My God, I'm sick of TESO Defenders and the Zenimaxthesda-drones...

I mean honestly, can't defend the game you enjoy (that isn't even released yet but you LOVE LOVE LOVE it lol) so you attack TOR?

Teso doesn't need defenders, its not swtor.

Teso doesn't need defenders, its not swtor.

that... depends on whom you ask and where you look. honestly I think those defenders are busy trying to defend the game on its own forums, before discontent spreads.

so far Zenimax made quite a few... interesting choices with their game AND customer service. and don't even get me started on their choice of forum layouts :/

I'm enjoying the game for now, but... I'm not even sure if I'll subscribe past 30 days you get with a purchase. it did renew my interest in other elder scroll games though, big time.

P.S. I'm both dreading and anticipating the cries of "add groupfinder Zenimax, all MMO's should have it!"

Teso doesn't need defenders, its not swtor.

look, I enjoy swtor because I have fun in it, and that's the point of playing A GAME, to have fun. While there are many problems with the game admittedly some of us still have fun in here and will continue to play it. If you enjoy Teso then play it, if you enjoy swtor then play it, I am sick and tired of the passive aggressive bullcrap posts everyday on the forums ( not talking about your post just the forums in general) that shout random nonsense, I get it, you can post your criticism as is your right as a paying customer, but when you say "fu biofail add this or this game will fail" without even saying how or why, not giving details about it, nothing, and then calling anyone who points this out a defender. Or whenever someone posts a faulty argument, a lot of times this happens, I point out some errors, then instead of counterpoints all of a sudden I am called a defender or apologist. Seriously can't anyone have a decent conversation where no one is called a troll for voicing their opinions or a defender for pointing an honest to god flaw in an argument?

Teso doesn't need defenders, its not swtor.

You should take a quick glance at their customer support forums

Frankly, I've given up on playing it because I keep crashing back to the login screen with an "unknown error" and there hasn't been much help from the devs so far.

Teso doesn't need defenders, its not swtor.

Define."Defender".

If you mean a person who blindly defends a game, do yourself a favor and look in a mirror.

If you mean a person who enjoys a game, well, there's nothing wrong with that. People are entitled to their opinions. Don't hate a person who plays a different game than you.

I'm personally going to continue to play SWTOR because it's fun and I'm a Star Wars fan, and the same am can be said for a lot of people here.

You should take a quick glance at their customer support forums

 

Frankly, I've given up on playing it because I keep crashing back to the login screen with an "unknown error" and there hasn't been much help from the devs so far.

I think its pretty much the reason why the exodus people suddenly stopped showing up. because if they could gloat? they would have.

I only crash every once in a while (usually when I have a map open) so I was able to play just fine for the most part. not everyone is that lucky.

its kinda sad, really. IMO game has fantastic potential. its not particularly innovative, but it is pretty and quests are actualy fun (at least to me they are) still haven't tried pvp, but I'm still fighting with my UI, to stop occurrences of "is this an enemy or just friendly player who was fighting the same enemy?" I'll get there... eventually. for now, I'm just super cautious becasue running into group of bad guys who squish my character is no fun.

incidentally, having to spend soul gems to resurrect other players? really Zenimax?

I think its pretty much the reason why the exodus people suddenly stopped showing up. because if they could gloat? they would have.

 

I only crash every once in a while (usually when I have a map open) so I was able to play just fine for the most part. not everyone is that lucky.

its kinda sad, really. IMO game has fantastic potential. its not particularly innovative, but it is pretty and quests are actualy fun (at least to me they are) still haven't tried pvp, but I'm still fighting with my UI, to stop occurrences of "is this an enemy or just friendly player who was fighting the same enemy?" I'll get there... eventually. for now, I'm just super cautious becasue running into group of bad guys who squish my character is no fun.

 

incidentally, having to spend soul gems to resurrect other players? really Zenimax?

The exodus people stopped showing up because theyre playing ESO. Im not an exodus person and I think anyone who claims any game will kill another game are people who know little to nothing about mmos but Im only still here because I wont leave what is left of my guild with no main tank. when my sub is up in a couple of weeks that's it until new raids come out, maybe.

And im not some blind defender, Im honest and If im criticizing a game it isn't because I hate it, its because I know it could be a lot better and the devs are holding the game back with bad ideas, if I hate a game I don't play it and I definitely don't post on its forums.

I will be just as hard on ESO as I am on swtor if they start screwing up. In fact I already am very critical of their stupid idea of making things like npc and player nameplates not an option to appeal to skyrim purists, but honestly the game is truly the most interesting, fun and beautiful mmo I have ever played and it just keeps getting better with every level. I really have to believe that these bad reviews have to be coming from people who haven't played the game past level 15 because theres no way that someone whos been in the level 35+ zones and dungeons have given this game a legit bad review.

but honestly the game is truly the most interesting, fun and beautiful mmo I have ever played and it just keeps getting better with every level. I really have to believe that these bad reviews have to be coming from people who haven't played the game past level 15 because theres no way that someone whos been in the level 35+ zones and dungeons have given this game a legit bad review.

this is how I felt and still feel about SWTOR btw. or in other words - to each their own (bear in mind, I'm not saying ESO isn't beautiful, becasue its pretty damn gorgeous, I'm saying that I get the same regular feeling of - wow this is awesome when I play TOR, even after 2 years) one person's wasted potential is another persons "this is EXACTLY what works for me, thank you"

Elder scrolls online is not a bad game. but I'm starting to see more and more why someone might dislike it. and I can't help but giggle at people who are ranting about how SWTOR is missing "essential" MMO features and then there's ESO. do NOT say addons. just don't. having to rely on addons for so many basics is huge part of why I'm growing more and more reluctant to resubscribe. its making me wonder exactly what is it that I'll be paying $15 a month for, when i could just fire up skyrim and not have to fight for spawn points, just cheat my way out of limited bag space and ever lacking gold, etc. so far my experiences with grouping have been... "I have no idea what just happened, but apparently I just did some group area because I killed a bunch of things and then achievement popped up O_O? "

I'm happy that you are loving it, every gamer should have that game (or games) that suit them, bring them tons of enjoyment. btu and this is important. game that doesn't suit you or even game that no longer suits you =/= bad or even "wasted potential"

P.S. I think I personally prefer having ability to just upgrade my transportation means once and for all instead of having to log in every 20 hours to feed my horse to get incremental improvements (and if you don't - you are not getting a better mount. ever). its an interesting mechanic, but it's already annoying me and I've been playing less than a week.

I don't argue that you like swtor as much as like eso, I like swtor too and wanted to like it a lot, then it got dumbed down so people who cant even figure out WOW can play it. You can argue against that all you want but ive played mmos since EQ1 and ive seen the dumbing down of the mmo genre and swtor is the dumbest its got so far and with the addition of "tactical flash points" and the omission of hm versions they have done the impossible and dumbed swtor down even more than it already was.

And you should probably get over the addons thing, swtor will never have addons because they just cant do it but every other significant mmo from now on will. I just don't understand why you think letting players customize their game is a bad thing, if anything it gives the devs more time to do other things and its also a way to test something with zero cost. A lot of people use an addon that lets you do something the game doesn't currently do? great the devs can add it and not worry about wasting their time adding something nobody will use or cares about.

and I can't help but giggle at people who are ranting about how SWTOR is missing "essential" MMO features and then there's ESO.

I really don't know why eso missing essential features makes you feel better about swtor missing essential features, atleast Eso has a reason even if its a bad one. They were trying to impress Skyrim players, what is swtors excuse?

I really don't know why eso missing essential features makes you feel better about swtor missing essential features, atleast Eso has a reason even if its a bad one. They were trying to impress Skyrim players, what is swtors excuse?

They were trying to impress KotOR players?

I mean, if one is a valid excuse, the other should be too.

They were trying to impress KotOR players?

 

I mean, if one is a valid excuse, the other should be too.

It would be perfectly valid, if swtor looked anything like kotor.

And you should probably get over the addons thing, swtor will never have addons because they just cant do it but every other significant mmo from now on will. I just don't understand why you think letting players customize their game is a bad thing, if anything it gives the devs more time to do other things and its also a way to test something with zero cost. A lot of people use an addon that lets you do something the game doesn't currently do? great the devs can add it and not worry about wasting their time adding something nobody will use or cares about.

I think his point was that a game shouldn't need add-ons for every major QoL improvement. Maps. a standard quest log, those sorts of things.

I think his point was that a game shouldn't need add-ons for every major QoL improvement. Maps. a standard quest log, those sorts of things.

And I agree with you 100%, I think it was a terrible decision on the devs part to not atleast give players the options to turn on elements of the game that make it more of an mmo, and I think most of the skyrim elements they are forcing on people do not translate well to a multiplayer game.

And I don't think that was what he was talking about, he is just against addons period.

I don't argue that you like swtor as much as like eso, I like swtor too and wanted to like it a lot, then it got dumbed down so people who cant even figure out WOW can play it. You can argue against that all you want but ive played mmos since EQ1 and ive seen the dumbing down of the mmo genre and swtor is the dumbest its got so far and with the addition of "tactical flash points" and the omission of hm versions they have done the impossible and dumbed swtor down even more than it already was.

 

And you should probably get over the addons thing, swtor will never have addons because they just cant do it but every other significant mmo from now on will. I just don't understand why you think letting players customize their game is a bad thing, if anything it gives the devs more time to do other things and its also a way to test something with zero cost. A lot of people use an addon that lets you do something the game doesn't currently do? great the devs can add it and not worry about wasting their time adding something nobody will use or cares about.

 

 

 

I really don't know why eso missing essential features makes you feel better about swtor missing essential features, atleast Eso has a reason even if its a bad one. They were trying to impress Skyrim players, what is swtors excuse?

I'm against addons in MMO. and I've explained over and over why.

1. they break. addon makers move on. MMO's get patched sometimes on a weekly basis. every patch is potentially going to break an addon. oh and they don't always play well together, becasue they are done by individuals all doing their own thing somewhere and not collaborating or checking in with each other.

2. relying on addons for quality of life improvements means developers put in on a backburner. long LONG backburning. which means you HAVE to use addons, becasue base UI is a mess that is not getting fixed any time soon.

there are very few "essential" MMO things that SWTOR is lacking. mostly ops frames stuff. and developers have been adding features. since, you know they cannot rely on addons.

so no, I will not "get over" this assumption that MMO, or any game in generally MUST be open to addons or its lacking. no. a good game doesn't require outside interference to be fun and playable. at best - its optional. and MMO's in particular should be able to stand on their own.

I don't know about that impressing SKYRIM players since its pretty much universally acknowledged that basic UI in Skyrim is terrible. they did want to do something different a world that feels more like a world and less like a game with all the notifications. its reasoning. as for SWTOR's excuse? there are no excuses either, just a decision to keep it in house and NOT open up Lua to potential exploits.

I think customizing a game is a good thing. I think relying on addons to do it is.. not so great.

as for tactical flashpoints... I don't like to do the whole wow clone, deal but I'm reasonably sure that they were added based on success of WoW's scenarios as a measure of allowing more people to run group content even if there are no perfect group comps in queue. is it dumb? no. is SWTOR dumbed down the most on the market? you must not have played WoW recently if you say that (yes I'm aware that hardmode raids are challenging - so are SWTOR's hardmode raids). and honestly? i don't even like that term. accessible to more people than just hardcore players with reflexes of a teenager - you know allowing more people to actualy enjoy their game and all.

but no, that's a bad thing! amirite? games must require tutorial the size of war and peace in order to be playable or something. >_> that or drop you into the world with no tutorial or guidance and let you figure it out and maker help you if your choices end up being suboptimal and you hit a content wall.

It would be perfectly valid, if swtor looked anything like kotor.

SWTOR is an enhanced KOTOR.

Teso doesn't need defenders, its not swtor.

It could use a couple tbh:

No guaranteed loot drops from FP bosses, gear mostly comes from chests which only one person can open and loot - but one can open them all. Guess what people are doing: troll ninja all of the chests. And when the group kicks them they *stay in the instance* just not in the group so they can proceed to carry on ninja looting. And as a cherry on top of the cake, the other 3 can't even get a replacement 4th member cos the instance is full.

That there MMO design is making "BioFail" look extremely competent.

It would be perfectly valid, if swtor looked anything like kotor.

It looks as much like KotOR as ESO looks like skyrim...

It looks as much like KotOR as ESO looks like skyrim...

You're talking to the hand and most responses will be confrontational unfortunately.

I know, but it's worth a try...

It could use a couple tbh:

 

No guaranteed loot drops from FP bosses, gear mostly comes from chests which only one person can open and loot - but one can open them all. Guess what people are doing: troll ninja all of the chests. And when the group kicks them they *stay in the instance* just not in the group so they can proceed to carry on ninja looting. And as a cherry on top of the cake, the other 3 can't even get a replacement 4th member cos the instance is full.

 

 

That there MMO design is making "BioFail" look extremely competent.

This is exactly what im talking about, ESO doesn't need to be defended from this because its either some dumbed down mmo cliché or its flat out false.

#1) Yeah sometimes on a boss you get no loot, many people like that and feel that the dumbed down mmos of today give everyone loot so easily and quickly people get bored and leave. Its a case of the Kids(players) not knowing what is good for them. and swtor has a huge problem with this but its not the only one.

#2) Gear does not mostly come in chests, ive gotten very little gear from chests maybe a green piece here and there and im sure someone somewhere has gotten a purple drop. The gear mainly comes from crafting, quests and boss drops. I agree the FFA chest system is not a good idea, but since theres nothing but garbage in them I don't really lose sleep over it.

And I don't think chests respawn in dungeons anymore, that was beta. Ive run every dungeon up to the level 35's multiple times and never seen anyone drop group to farm chests that drop mediocre gear sometimes and some change.

Lots of people completely locked out of the game because they can't add a payment on account and pre-paid cards are still unavailable and Zenimax's response has been basically, "sucks for you." Bugs and other issues will happen, but ignoring your player base who has payed $60-100 for the game and not letting it function until they setup payment, and making them unable to do so is ridiculous.

You mean ignoring your player base like letting people put the game on their credit or debit card even though it doesn't even have the $15 on it to clear the bank check? because that's what theyre doing.

This is exactly what im talking about, ESO doesn't need to be defended from this because its either some dumbed down mmo cliché or its flat out false.

 

#1) Yeah sometimes on a boss you get no loot, many people like that and feel that the dumbed down mmos of today give everyone loot so easily and quickly people get bored and leave. Its a case of the Kids(players) not knowing what is good for them. and swtor has a huge problem with this but its not the only one.

 

#2) Gear does not mostly come in chests, ive gotten very little gear from chests maybe a green piece here and there and im sure someone somewhere has gotten a purple drop. The gear mainly comes from crafting, quests and boss drops. I agree the FFA chest system is not a good idea, but since theres nothing but garbage in them I don't really lose sleep over it.

 

 

And I don't think chests respawn in dungeons anymore, that was beta. Ive run every dungeon up to the level 35's multiple times and never seen anyone drop group to farm chests that drop mediocre gear sometimes and some change.

Only commenting on point number 1. IT IS 2014!!! ENOUGH ALREADY!!!! It is not good game design to encourage trolling. I don't care if you loved the MMO's of old and their overtly hardcore mechanics. Those games dealt with a smaller more dedicated population since back then the genre only had a few hundred thousand. Times have changed and instead of telling the 'kiddies' to get off your lawn adapt to the changing times. No respectable developer these days will tell you what ESO has in regards to just that one video good design philosophy. It is terrible design and since it isn't a bug it is not something that can be claimed to be a mistake.

Outside of that I care nothing for this conversation so carry on! Keep in mind SWTOR is better than ESO in every way here simply because YOU ARE ON THE SWTOR FORUMS!!!! If you genuinely want to discuss the game go to a third party site.

Keep in mind SWTOR is better than ESO in every way here simply because YOU ARE ON THE SWTOR FORUMS!!!! If you genuinely want to discuss the game go to a third party site.

Your logic does not resemble our Earth logic...

Outside of that bout of insane troll logic, however, I do agree with your basic premise that the move away from such "overtly hardcore mechanics" has been an improvement in the MMO standard.