its not looking good, especially seeing at stuff like this usually needs extensive PTS testing.

 

Link to interview: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/feature/6609/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Free-to-Play-This-Fall.html

Edited by The-Vortex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason we haven't gotten any new ops and flashpoints is because BW has been busy spending all your sub money on adding cash shops to the game. I doubt the code for the cartel coins was already added at release.

 

This may well be the case by the looks of things..... :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...