You have this problem because of the sheep mentality. People get a bad match and run to imp side. It has been happening on TRE for a while now. Luckily we are getting refugees from the german and french servers on pub now and things are slowly looking up. Very slowly. Being part of the problem is never the solution.

Based on population percentages only, the reps have a higher percentage of better players because lots of the bad rep sheep jump to imps so they can get carried.

This is the same thing I notice. That or if we do start to win the imps ragequit instantly.

Ragequit!!!! Wooo!

I've even played a few mids on my GS and the quality of imps isn't very good. Plus if they are losing or it's a tough match they rage quite.

My experience on the imp side mids agrees with this. I have an operative there in mids, and it's just SO frustrating. It's like "we" need, not a PvP 101, but a PvP 001. Hey, guess what, you can't stop someone taking a turret in NC when you are fighting them 100 YARDS FROM THE BUNKER. When you are down 150 points in an AHG calling out "run orbs" is not going to help you. If you run up "mid" in VS to fight them where they spawn, they will stealth around you and plant a bomb.

And yes, the rage quit or giving up is pathetic. One thing goes wrong, at all, and 2 people quit, and 3 more go and sit somewhere for defender medals, or just to wait the match out. Makes me cry.

Pub side 70's I've been having amazingly great games for the past week. Imp side mids though... ugh.

Hey. You all are right. Something I noticed...Not many rage quit. Imp side the first sign of difficulty you'll lose at least one but possibly 3. And I do mean the first sign.

There's no raging at each other either.

My experience on the imp side mids agrees with this. I have an operative there in mids, and it's just SO frustrating. It's like "we" need, not a PvP 101, but a PvP 001. Hey, guess what, you can't stop someone taking a turret in NC when you are fighting them 100 YARDS FROM THE BUNKER. When you are down 150 points in an AHG calling out "run orbs" is not going to help you. If you run up "mid" in VS to fight them where they spawn, they will stealth around you and plant a bomb.

 

And yes, the rage quit or giving up is pathetic. One thing goes wrong, at all, and 2 people quit, and 3 more go and sit somewhere for defender medals, or just to wait the match out. Makes me cry.

 

Pub side 70's I've been having amazingly great games for the past week. Imp side mids though... ugh.

I'm playing reps more now and pvp is much more enjoyable even if you lose. I think more people are getting sick of all the crap that goes with the current Imp population on Harbinger and want a change that is more fun by being friendly, by trying to win and not all the drama and abuse. Lots of imps have come across and it's good to see they leave that Imp mentality at the door. It's a good indication the Imp toxicity and attitude is what made them swap.

I typically politely thank the pubs for the free wins they provide.

Why not grow a pair and run on pub side, i know free wins are ok for chumps, but why not try a challenge?

The problem is, all half way decent pvpers left for imps for the easy wins. So all that's left on pub are the noobs and the premades. The interesting thing though, is when a quality pub premade runs they kill the imps in embarrassing fasion. This is because the imps have never had to play a real competitive war before, they basically suck (but specialize on beating up on noobs).

So since there are so many imp queues, and pubs mostly have just given up and stopped queueing, the imps are WAY ahead on gear, meaning unless something drastic changes, max level pvp is dead until 6.0.

What could be done? 1.) All war types mixed like odessen. or 2.) get rid of imp vs imp queues until pubs catch up on gear. Really they should get rid of same faction "simulations" anyhow. So now, anyone that reads #1 and thinks he will post that it doesn't make sense to have mixed faction queues ask your self why you are fighting against imps all day long with NO imp vs pub....is that more appropriate? Pubs do not exist in the story line you think is appropriate?

I doubt they will fix it, pvp is imp only until 6.0 is released.

Why not grow a pair and run on pub side, i know free wins are ok for chumps, but why not try a challenge?

 

The problem is, all half way decent pvpers left for imps for the easy wins. So all that's left on pub are the noobs and the premades. The interesting thing though, is when a quality pub premade runs they kill the imps in embarrassing fasion. This is because the imps have never had to play a real competitive war before, they basically suck (but specialize on beating up on noobs).

 

So since there are so many imp queues, and pubs mostly have just given up and stopped queueing, the imps are WAY ahead on gear, meaning unless something drastic changes, max level pvp is dead until 6.0.

 

What could be done? 1.) All war types mixed like odessen. or 2.) get rid of imp vs imp queues until pubs catch up on gear. Really they should get rid of same faction "simulations" anyhow. So now, anyone that reads #1 and thinks he will post that it doesn't make sense to have mixed faction queues ask your self why you are fighting against imps all day long with NO imp vs pub....is that more appropriate? Pubs do not exist in the story line you think is appropriate?

 

I doubt they will fix it, pvp is imp only until 6.0 is released.

Im still here! Along with a few people! We exist! I have a headache at the end of the day from the lack of knowledge our republic brothers and sisters have about their classes, but it is what it is. I spent far too much time on my tank, healer and dps to just jump ship to the Sheep Empire. I mean, I got higher dps with my actual tank than any dps on my team just a few minutes ago. I was baffled.....to say the least.

I'm playing reps more now and pvp is much more enjoyable even if you lose. I think more people are getting sick of all the crap that goes with the current Imp population on Harbinger and want a change that is more fun by being friendly, by trying to win and not all the drama and abuse. Lots of imps have come across and it's good to see they leave that Imp mentality at the door. It's a good indication the Imp toxicity and attitude is what made them swap.

I really hope you are right. I'd enjoy this game 1000x fold even if I can even win 1/2 of my pvp (pub mtaches). thats not asking for too much, is it?

Time after time, we start a match and I try to convey strategy in chat beforehand, "CC heals...go after sniper", "Get the mara, he's weak" and no one replies, sure enough I'll CC heals and someone attacks heals, or I wind up using target of target off a group member to see he's gone after a merc 1rst....and then wind up DPSing a merc while a sniper or Sorc's dropping AOE's on us, or a Mara's ripping one of us to shreds.

 

Granted, Bioware see's fit to let ridiculously imbalanced groups queue, like 1 DPS & 2 tanks against 3 DPS with a healer, but still, I see far too many pub side losses as a result of not at least reading chat & communicating.

I give you an A for effort, but Your Pug need to be beyond awesome against one or two Holy Trinitys . . . what you should do is to create those trinitys yourself and then get into the WZ.

I give you an A for effort, but Your Pug need to be beyond awesome against one or two Holy Trinitys . . . what you should do is to create those trinitys yourself and then get into the WZ.

I'll repeat what another said above, I play pub for the challenge, not gonna run to where it seems easiest.

One of the biggest reasons pubs lose is the lopsided queue's that isn't factored into the bolster, lack of heals, 4 v 3 ..etc, but we also have a disproportionate number of players that either don't know their class or strategy and don't read chat before the match, i.e. going after mercs when there are melee's that do more DPS but are more vulnerable, or DPSing guarded heals instead of CCing.

One thing you can do when pubbing, is invite people to group, and que together. Just look to get 3dps and a healer, or 2 dps, a healer, and a tank.

Even if the randoms you pick up aren't that great, it will help balance the make up of the matches, and make the experiences far more enjoyable.

It also tends to get you three other players that may listen a little easier to you. You can also talk over past games between matches, and figure out what could be done better.

I used to just scan the set bonuses of the people hanging out near the terminal, and whisper/invite randoms that probably had the roles I was looking to fill. That, or find people that were solo-queing in a match, and invite them.

The game is a lot more fun with a group, than trying to run it solo.

Warning, be prepared for another Icy Essay 🙃

Most imps need to be carried, even against rep noobs. They rarely get stiff competition because reps pop the least and have less good players on at the same time. As someone else said about most imps, they are experts at smashing noobs and making themselves feel good from free wins.

Most imp matches are against other imps being carried. Once again there are probably only a few good players per team. So still no stiff competition.

They only get stiff competition in a few ways -

Reps have a strong team because more good players are on at the same time

Reps have average players on, not people who need to usually be carried, but they run a premade 😉

Good imps form premades and keep going up against the same players who need to be carried

Imps tweak their queuing so they pop with other good imps and do not have to carry others.. the poor sheep on the other Imp team get ground into dust.

When ever the above happens, the majority of imps crumble, give up and all go sit at their only node or rage quit because competition is hard. Next thing they stop queueing and pops die fast.

The way most of us veteran players learned when the game launched was to grind like hell against those better than us. I came from WoW pvp and I thought I was pretty good till I started to play swtor pvp. It was a steep learning curve because we actually had some really excellent players at launch. They were nearly god like. But we didn't give up and we didn't rage quit. We would grind for hours against them and took our medicine. This ultimately made us better players because we had to use our brains, learn tactics, class skills, research other classes and understand strategy. Sheep didn't survive that pvp and people playing thug pvp got annihilated. We also had a good population, sure it was competive, but we had no toxicity for a long time, so better players would actually help people and guide us because we didn't give them attitude or let egos dictate our will to learn.

Personally I think the introduction of arena and the removal of ranked 8 man was the down fall of intelligent pvp in this game. It dumbed it down to only a few classes being viable in ranked, turned it into a brawl and created inflated egos. This death match attitude was then transplanted into objective pvp and destroyed people's ability to use their brains with tactics and strategy. Ultimately it made people into sheep because they just play follow the gank squad. That destroyed objective pvp, especially on the Imp side. Lots of objective pvpers left the game, but at least the reps still try to play objective pvp.

Mostly when you see reps winning matches over imps it's because they are playing objectives first and death match second. Even when the imps maybe better at solo combat, they lose because they focus only on that, are selfish players and don't understand team work or objectives. Then when you throw the average Imp sheep at objective reps, the reps smash them.

I say to any Imp players who aren't sheep, want a challenge, know how to use their brains, know what tactics and strategy mean, can play as a team, arent selfish, are willing to learn, willing to leave egos on the imps side and winning is the priority over the numbers scoreboard, then come play with some like minded objective Pvpers who enjoy objective Pvp and winning because it's fun to out smart your enemy 😉.. oh.. and herd sheep.

Ego's always say regs don't matter because it's no indication of skill. I agree, it's no indication of "arena death match" skill. But it can certainly be an indication of objective pvp player skill. Writing off reg 8 man constantly as not meaning anything is just wrong and detrimental to the game. It actually breeds sheep who have bad attitudes, don't know how to toughen the F up if they have competition and ultimately makes more objective pvpers leave the game. This reduces the population and you are left with sheep to farm, no players to replenish Ranked and all hope of ever getting any competition is gone for good.

I my opinion if we still had some form of ranked objective pvp, there would be 3 types of players in this game. "Real expert" objective players, "Real" arena experts and "Real" crossover players who would probably be the highest skilled players in the game. That breeds better players over time because they'll know regs do matter if they ever want to get to play any form of ranked in the game. It would also give objective players a real competitive outlet for their preferred pvp instead of being perpetually stuck grinding sheep in regs.

As it stands at the moment, Ranked arena probably matters the least in this game because of the toxicity, lack of Bio support and no replenishment of players. Real ranked players are a dying breed, most have left the game or are sick of the jerks and all we have left are Ego's and toxic players with half the skill of what should be required for ranked,

I'll finished this by saying something that most "thinking" pvpers already know. Really good players can get massive scores on the numbers board while still playing objectives properly 😉. Good players can do both... others are unfortunately sub par pvpers or just not that smart.

One thing you can do when pubbing, is invite people to group, and que together. Just look to get 3dps and a healer, or 2 dps, a healer, and a tank.

 

Even if the randoms you pick up aren't that great, it will help balance the make up of the matches, and make the experiences far more enjoyable.

 

It also tends to get you three other players that may listen a little easier to you. You can also talk over past games between matches, and figure out what could be done better.

 

I used to just scan the set bonuses of the people hanging out near the terminal, and whisper/invite randoms that probably had the roles I was looking to fill. That, or find people that were solo-queing in a match, and invite them.

 

The game is a lot more fun with a group, than trying to run it solo.

Its really rare anyway that a whole 8 man team is all top players. Not all premades are top pvpers either, a lot of them are guildies having some fun in WZ together, even if they are not terribly skilled for it. They won't get better if they never go in WZ.

Point is, in average a WZ team is strong if they have 2-3 top tier players, as they really impact any battlefield they are on, especially top tier healer. You just give them one somewhat decent tank that peels, and they can change a battle alone.

So any premade with 4 skilled players in it heavily stack the odds in your favor, especially if you happen to have another skilled player join in the 4 other people.

A lot of pubs on JC have understood this, and some not bad at all have been queuing and winning games for the "freedom side!".

But if they run into your average imp top tier premade, they are toast. And when they are around those tend to form as well.

Its really rare anyway that a whole 8 man team is all top players. Not all premades are top pvpers either, a lot of them are guildies having some fun in WZ together, even if they are not terribly skilled for it. They won't get better if they never go in WZ.

 

Point is, in average a WZ team is strong if they have 2-3 top tier players, as they really impact any battlefield they are on, especially top tier healer. You just give them one somewhat decent tank that peels, and they can change a battle alone.

 

So any premade with 4 skilled players in it heavily stack the odds in your favor, especially if you happen to have another skilled player join in the 4 other people.

 

A lot of pubs on JC have understood this, and some not bad at all have been queuing and winning games for the "freedom side!".

 

But if they run into your average imp top tier premade, they are toast. And when they are around those tend to form as well.

Pretty good assement...

I will add, even though the top tier Imp premades might be dominating at the moment against rep premades, there is a silver lining... by playing those better players it will help improve their own skills... it's a tried and tested method.. grinding against better players can improve your own abilities.. when you have no completion, you get lazy and your skills get rusty or your skill lvl plateaus.

This is actually going to favour the pub premades as they grind away.. the imps plateau or get rusty and the reps skills improve... ideally sometime down the track you end up with skill parity and then both sides can grind each other which makes them all increase in skill.

I even got abused for putting the "wrong" mark on a healer, lol, apparently I can "only ever" use a target marker for a healer... but they had 3.. lmao.. and when I pointed that out "I was told" to only mark one healer because the other markers were for the dps and the tank... then I was told this is the way we've always done it in pvp and to L2P or stop queueing. 😂😂😂

This is what happens when pvp gets flooded with pve elitist noobs who think they know everything and then try to enforce their stupid behaviour on the unsuspecting newbies.

If you see idiots doing this, please educate them.

have had a few of those, once was in a AHG and all of the sudden a bunch of my teammates did get marks on them, and I went; "how the hell does the other team manage this . . . ?" Than I realized - "pve elitist noobs", I think the correct label was;), They went in standard Ops Boss kill mode and marked themselves, I politely pointed out the error of their ways, and was handsomely ignored, but after they burnt like overheated toast the marks were gone . . .

IF winning only depended on one's mindset I think I lose far less when on pubside, but at some point we need to discuss how to play the game as intended, and grouping is one part in how the game is intended to play. Theoretically the odds for winning goes up when you play with a group, theoretically mind you, just the same as the odds for a win drastically lowers if one persist to go "pure" pug.

Ya, playing Reps mostly on TRE myself and solo que is out of question.... just headache. Need at least one other in group so we can have some impact. Used to play Imps mostly but got bored of it and Rep gives opportunity for more challenge thus more fun for me Best games I ever had were premade vs premade so queing as group on Rep ends up usually against some Imp premade. Often its competitive that way Sadly even in full group it's possible to lose cos other 4 on the Rep side will most likely be terrible. Trust one to guard a node and game over :/

Was trying to get more people involved in playing Rep or at least join groups but they refuse to learn or listen... even just basics and definately whine too much.

Only problem for me is solo ranked which is catastrofic on Reps unless you know there are 3 other normal players queing... which is 1 or 2 guilds there - thats on TRE.

Been trouncing imps today. It's like they left their brains and skills at home.

 

But biggest gripe at the moment is all the idiots marking non healers in objective pvp. Fk me it is annoying and when you remove the mark to put it on a healer and they remove it from the healer to put it back on their pet dps they want focus.

I even got abused for putting the "wrong" mark on a healer, lol, apparently I can "only ever" use a target marker for a healer... but they had 3.. lmao.. and when I pointed that out "I was told" to only mark one healer because the other markers were for the dps and the tank... then I was told this is the way we've always done it in pvp and to L2P or stop queueing. 😂😂😂

This is what happens when pvp gets flooded with pve elitist noobs who think they know everything and then try to enforce their stupid behaviour on the unsuspecting newbies.

If you see idiots doing this, please educate them.

LOL wow, thats bad direction. If you mark all heals and tanks, then anyone that isnt marked is DPS. Essentially marking them. By that persons logic, you should mark everyone. LOL thats pointless.

 

 

we actually had some really excellent players at launch. They were nearly god like. But we didn't give up and we didn't rage quit. We would grind for hours against them and took our medicine. This ultimately made us better players because we had to use our brains, learn tactics, class skills, research other classes and understand strategy. Sheep didn't survive that pvp and people playing thug pvp got annihilated. We also had a good population, sure it was competive, but we had no toxicity for a long time, so better players would actually help people and guide us because we didn't give them attitude or let egos dictate our will to learn.

Yes were some great players. I played along side them on pubs, and even consider myself one. Still a pub to this day and still have the name in my signature. So why did they leave?

 

Personally I think the introduction of arena and the removal of ranked 8 man was the down fall of intelligent pvp in this game. It dumbed it down to only a few classes being viable in ranked, turned it into a brawl and created inflated egos. This death match attitude was then transplanted into objective pvp and destroyed people's ability to use their brains with tactics and strategy. Ultimately it made people into sheep because they just play follow the gank squad. That destroyed objective pvp, especially on the Imp side. Lots of objective pvpers left the game, but at least the reps still try to play objective pvp.

The mass exodus came after removing 8v8 ranked. You can have both. Players back then wanted choices not limitations, which is why they wanted arena. Instead BW kept the same limitations and just pushed things over to arena and now those dont even pop. And they havent for a long time. I also predicted this in my posts back then on the conversations that occurred prior to the removal of 8v8.

 

I my opinion if we still had some form of ranked objective pvp, there would be 3 types of players in this game. "Real expert" objective players, "Real" arena experts and "Real" crossover players who would probably be the highest skilled players in the game. That breeds better players over time because they'll know regs do matter if they ever want to get to play any form of ranked in the game. It would also give objective players a real competitive outlet for their preferred pvp instead of being perpetually stuck grinding sheep in regs.

As it stands at the moment, Ranked arena probably matters the least in this game because of the toxicity, lack of Bio support and no replenishment of players. Real ranked players are a dying breed, most have left the game or are sick of the jerks and all we have left are Ego's and toxic players with half the skill of what should be required for ranked

I agree with this whole heartedly. You would see more interest in PvP in general climb up. You would people come back to play the style of PvP they prefer. You would see players improve on both sides. Implement a personal MMR system, create a proper algorithm to create a team mmr from the personal mmrs and dont allow teams to face each other with a team mmr gap of X. This will ensure that teams dont face each other where it will be uncompetitive. What could possibly be the arguement against this? What, ranked ques arent going to pop? I can sit for 30 min in a ranked que and no pop. It wouldnt be any different than the current ranked scene.

This also leads to why so many dont play objective for objective. They cant get their deathmatch jollys from Ranked, OWPVP is non existent before and after the PvE instances, so the only place they can get their fix is in an objective based reg.

I agree with Icy +1000. Well said.

I feel bad for Imps trying to pvp all the way from lowbies to lvl 70 like I usually do. There are pvp bots that are ruining matches for them. Just about every match in lowbies has Imp PvP Bots. Essentially the imps are playing with less players. Sometimes it's 8v4 or more common 8v6 all because they have 2-4 bots on their team hiding in stealth.

It's completely killed the lowbie queue even more than usual because no one wants to play with bots.

It's one of the reasons I started to play more rep. It pisses me off when I have bots on my team. If I pop against teams with bots I go bot hunting to make it more fair for their team

In addition to my opening topic, recently I've noticed a contributor to the problem, as of the last patch PvE'ers are coming into PvP in droves.

In one incident, a healer observes me solo guarding a door, watches me get stealth CC'd while another player plants a bomb, openly criticizes me in chat for "letting" it happen, but forgets that it all happened while he watched, and the rest of the group had been lured to fight far from the door....he could've stopped the bomb too, but was too focused on watching me get teamed, or healing the guys that should've been @ the door with me..

In other instances, DPS's are harrassing players over total damage #'s without realizing damage alone isn't gonna win...for example, I'll lure as many players away from an objective to free it for stealthers, spend the whole time stunned & self healing to buy the stealther time to cap.

I've won Huttball with the opponent having triple our numbers, yet we won because we were able to lure them away from ball carriers & use mitigation/self heals to buy time for them to score.

Unlike PvE, damage alone for DPS's isn't a guaranteed win, if you think your "God" in PvE, get ready for a learning curve in PvP, it's not that simple....get over yourself.

In addition to my opening topic, recently I've noticed a contributor to the problem, as of the last patch PvE'ers are coming into PvP in droves.

 

In one incident, a healer observes me solo guarding a door, watches me get stealth CC'd while another player plants a bomb, openly criticizes me in chat for "letting" it happen, but forgets that it all happened while he watched, and the rest of the group had been lured to fight far from the door....he could've stopped the bomb too, but was too focused on watching me get teamed, or healing the guys that should've been @ the door with me..

 

In other instances, DPS's are harrassing players over total damage #'s without realizing damage alone isn't gonna win...for example, I'll lure as many players away from an objective to free it for stealthers, spend the whole time stunned & self healing to buy the stealther time to cap.

 

I've won Huttball with the opponent having triple our numbers, yet we won because we were able to lure them away from ball carriers & use mitigation/self heals to buy time for them to score.

 

Unlike PvE, damage alone for DPS's isn't a guaranteed win, if you think your "God" in PvE, get ready for a learning curve in PvP, it's not that simple....get over yourself.

If the majority of the game is played at mid on hypergate and it is pretty much one big death match and the players damage over the entire match is under 700 k, they are then, pretty terrible. I agree mostly with what you said though, Lately though I have seen dps players on rep side that cant even break 1,2k dps. And that is just god awful. I dont understand how some of these people even survive the day without getting hit by a bus and being trampleld by an emu. Seriously makes me rethink the average intelligence of some of the players in this game. And then they blame me when I am playing my healer for not healing them. Its like "How am I supposed to heal you when you all ignore the 4 people gang banging me and dont offer any form of peeling "?

In addition to my opening topic, recently I've noticed a contributor to the problem, as of the last patch PvE'ers are coming into PvP in droves.

 

In one incident, a healer observes me solo guarding a door, watches me get stealth CC'd while another player plants a bomb, openly criticizes me in chat for "letting" it happen, but forgets that it all happened while he watched, and the rest of the group had been lured to fight far from the door....he could've stopped the bomb too, but was too focused on watching me get teamed, or healing the guys that should've been @ the door with me..

 

In other instances, DPS's are harrassing players over total damage #'s without realizing damage alone isn't gonna win...for example, I'll lure as many players away from an objective to free it for stealthers, spend the whole time stunned & self healing to buy the stealther time to cap.

 

I've won Huttball with the opponent having triple our numbers, yet we won because we were able to lure them away from ball carriers & use mitigation/self heals to buy time for them to score.

 

Unlike PvE, damage alone for DPS's isn't a guaranteed win, if you think your "God" in PvE, get ready for a learning curve in PvP, it's not that simple....get over yourself.

You forgot the part where those same people are also marking their own team ot the dps and tanks on the other team and not healers.

Lowbies and midbes are all about withering away, new player start on their lvl 65/70 Toon, which in turn means that we're getting more and more people into pvp that not been schooled through low- and midbies. All together it means that more players entering swtor pvp at top tier level, is doing so with less knowings of the fundamentals.

I would say this been going on since KotFE. So not necessary pver's could just be plain Newbies . . .

............ Lately though I have seen dps players on rep side that cant even break 1,2k dps. And that is just god awful. I dont understand how some of these people even survive the day without getting hit by a bus and being trampleld by an emu. Seriously makes me rethink the average intelligence of some of the players in this game. ............

I've had wins with the opponent's team having double digit kills down their column, ours having 1,2 or 3, & low damage.

Reason; we had no heals, so we lure them away from the doors, use defensives and self heal long enough to buy time for someone to sneak in.

Solely looking at damage alone isn't telling the story, look at objectives and individual heals, again, there are no enrage timers in PvP, just objectives, kils count, but objectives count more.

You might wanna be careful of any Emu's, avoid an IQ test..