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PvP gear : No thx!


Poje

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I argued to bring back pvp gear shortly after they removed it. I'm still in favor of it. Here's why.

 

We have an extremely long pvp gear grind right now. Do you think that is a good thing? I do not. I would love to see a return of cheap gear (for pvp). Do you know why we can't have that? It's largely because there is no pvp gear anymore - it's the same gear as for pve. PvE needs a gear progression, pvp really does not.

 

Optimal stat allocations for PvE and PvP are not the same. Do you know how much of a pain it is, with the current grindy system, to optimize for both activities? Well, if you are against bringing back cheap PvP gear, then you obviously do not know. You probably just go with one set and the same stat allocations for both. You flat out do not get it, much like the BW devs.

 

Pretty sure you are the one who doesn't get it...

 

Nobody gives a flying weasel about stats, bro. PVP gear was useless and we do not need it. If you want PVE stats you can easily flip some augments and enhancements and there you have your PVE stats.

 

Cheap PVP gear ? Where did you get that from.... With one set of gear for both we have more people doing PVP than ever before and that's exactly the point.

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I saw more undergeared people in PvP back when we had expertise. Players with PvE gear would have horrible stats.

 

Yes, because the pvp gearing was based on expertise, and a lot pve players didn't understand how it works. That's exactly why some of us don't want it back.

 

I think bolster works well the way it is now. I like gear progression in PvP. Would get boring if we didn't have gear to work towards.

 

Pvp should be about skill vs skill. I don't need or want gear progression in pvp. I've already got BiS gear on several alts. The problem is that I can't choose my team, the whole team, and usually end up having half of the team being unaugmented and undergeared. Let me choose the whole team I want to play with, or fix bolster and I'm happy. In fact, I might actually finish my weekly in less than 3 months, which is how long it takes for me now, because pvp was pretty much ruined in 5.0.

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It's perfect like it is right now!

 

Why am i talking about this?

 

Well it was brought up in the SWTOR Central stream that you were thinking about bringing it back. (Musco & Keith)

 

This was my answer :

 

Basicly Expertise is artificial and stupid. Gear is gear, that's it.

 

It was logical to remove it, like it was logical to make all planets usefull by having your lvl ajusted automaticly.

 

You guys made good changes to the game in the last few years, continue to think about the futur, not the past.

 

 

 

Poje

 

 

I completely agree with you, and thank you so much for posting this. Can you also make a post in general chat? Here on the forums? This one here will not be seen fast by the majority of the players, most people check the general channel and do not bother to check the others. It is also that because of this, and that most people have not seen swtor centrals interview, that almost nobody knows of this yet. We need to make this more aware to see what people want this or not. I was thinking it is best for bioware also not to make PVP gear again, because just like they said in the interview it takes them a lot of time & headache to make this, and it is better for bioware if this is the case to spend that time on something else. It is imo indeed not logic to make us grind for 2 different clothing gear sets for content in this game like we had in the past. It is super cool it is now all 1 gear we need to aim for. That makes it also more fun whenever you want to do a world pvp event, that people do not need to switch gear, incase the PVP battle gets mixed a bit with focussing on PVE worldbosses for example nearby, and it is super frustrating that ones you are fully switched you are weaker then for the other side of the coin in this game. I think they want to bring pvp gear back, because they want us also to grind longer, people get the gear faster now then they wished, they always try what I see to slow us down. So yeah do not count really on it if the new pvp gear will make it easier for players to grind their pvp sets! Look at what they did to Conquest for example, or how galactic command turned out 1st time? That is their way of thinking, best is to say to them, no stop with this idea you got now, let us keep it the way it is.

Even if they make the new gear super easy, just like I said it will be a burden to have 2 sets of gear caring around all the time in the inventory... also if they really aim for hoping to let us play more warzones and thus promote WZ, then they can try to add new slots to all the clothing items in the game, with a new expertise slot item modification, that will prevent 2 sets of gear caring around, and also make PVP players ''feel a bit special'' for grinding towards something what is only WZ related, it will be then easier to code for bioware (because you do not need to design 2 sets of clothing pvp/pve with all kinds of tweaks, save thus more time), also in that way they can let pvp players grind a bit longer. Ah well but if you ask me, bioware please keep it the way it is! Or ask us before you go on with this in a poll or something when we log in, otherwise it will be the same as conquest more or less or galactic command I am afraid. And please keep on making awareness for this topic you guys. Tell your friends, make posts on the forums, so we can give a signal to bioware what we want.

Edited by -JE-BLAZAR-
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PvP gear : why not?

Just do it! I will find the way how to combo pve with pvp gear, and using booster i will make me stronger then others

 

Have you been around how it was before? It was a weird system imo, not nice to use at all. It is better to have 1 gear ingame then 2 seperate ones, and even bioware admits (with charles and musco) in the interview with swtor central it is to much of an headache(+time) to make it. If that is so, then it is better to keep it the way it is and focus more on expansions or bug fixes. And if they want to go on with this, then they need to make it more simpler for them to make this, and also avoid people having 2 sets of gear, they can for example add an extra slot to clothing gear for an PVP expertise item modification. Do you not agree?

Edited by -JE-BLAZAR-
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Have you been around how it was before? It was a weird system imo, not nice to use at all. It is better to have 1 gear ingame then 2 seperate ones, and even bioware admits (with charles and musco) in the interview with swtor central it is to much of an headache(+time) to make it. If that is so, then it is better to keep it the way it is and focus more on expansions or bug fixes. And if they want to go on with this, then they need to make it more simpler for them to make this, and also avoid people having 2 sets of gear, they can for example add an extra slot to clothing gear for an PVP expertise item modification. Do you not agree?

 

This.

 

I think some people are wearing nostalgia goggles with expertise. It sucked and was a bad system from the start. If you wanted to run both PVP and Ops you needed to have two entirely separate sets of gear because PVE gear did poorly in PVP and expertise gear, while passable in SM Ops, was not optimal for HM Ops. Switching between gear sets to run different types of content is unneeded drudgery. It also added an extra layer of complexity to gearing that confused a lot of players coming from PVE, resulting in a lot of people queuing for PVP in gear that was good for SM Ops, but bad for PVP.

 

While people can still queue for PVP in bad gear, it is a lot less common now that there is only one gearing track for all content in the game.

Edited by Aeneas_Falco
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Yes, because the pvp gearing was based on expertise, and a lot pve players didn't understand how it works. That's exactly why some of us don't want it back.

Yes. Now PvP is more accessible and that is good.

 

Pvp should be about skill vs skill. I don't need or want gear progression in pvp. I've already got BiS gear on several alts. The problem is that I can't choose my team, the whole team, and usually end up having half of the team being unaugmented and undergeared. Let me choose the whole team I want to play with, or fix bolster and I'm happy. In fact, I might actually finish my weekly in less than 3 months, which is how long it takes for me now, because pvp was pretty much ruined in 5.0.

I just returned to the game about a month ago since previous expansion and I pretty much have 2 fully geared characters already. We don't need it, but getting gear grants a sense of accomplishment. Bolster seems to work relatively well nowadays, but sure it could use some tweaks.

 

Have you been around how it was before? It was a weird system imo, not nice to use at all. It is better to have 1 gear ingame then 2 seperate ones, and even bioware admits (with charles and musco) in the interview with swtor central it is to much of an headache(+time) to make it. If that is so, then it is better to keep it the way it is and focus more on expansions or bug fixes. And if they want to go on with this, then they need to make it more simpler for them to make this, and also avoid people having 2 sets of gear, they can for example add an extra slot to clothing gear for an PVP expertise item modification. Do you not agree?

I agree.

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I actually have a solution that will make everyone happy.

 

Bring back PvP gear, BUT instead of expertise, just add a special functionality to each piece that would jack up its level while a user is in a wz/arena. So for example, a tier 1 pvp earpiece is an adept earpiece with a rating of 220. In a wz it would be bolstered up to 242, while anywhere outside of a wz it would remain a 220. An tier 2 type B mod will have a rating of 224 outside of PvP, but inside a wz would be bolstered up to 248. The tier 1 gear can be bought with command tokens, and the tier 2 gear will require the previous tier shells.

 

This way:

1. People in PvE gear can participate in warzones at no penalty.

2. People who PvP exclusively will be able to compete in PvP and use more alts-we are assuming that the grind will be shorter, since PvE progression is naturally longer.

3. People could even mix mods and not worry about pvp/pve since the boosting level is based on the current highest PvE level.

4. The "muh progression" people still have progression since they buy new tiers with shells.

5. You don't need 2 sets of gear if you dont want to, you can just use PvE gear if you have it.

6. No more "ratings averages" or w/e people do to try to break bolster.

7. BW gets to decide how fast/slow the PvP progression is, by setting the prices of the gear according to what they believe is best. Now PvP progression is not tied to PvE progression, which by default should be a lot longer due to the scaling of bosses.

8*. BW can even make some PvP/PvE set bonuses if they want (as long as they aren't a huge game changer).

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I actually have a solution that will make everyone happy.

 

Bring back PvP gear, BUT instead of expertise, just add a special functionality to each piece that would jack up its level while a user is in a wz/arena. So for example, a tier 1 pvp earpiece is an adept earpiece with a rating of 220. In a wz it would be bolstered up to 242, while anywhere outside of a wz it would remain a 220. An tier 2 type B mod will have a rating of 224 outside of PvP, but inside a wz would be bolstered up to 248. The tier 1 gear can be bought with command tokens, and the tier 2 gear will require the previous tier shells.

 

This way:

1. People in PvE gear can participate in warzones at no penalty.

2. People who PvP exclusively will be able to compete in PvP and use more alts-we are assuming that the grind will be shorter, since PvE progression is naturally longer.

3. People could even mix mods and not worry about pvp/pve since the boosting level is based on the current highest PvE level.

4. The "muh progression" people still have progression since they buy new tiers with shells.

5. You don't need 2 sets of gear if you dont want to, you can just use PvE gear if you have it.

6. No more "ratings averages" or w/e people do to try to break bolster.

7. BW gets to decide how fast/slow the PvP progression is, by setting the prices of the gear according to what they believe is best. Now PvP progression is not tied to PvE progression, which by default should be a lot longer due to the scaling of bosses.

8*. BW can even make some PvP/PvE set bonuses if they want (as long as they aren't a huge game changer).

 

I understand what you try to say, but I had to read it a few times to understand it completely. I do like your idea of thought, and in some way it is a good idea, but!!..... a big but... you forget that there are also people who like to do both PVP and PVE content. So let us say they grind first PVP gear, because they where on that moment more into Warzones, and a month later they had enough of it, and want to do some ops! Then the problem arises that they have bad gear for ops! So it is both for PVP and PVE benificial if there is just simply 1 gear in the game for playing content we like. Otherwise you get problems like we had in the past where I remembered making groups for operations, and then some of the more warzone players want to join ops and they find out their gear sucks... So no unfortunately this is not a good idea and is a lot of work to do. But I appreciate your idea! I can clearly see you wish well for helping both PVP/PVE players. If we then perhaps fix your idea by making a boost for PVP gear in operations, then it is actually weird because if you think then logically it all ends up with the same gear stats or 1 single gear both PVP/PVE end up with the same boosts and go to the same level. If you get what I mean. It all ends up to the same conclusion 1 gear for all content is best to do. And regarding bioware admits it is a lot of headache and time consuming to make, it is simply then better for them to cancel their project for making this, because that time can better used somewhere else (like a new warzone map). A last point I want to make, is that you forget that your idea also does not fix then the problem what arises with Open World PVP battles when there are 2 different gears in the game, if we fix that then in open world pvp with an boost that both endgame gears end up with 1 same stats, then we end up with the same conclusion that it is actually the same 1 gear! You know what I mean, I hope? It sucks this whole situation, because finally bioware fixed something with this 2 gear problem we had in the past, only the grinding for this 1 gear was to harsh in the beginning, the gearing in the game right now is now in a good spot, it can use some tweaking though. I think if they want to promote WZ's more, they should add more special rewards (mounts/decos/weapons/clothing) for doing that content and not by making us able to buy only gear.. I never liked this, I love warzones, but it feels always so stupid to grind every season/ major update a new warzone set. And i am not looking forward for grinding every major patch again 2times for the best gear sets in this game (PVE+PVP), + we must not forget we need to augment all too.

Edited by -JE-BLAZAR-
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I understand what you try to say, but I had to read it a few times to understand it completely. I do like your idea of thought, and in some way it is a good idea, but!!..... a big but... you forget that there are also people who like to do both PVP and PVE content. So let us say they grind first PVP gear, because they where on that moment more into Warzones, and a month later they had enough of it, and want to do some ops! Then the problem arises that they have bad gear for ops! So it is both for PVP and PVE benificial if there is just simply 1 gear in the game for playing content we like. Otherwise you get problems like we had in the past where I remembered making groups for operations, and then some of the more warzone players want to join ops and they find out their gear sucks... So no unfortunately this is not a good idea and is a lot of work to do. But I appreciate your idea! I can clearly see you wish well for helping both PVP/PVE players. If we then perhaps fix your idea by making a boost for PVP gear in operations, then it is actually weird because if you think then logically it all ends up with the same gear stats or 1 single gear both PVP/PVE end up with the same boosts and go to the same level. If you get what I mean. It all ends up to the same conclusion 1 gear for all content is best to do. And regarding bioware admits it is a lot of headache and time consuming to make, it is simply then better for them to cancel their project for making this, because that time can better used somewhere else (like a new warzone map). A last point I want to make, is that you forget that your idea also does not fix then the problem what arises with Open World PVP battles when there are 2 different gears in the game, if we fix that then in open world pvp with an boost that both endgame gears end up with 1 same stats, then we end up with the same conclusion that it is actually the same 1 gear! You know what I mean, I hope? It sucks this whole situation, because finally bioware fixed something with this 2 gear problem we had in the past, only the grinding for this 1 gear was to harsh in the beginning, the gearing in the game right now is now in a good spot, it can use some tweaking though. I think if they want to promote WZ's more, they should add more special rewards (mounts/decos/weapons/clothing) for doing that content and not by making us able to buy only gear.. I never liked this, I love warzones, but it feels always so stupid to grind every season/ major update a new warzone set. And i am not looking forward for grinding every major patch again 2times for the best gear sets in this game (PVE+PVP), + we must not forget we need to augment all too.

 

well

1. you already are bolstered in SM ops.

2. You don't NEED to have 2 sets of gear. You can just ignore the "PvP gear" and grind out PvE gear and use that ... exactly like today. You were not able to do this in the past because PvE gear in PvP would gimp you and make you a target. If you want to go in 230s and gimp yourself while you "progress" to 248s, that is your decision. But for those that do not want that this is a good alternative.

 

Either way, this is better than what we have now. Gearing takes too long. The difference between max gear and 230s is still significant. Returning players are discouraged from playing, new players are forced to be more disadvantaged than ever. And people are discouraged from playing alts, unless they want to waste months getting them geared up.

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And people are discouraged from playing alts, unless they want to waste months getting them geared up.

 

The worst thing about the new gearing system is this. ^

 

They made playing alts a total chore which sucks if you are someone like me that has always enjoyed playing multiple classes.

 

There is zero incentive to playing an alt unless you have endless time and patience and gearing them is important to you.

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well

1. you already are bolstered in SM ops.

2. You don't NEED to have 2 sets of gear. You can just ignore the "PvP gear" and grind out PvE gear and use that ... exactly like today. You were not able to do this in the past because PvE gear in PvP would gimp you and make you a target. If you want to go in 230s and gimp yourself while you "progress" to 248s, that is your decision. But for those that do not want that this is a good alternative.

 

Either way, this is better than what we have now. Gearing takes too long. The difference between max gear and 230s is still significant. Returning players are discouraged from playing, new players are forced to be more disadvantaged than ever. And people are discouraged from playing alts, unless they want to waste months getting them geared up.

 

I think you did not understood my message, what you say you want to use bolster to make up for the loss, what I say that is a great idea, but it leads to the same conclusion, it is then more or less the same gear, and bolster adds up the stats then, what is then the point if there is no difference between the 2 in the end? Because it is not, it is then in in its essence the same gear. It is better to sell then 2 different clothing sets, with same identical stats from 2 different vendors 1 aquired through PVP other through PVE, in that way any headache of calculating all the extra differences into bolster will then be avoided. There is no point in this, and trust me, if bioware introduces this, it will not be the same as we had in 4.0, that was heaven for PVP grinding (a bit to easy). They always aim for a long grind, look at what they did to conquest/galactic command when it was 1st introduced. Point of my previous post was, I get your idea, but it is to much of an headache what bioware even admits in last interview few days ago, and I bet they do not want to be bothered to bolster people in open world PVP to PVE numbers and vice versa. Best is to stick what we have now, and make the grind more easier or more rewarding for PVE/PVP not the other way around, because otherwise that is what we will get.

Edited by -JE-BLAZAR-
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I think you did not understood my message, what you say you want to use bolster to make up for the loss, what I say that is a great idea, but it leads to the same conclusion, it is then more or less the same gear, and bolster adds up the stats then, what is then the point if there is no difference between the 2 in the end? Because it is not, it is then in in its essence the same gear. It is better to sell then 2 different clothing sets, with same identical stats from 2 different vendors 1 aquired through PVP other through PVE, in that way any headache of calculating all the extra differences into bolster will then be avoided. There is no point in this, and trust me, if bioware introduces this, it will not be the same as we had in 4.0, that was heaven for PVP grinding (a bit to easy). They always aim for a long grind, look at what they did to conquest/galactic command when it was 1st introduced. Point of my previous post was, I get your idea, but it is to much of an headache what bioware even admits in last interview few days ago, and I bet they do not want to be bothered to bolster people in open world PVP to PVE numbers and vice versa. Best is to stick what we have now, and make the grind more easier or more rewarding for PVE/PVP not the other way around, because otherwise that is what we will get.

 

Could you please start using paragraphs? My eyes start bleeding whenever I try to read anything you post here.

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If they junk the RNG crate system and re-introduce the beloved comm gear vendor system I will take expertise back without a complaint.!

 

They did already return that system a year ago, and it's even improved with the ability to trade in gear you got from ops.

 

The problem is that the cost (time spent / piece of gear) when gearing only via pvp is much higher these days, even higher than it was in 2.x. Splitting gear again and adding a stat to buff those in PVP gear isn't the solution.

 

All we want is BiS gear for PVP and we want it ASAP. So why not simply give everyone the same stats based on their choice of mods/enhancements (i.e. an adept enhancement of any rating will always give the same amount of crit/power/end)

Edited by Mubrak
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I think you did not understood my message, what you say you want to use bolster to make up for the loss, what I say that is a great idea, but it leads to the same conclusion, it is then more or less the same gear, and bolster adds up the stats then, what is then the point if there is no difference between the 2 in the end? Because it is not, it is then in in its essence the same gear. It is better to sell then 2 different clothing sets, with same identical stats from 2 different vendors 1 aquired through PVP other through PVE, in that way any headache of calculating all the extra differences into bolster will then be avoided. There is no point in this, and trust me, if bioware introduces this, it will not be the same as we had in 4.0, that was heaven for PVP grinding (a bit to easy). They always aim for a long grind, look at what they did to conquest/galactic command when it was 1st introduced. Point of my previous post was, I get your idea, but it is to much of an headache what bioware even admits in last interview few days ago, and I bet they do not want to be bothered to bolster people in open world PVP to PVE numbers and vice versa. Best is to stick what we have now, and make the grind more easier or more rewarding for PVE/PVP not the other way around, because otherwise that is what we will get.

 

Bolster only exists in sm ops. It doesn't exist in hm and NiM (veteran and master). So if you want to do those-which should be the end goal of all PvEers, then you will have to go through progression.

 

The point is to keep the progression of PvP and PvE separate. PvE progression needs to be slow and gear is used as a barrier to entry for the higher level (NiM/M) ops. It is assumed that once everyone is geared up, you will have so much experience with the op through repetition that you will be able to progress to the next level and not be completely destroyed. This is why the bosses in ops scale.

 

PvP is not like that. There is no "gear" scaling. Either you have the gear or not. And for those that do not, they will have a disadvantage against those that do. Gearing in PvP should not take as long as it does in PvE because of that. If it is as long as it is in PvE, people will get frustrated and leave, or just raise 1 or 2 fotm/their favorite characters and ignore their other alts. Other players are not scaled to fit your gear level, unlike raid bosses. Now, I would personally like bolster to just bring everyone up to max level in PvP like it did in the beginning of 5.0, but there are a bunch of "muh progression" people that simply need that "carrot" (lets be honest, they just want to have an advantage against new players, though they'll never admit it).

 

Having things as they are right now is driving players away. And causing many returning players frustration making them go elsewhere. There was a well know twitch streamer who tried playing with the bolster, said "**** this" and never returned for example. There are lots of people from my old guilds say they would return just to do a few wzs every now and then but just can't be bothered to go through the entire grind. I personally have been grinding for months, but only have 1 character at 300 and one more at 270. Frankly, I am getting very bored playing the exact same characters over and over. I would like to go on my PT/sorc/commando/sentinel a few times for some variety. This current system is penalizing me for playing them or forcing me to grind for a long time to get them up to par.

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Pretty sure you are the one who doesn't get it...

 

Nobody gives a flying weasel about stats, bro. PVP gear was useless and we do not need it. If you want PVE stats you can easily flip some augments and enhancements and there you have your PVE stats.

 

Cheap PVP gear ? Where did you get that from.... With one set of gear for both we have more people doing PVP than ever before and that's exactly the point.

You know, I'm getting really tired of arguing about this....but ok, let's go another round.

 

Nobody cares about stats? What in the actual heck are you talking about? If you don't care about stats, give me all of yours so that I can nuke you from orbit. :D

 

Easily flip some augments and enhancements? You know darn well how expensive it is to pull 248 enhancements. Why do I have to spend so many credits to adjust my stats for pvp vs ops?

 

Yes, cheap pvp gear. Were you not around for the days of the cheap pvp gear? I dare you to try and prove to me that we have "more people doing pvp than ever before," because I flat out don't believe you. All I have is my own experiences: I ran far more warzones in 4.x than 5.x. I pretty much quit the game with this stupid gearing system.

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You know, I'm getting really tired of arguing about this....but ok, let's go another round.

 

Nobody cares about stats? What in the actual heck are you talking about? If you don't care about stats, give me all of yours so that I can nuke you from orbit. :D

 

Easily flip some augments and enhancements? You know darn well how expensive it is to pull 248 enhancements. Why do I have to spend so many credits to adjust my stats for pvp vs ops?

 

Yes, cheap pvp gear. Were you not around for the days of the cheap pvp gear? I dare you to try and prove to me that we have "more people doing pvp than ever before," because I flat out don't believe you. All I have is my own experiences: I ran far more warzones in 4.x than 5.x. I pretty much quit the game with this stupid gearing system.

 

Ha! WB, I just got back recently. Are on SF or SS now?

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Bolster only exists in sm ops. It doesn't exist in hm and NiM (veteran and master). So if you want to do those-which should be the end goal of all PvEers, then you will have to go through progression.

 

The point is to keep the progression of PvP and PvE separate. PvE progression needs to be slow and gear is used as a barrier to entry for the higher level (NiM/M) ops. It is assumed that once everyone is geared up, you will have so much experience with the op through repetition that you will be able to progress to the next level and not be completely destroyed. This is why the bosses in ops scale.

 

PvP is not like that. There is no "gear" scaling. Either you have the gear or not. And for those that do not, they will have a disadvantage against those that do. Gearing in PvP should not take as long as it does in PvE because of that. If it is as long as it is in PvE, people will get frustrated and leave, or just raise 1 or 2 fotm/their favorite characters and ignore their other alts. Other players are not scaled to fit your gear level, unlike raid bosses. Now, I would personally like bolster to just bring everyone up to max level in PvP like it did in the beginning of 5.0, but there are a bunch of "muh progression" people that simply need that "carrot" (lets be honest, they just want to have an advantage against new players, though they'll never admit it).

 

Having things as they are right now is driving players away. And causing many returning players frustration making them go elsewhere. There was a well know twitch streamer who tried playing with the bolster, said "**** this" and never returned for example. There are lots of people from my old guilds say they would return just to do a few wzs every now and then but just can't be bothered to go through the entire grind. I personally have been grinding for months, but only have 1 character at 300 and one more at 270. Frankly, I am getting very bored playing the exact same characters over and over. I would like to go on my PT/sorc/commando/sentinel a few times for some variety. This current system is penalizing me for playing them or forcing me to grind for a long time to get them up to par.

 

This is a very good point you make here! I completely agree what you said here.

 

But I do think when we return to PVP/PVE gear we get even more of an grind then before. If you wonder why I think this, then look at what they did to the latest grind systems they introduced like the new Conquest and Galactic Command when it got first introduced in 5.0, this is their trend unfortunately.

 

And anything new, would be likely the same or even a bit more of a grind. Bioware wants us to grind for as long as possible. That is the problem imo. I really hope it wont end up like that, but do prepare yourself for disappointment if it turns out like this. That is why I say it is better to keep it the way it is, or make it a bit more easy to grind with the system we have right now.

Like I said, anything new will be probably worse or will take another 1 year or so before it is at a point we like, and I am not looking forward to that again.

 

I hope you understand the worry of my point. And I think we can keep the good parts of the current system and also make it better or avoid bioware to spend to much time on making this software (like I said they notified us in stream a few days ago) + by pushing bioware more into making the grind less of a grindfest (like what you aim for, and I agree), I think this is a better approach for this. We can solve all the problems in 1 blow by keeping and tweaking the system we have right now. :) I worry also about players you mentioned, or old friends who did that.

 

And about ops.. hmm I do think we can easily fix that by for example that we can something extra special drop there (just an idea), like an extra gear token (like a 3rd relic), what is useless in warzones perhaps for example? In that way we can make ops a bit more grindy to balance things out? Like you mentioned. I mean the possibilities are endless, and we better can change with what we have right now then to get something we have no idea what it will be. I wish bioware was more open about their plans or asks us how it will look like.

Edited by -JE-BLAZAR-
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Expertise was an entry barrier to PvP. What I mean by that was that back when we had Expertise, you'd have to grind two sets of gear if you wanted to do both PvE and PvP. For that reason, a lot players who predominantly did PvE didn't want to spend the time grinding out another set of gear to PvP. Effectively, this meant that those who did PvP were generally better geared than they are now. This also meant that there were less players who were able or willing to queue up for WZs.

 

While you may not see the difference in WZ participation, keep in mind that the player base was larger back then than it is now, server merges later. With Expertise gone, more players are able to PvP without a gear restriction, but we also have more players in WZs who are undergeared.

 

I do miss the gear requirement for PvP, but I do not miss the time and effort it took to grind out two sets of gear. I think it was a good change, overall, and I feel it would be a step backwards to bring it back. Furthermore, with a smaller player base, it would also reduce player participation in PvP if players had to grind out two sets of gear again.

 

TL;DR : No thank you to Expertise, Bioware. If you want to enforce a gear standard for PvP, just require a minimum gear score using the existing system we already have in place. Easy day.

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Expertise was an entry barrier to PvP. What I mean by that was that back when we had Expertise, you'd have to grind two sets of gear if you wanted to do both PvE and PvP. For that reason, a lot players who predominantly did PvE didn't want to spend the time grinding out another set of gear to PvP. Effectively, this meant that those who did PvP were generally better geared than they are now. This also meant that there were less players who were able or willing to queue up for WZs.

 

While you may not see the difference in WZ participation, keep in mind that the player base was larger back then than it is now, server merges later. With Expertise gone, more players are able to PvP without a gear restriction, but we also have more players in WZs who are undergeared.

 

I do miss the gear requirement for PvP, but I do not miss the time and effort it took to grind out two sets of gear. I think it was a good change, overall, and I feel it would be a step backwards to bring it back. Furthermore, with a smaller player base, it would also reduce player participation in PvP if players had to grind out two sets of gear again.

 

TL;DR : No thank you to Expertise, Bioware. If you want to enforce a gear standard for PvP, just require a minimum gear score using the existing system we already have in place. Easy day.

 

Thanks for the very good post. I agree what you said. Please tell this to other people who are unaware about these points what you explained in this post of yours. More people should know of what you said.

Edited by -JE-BLAZAR-
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Thanks for the very good post. I agree what you said. Please tell this to other people who are unaware about these points what you explained in this post of yours. More people should know of what you said.

 

Seconded. As someone who has built 3 gear sets, even. There are far bigger problems that need fixing.

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I wish they would have kept expertise in the first place, and then balanced classes for pvp by assigning penalties/bonuses to underperforming classes. Sorc heals too strong? 15% expertise penalty. Mercs too weak? 10% expertise bonus.

 

Boom. No worrying overmuch about balancing PvP vs PvE, just adjust expertise bonus/penalty to even out the classes.

 

But as far as the gear, I'm not sad to see it go. It was a pain, and did put a big entry barrier to new players who didn't understand expertise (it's not like expertise was well-explained in game)

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Those warzones are really poppin' with this new gearing system now that players don't have that "barrier for entry" with that pvp gear. :rolleyes:

 

So is SS pretty dead now or what? Should I transfer to SF? Oh and hi Lhance.

Edited by teclado
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Those warzones are really poppin' with this new gearing system now that players don't have that "barrier for entry" with that pvp gear. :rolleyes:

 

So is SS pretty dead now or what? Should I transfer to SF? Oh and hi Lhance.

 

I find 70s pop constantly whenever I play on SF. I also found lowbies seem to pop more frequently too, although during less prime-time meant quite slow queues regardless. SS had slower ones though.

 

BUT! I am EST so that probably has something to do with it.

 

I will elaborate why I don't like SS, and this is purely anecdotal and doesn't mean others would have the same experience as me. :)

 

SS seems to have more immature constant trolls. In WZs, on Fleet, wherever. Just a lot of obnoxiousness, if not toxicity. SF seems more mature, seems better to me. Sure, there are asses on SF but I seem to find better fights in 70s on SF and less vocal crying by players on SF in the matches.

 

I'd say try 70s on SF just to compare.

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