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Arcann romance appreciation thread! Haters keep out please!❤

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Arcann romance appreciation thread! Haters keep out please!❤

Iheaca's Avatar


Iheaca
07.23.2018 , 03:41 AM | #5521
Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodesu View Post
I am sure I have theories elsewhere, but I'm too sick currently to think straight. I have to approach the Force stuff and light/dark so much but I take a lot of my ideas from the Light-side sith warrior conversations (it gets mentioned a lot that she's not sithy enough in the story and I love the discussions between her and herself (tatooine jedi pilgrimage), with Quinn, with Jaesa and almost every Jedi she bumps into.
I'll work on a wall of text.. slowly, might take a couple of days because sick and tired.
I hope that you get better soon!

Ah, if only we could get some small content like a few letters from our favourite characters during summer...
I have spent the last week sending and receiving 18th century style letters as I am participating to an epistolary RPG with 5 other people I do not know. It is really amazing and it made me dream of being able to exchange letters with the NPCs (same kind of idea than being able to chat with them in the cantina on various "everyday life" subjects). I know that the AI behind would not be capable of doing that but it would be so nice to be able to trigger some exchanges...
The Leviathan - Nyx-Nocturna, Ihrae, Del'Ihrae, Shanti-Adamanta, Ainlanna, Ijadyia
From Ashes We Will Rise - fanfiction

DuskIsNotAmused's Avatar


DuskIsNotAmused
07.23.2018 , 09:41 AM | #5522
Quote: Originally Posted by Iheaca View Post
Well, I admit that I do not know much about Mandalorians except what I read on Wookiepedia. I got inspired by the Taung blood duel which is usually to death.
The sith code does not specify darkside use at all but rely on aspects that are considered to be linked to the dark side from the very first words. Getting power through passion is not something jedi will allow themselves to do, it is a typical sith thing. However, that does not imply neither that the Force used has to be dark, it would probably be more like a code of conduct.
By the way, to make a link with our favourite doomed emperor, from the moment we saw Arcann turn to the dark side I wondered if the Force he was then wielding from that moment was dark or not. From many aspects mentioned IG, I would not say it was. He kept using the "un-sided" Force the way he was used to, but he had succumbed to the dark side nonetheless. Which would mean that you can be driven by the dark side and use the Force differently, there would then be a difference between what you are and what you use. And now if you add another layer of complexity: Did the dark side get a complete hold on Arcann or did he have control over it? From the difference in him after the Voss ritual, I'd tend to say the first. So what did the dark side exactly have a hold on? Decisions? Behaviour? But not Force wielding? It does not make much sense.
Take the same situation with a character which is a sith but has not succumbed to the dark side the same way but has a hold over it and it becomes even harder to understand and sort out. If someone has a theory, it is definitely welcome.
As far as I know if a Mandolorian was going to make that challenge it would be a member of clan Cadera (of which he claims to be the last) or cyar'tomade (people who root for your victories) , I don't think Torian had many supporters inside the clans . I'm not sure Mandolorians would make that call (honour duel) to a conflict of the battle of Odessen's type anyway although I think there is a moment in the Bounty hunter's storyline when they are hired to deal with a grudge against a jedi from a previous conflict by Madolorion so who knows -shrugs-

In terms of you force question I can only give you my personal theory. As far as I'm concerned the terms Dark/Light side are more a description of the means in which an individual connects to the force rather than a description of it itself. Lightside is to connect through calm, reason (peace), to connect and respond with your mind not your emotions.
Darkside is to connect through passion, emotions. In this way jedi see the force as a guide/companion. Sith reject this their connection comes through their emotions, to them the force is a weapon, a raw force that they dominate through their passions and turn to their purpose.

That's why Lana's line `may the force ever serve you` resonates for me, it encapsulates her and the sith (her approach to it); To dominate through passion, en-thesis on dominate. your passions are a tool for you to wield, they should not wield you. This is what I think she means when she says to that knight (Zakuul) ` That's the thing with you knights, they never teach you to properly use your anger.` (Quote from memory- may not be correct word for word ) With Sith it's always a fight for control, by the very nature of their connection to the force (preferred), it has to be. Sith are constantly walking the line between controlling or being controlled.

Some sith (the ones that seem to just follow their passions and little else ) could be seen as having failed this battle but the real question is is it a choice? do they follow their passions or are they overpowered by them. Jadus is a good example, I would say he strengthens his connection to the darkside by choosing emotion/conflict above all else, I don't believe emotion takes this choice from him. This sets him apart from less disciplined sith that have lost themselves to their passions despite the similarity to most observers. I think this is what Valky means by him being the best sith. He seems to equate sith with darkside use as well. Which considering as far as we know the original species the fallen jedi mixed with (and their teachings those jedi adopted/adapted) were darkside is fair enough (I still feel there's room for interpretation cultures/disciplines change with the people that follow it. This happened in the jedi historically. As you said - and Ashara I believe?- the sith code seems more a set of guidlines/ a description than rules. Necessary if your discipline revolves around personal freedom/power.)

As for Arcann, He seems to fall very much into the controlled by his emotions category. He is (unintensionally?) connecting to the force through his emotions and unlike the sith he has not been trained to master that approach, just connection through duty. Which explains his and Zakuulan's approach/ demeanour in general. their power is connected to the drive to serve. It's how valky nurtured them (may have pre-dated him somewhat like the sith culture to the dark jedi), Still they are a proud/ powerful people they won't bow to just anybody.

To anybody who has spent a long time in intense uncontrolled emotion, it does make you more predisposed to respond/react that way, and harder to be rational/ have a sense of proportion. Some personality disorders/ mental issues work on this basis ( genetic predisposition and circumstances/ events in their/our lives etc.). This exists in our world. Add to that force powers that increase/ escalate through emotion... well you get the picture.

He's out of control, not completely, he's clinging on. but he's fighting a losing battle. Vaylin found the closest she could find to peace/solace in her prison by stopping fighting (by breaking ). By freeing herself as much as possible by embracing passion/emotion and nothing else...And destroying anyone/thing that attempts to control/contain her with the power that affords. Her coping mechanism for the world was what made her so dangerous. But she wouldn't let you take that away, not anyone. It protected her when noone else did/could.

This also follows for the Jedi, they don't even have the training in managing strong emotion that an average person has (Rep/Imp/other), their order leaves them vulnerable; they succeed at rejecting/ letting go of emotions they're never properly trained in/ prepared for or they fall. Is it any wonder some fail, that any manage is a testament to them/ their survival instinct really.

Anyway rant over, apologies .
Edit: Which incidentally makes me think of this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNRHD5LkpCw

Quote: Originally Posted by Paulsutherland View Post
I'm still poking around here and there on the forums, gaming time is spent doing other things though.
I'm glad you are I'm sure the rest of the Hive are to.

Quote: Originally Posted by Iheaca View Post
I hope that you get better soon!

Ah, if only we could get some small content like a few letters from our favourite characters during summer...
I have spent the last week sending and receiving 18th century style letters as I am participating to an epistolary RPG with 5 other people I do not know. It is really amazing and it made me dream of being able to exchange letters with the NPCs (same kind of idea than being able to chat with them in the cantina on various "everyday life" subjects). I know that the AI behind would not be capable of doing that but it would be so nice to be able to trigger some exchanges...
Yeah small repeatable interactions with companions would be nice. They don't have to be voiced. Just little activities/scenes that raise a little bit of affection/influence and help to feel like your connecting with them outside of causing mayhem (the usual) .
Declaring my undying love and affection for the Star Wars Prequels, Originals and Sequels, Rogue One, Solo a Star Wars Story, the Old Republic + KotFE + KotET
If you're looking to commiserate about how much any of the above suck, this is your friendly notice that I am not the guy/girl/organic you're looking for. Have an excellent day.

DuskIsNotAmused's Avatar


DuskIsNotAmused
07.23.2018 , 10:24 AM | #5523
Quote: Originally Posted by Asmodesu View Post
I am sure I have theories elsewhere, but I'm too sick currently to think straight. I have to approach the Force stuff and light/dark so much but I take a lot of my ideas from the Light-side sith warrior conversations (it gets mentioned a lot that she's not sithy enough in the story and I love the discussions between her and herself (tatooine jedi pilgrimage), with Quinn, with Jaesa and almost every Jedi she bumps into.
I'll work on a wall of text.. slowly, might take a couple of days because sick and tired.
Hope your feeling better soon .
Declaring my undying love and affection for the Star Wars Prequels, Originals and Sequels, Rogue One, Solo a Star Wars Story, the Old Republic + KotFE + KotET
If you're looking to commiserate about how much any of the above suck, this is your friendly notice that I am not the guy/girl/organic you're looking for. Have an excellent day.

Iheaca's Avatar


Iheaca
07.24.2018 , 03:28 AM | #5524
Quote: Originally Posted by DuskIsNotAmused View Post
As far as I know if a Mandolorian was going to make that challenge it would be a member of clan Cadera (of which he claims to be the last) or cyar'tomade (people who root for your victories) , I don't think Torian had many supporters inside the clans . I'm not sure Mandolorians would make that call (honour duel) to a conflict of the battle of Odessen's type anyway although I think there is a moment in the Bounty hunter's storyline when they are hired to deal with a grudge against a jedi from a previous conflict by Madolorion so who knows -shrugs-
Ah. I think that I will allow myself something not totally accurate until I know how I want to change it. I already made some changes to the first chapter of the story and will do others along the way. This chapter might be included at some point.

Quote:
In terms of you force question I can only give you my personal theory. As far as I'm concerned the terms Dark/Light side are more a description of the means in which an individual connects to the force rather than a description of it itself. Lightside is to connect through calm, reason (peace), to connect and respond with your mind not your emotions.
Darkside is to connect through passion, emotions. In this way jedi see the force as a guide/companion. Sith reject this their connection comes through their emotions, to them the force is a weapon, a raw force that they dominate through their passions and turn to their purpose.

That's why Lana's line `may the force ever serve you` resonates for me, it encapsulates her and the sith (her approach to it); To dominate through passion, en-thesis on dominate. your passions are a tool for you to wield, they should not wield you. This is what I think she means when she says to that knight (Zakuul) ` That's the thing with you knights, they never teach you to properly use your anger.` (Quote from memory- may not be correct word for word ) With Sith it's always a fight for control, by the very nature of their connection to the force (preferred), it has to be. Sith are constantly walking the line between controlling or being controlled.
I think that for both sith and zakuulian knights, the Force is a weapon. But a Sith would consider it a weapon that will serve him/her. A Knight considers the force as a weapon to serve the Emperor, or so they say. Which is something that really made me wonder. Now that there is no Emperor/Empress anymore, how do they consider it? Is the Force serving the Commander?

So the Force a companion/friend to the jedi, a weapon for a sith who s/he is worth wielding, a weapon for a knight who is not worth wielding it but is doing so for the glory of the Emperor... Three different relationships where only the sith consider that their own will is in power.

Quote:
Some sith (the ones that seem to just follow their passions and little else ) could be seen as having failed this battle but the real question is is it a choice? do they follow their passions or are they overpowered by them. Jadus is a good example, I would say he strengthens his connection to the darkside by choosing emotion/conflict above all else, I don't believe emotion takes this choice from him. This sets him apart from less disciplined sith that have lost themselves to their passions despite the similarity to most observers. I think this is what Valky means by him being the best sith. He seems to equate sith with darkside use as well. Which considering as far as we know the original species the fallen jedi mixed with (and their teachings those jedi adopted/adapted) were darkside is fair enough (I still feel there's room for interpretation cultures/disciplines change with the people that follow it. This happened in the jedi historically. As you said - and Ashara I believe?- the sith code seems more a set of guidlines/ a description than rules. Necessary if your discipline revolves around personal freedom/power.)
That is a conflicting part for me. The limit between controlling and being controlled might be different from an individual to the other, but many texts say that the only way to become more powerful is to surrender to darkness. But how can you become more powerful by surrendering and not controlling anything? So I tend to think that keeping control is the key, which failed to Arcann, to Vaylin and even to Valkorion who was finally blinded to the point of not even considering that he could be challenged and defeated. But the deeper you go, the harder it must be to keep control so the more you seek power, the more it becomes dangerous. Which is quite fine, it means that a balance is kept somehow.
So, light/dark would be more about the philosophy and approach. There is no such thing about a dark Force or a light one, which goes the way Marr/Shan explain and I am totally fine with it. And Force powers are therefore not really linked to a specific Force, only to the way you choose to use it. A jedi might consider that lightning and choke are too cruel and not use them, but healing could be fine for a sith as long as it serves his/her needs.

Quote:
As for Arcann, He seems to fall very much into the controlled by his emotions category. He is (unintensionally?) connecting to the force through his emotions and unlike the sith he has not been trained to master that approach, just connection through duty. Which explains his and Zakuulan's approach/ demeanour in general. their power is connected to the drive to serve. It's how valky nurtured them (may have pre-dated him somewhat like the sith culture to the dark jedi), Still they are a proud/ powerful people they won't bow to just anybody.
So... controlled by his emotions, definitely. And wielding the Force as a weapon, which is a common ground between sith and zakuulans, except that the former concretely know how to use the weapon for their own sake and the latter don't, which might make them more prone to get overwhelmed. In a way, that would mean that the way Valky put the zakuulan society in place, with him revered almost as a good, guaranteed him to be sure he remained the most powerful, but decreased the power of his own armies at the same time. Odd...

Quote:
To anybody who has spent a long time in intense uncontrolled emotion, it does make you more predisposed to respond/react that way, and harder to be rational/ have a sense of proportion. Some personality disorders/ mental issues work on this basis ( genetic predisposition and circumstances/ events in their/our lives etc.). This exists in our world. Add to that force powers that increase/ escalate through emotion... well you get the picture.
The picture that comes into my mind is a giant nuclear mushroom.

Quote:
He's out of control, not completely, he's clinging on. but he's fighting a losing battle. Vaylin found the closest she could find to peace/solace in her prison by stopping fighting (by breaking ). By freeing herself as much as possible by embracing passion/emotion and nothing else...And destroying anyone/thing that attempts to control/contain her with the power that affords. Her coping mechanism for the world was what made her so dangerous. But she wouldn't let you take that away, not anyone. It protected her when noone else did/could.
Vaylin is an interesting case if you see it like this. She was meant to fail, then, because she was consuming herself. In french we would say something like burning the candle at both ends, I do not know if there is an english equivalent.

Quote:
This also follows for the Jedi, they don't even have the training in managing strong emotion that an average person has (Rep/Imp/other), their order leaves them vulnerable; they succeed at rejecting/ letting go of emotions they're never properly trained in/ prepared for or they fall. Is it any wonder some fail, that any manage is a testament to them/ their survival instinct really.
Ah, we know the Jedi are the poor weak guys, don't we? In a sense, it is right, they cannot be as powerful as a sith can be. But their limit is as well what prevents them from becoming brainless brutes, it can be useful. I would not be surprised that there are more jedi who quitted the order than sith that left.

So, to come back to the initial interrogation, I guess that what matters the most in the sith code is to consider the Force as a weapon or a way to reach your objectives and wielding it that way. It is not the Force that should be considered dark but the way you use it, light being a good and altruistic way, dark being at least more self-centered and less magnanimous. Which I guess makes my Nyx a sith but not a too nasty one.

Quote:
Edit: Which incidentally makes me think of this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNRHD5LkpCw
Nice one. :-)
The Leviathan - Nyx-Nocturna, Ihrae, Del'Ihrae, Shanti-Adamanta, Ainlanna, Ijadyia
From Ashes We Will Rise - fanfiction

Goreshaga's Avatar


Goreshaga
07.24.2018 , 04:20 AM | #5525
Quote: Originally Posted by Iheaca View Post
I think that for both sith and zakuulian knights, the Force is a weapon. But a Sith would consider it a weapon that will serve him/her. A Knight considers the force as a weapon to serve the Emperor, or so they say. Which is something that really made me wonder. Now that there is no Emperor/Empress anymore, how do they consider it? Is the Force serving the Commander?
I'd say either they consider the Commender their new leader and so decide to serve him/her. Or they decide to serve the people of Zakuul and become their protector or to serve the new government of Zakuul.

Quote: Originally Posted by Iheaca View Post
Ah, we know the Jedi are the poor weak guys, don't we? In a sense, it is right, they cannot be as powerful as a sith can be. But their limit is as well what prevents them from becoming brainless brutes, it can be useful. I would not be surprised that there are more jedi who quitted the order than sith that left.
I'd add that's it's probably much easier for a Jedi to become a Sith than for a Sith to become a Jedi.

Quote: Originally Posted by Iheaca View Post
So, to come back to the initial interrogation, I guess that what matters the most in the sith code is to consider the Force as a weapon or a way to reach your objectives and wielding it that way. It is not the Force that should be considered dark but the way you use it, light being a good and altruistic way, dark being at least more self-centered and less magnanimous. Which I guess makes my Nyx a sith but not a too nasty one.
I pretty much agree with that.
Wich make both my Sith true Sith but not brainless brutes eirther.
I'd say that my SI was probably darker than my SW though as he mostly fought for himself until he became a Dark Counsilor, while my SW always used his strenght to serve the Empire above everything else.

DuskIsNotAmused's Avatar


DuskIsNotAmused
07.24.2018 , 05:04 AM | #5526
Quote: Originally Posted by Iheaca View Post
Ah. I think that I will allow myself something not totally accurate until I know how I want to change it. I already made some changes to the first chapter of the story and will do others along the way. This chapter might be included at some point.


I think that for both sith and zakuulian knights, the Force is a weapon. But a Sith would consider it a weapon that will serve him/her. A Knight considers the force as a weapon to serve the Emperor, or so they say. Which is something that really made me wonder. Now that there is no Emperor/Empress anymore, how do they consider it? Is the Force serving the Commander?

So the Force a companion/friend to the jedi, a weapon for a sith who s/he is worth wielding, a weapon for a knight who is not worth wielding it but is doing so for the glory of the Emperor... Three different relationships where only the sith consider that their own will is in power.


That is a conflicting part for me. The limit between controlling and being controlled might be different from an individual to the other, but many texts say that the only way to become more powerful is to surrender to darkness. But how can you become more powerful by surrendering and not controlling anything? So I tend to think that keeping control is the key, which failed to Arcann, to Vaylin and even to Valkorion who was finally blinded to the point of not even considering that he could be challenged and defeated. But the deeper you go, the harder it must be to keep control so the more you seek power, the more it becomes dangerous. Which is quite fine, it means that a balance is kept somehow.
So, light/dark would be more about the philosophy and approach. There is no such thing about a dark Force or a light one, which goes the way Marr/Shan explain and I am totally fine with it. And Force powers are therefore not really linked to a specific Force, only to the way you choose to use it. A jedi might consider that lightning and choke are too cruel and not use them, but healing could be fine for a sith as long as it serves his/her needs.


So... controlled by his emotions, definitely. And wielding the Force as a weapon, which is a common ground between sith and zakuulans, except that the former concretely know how to use the weapon for their own sake and the latter don't, which might make them more prone to get overwhelmed. In a way, that would mean that the way Valky put the zakuulan society in place, with him revered almost as a good, guaranteed him to be sure he remained the most powerful, but decreased the power of his own armies at the same time. Odd...


The picture that comes into my mind is a giant nuclear mushroom.


Vaylin is an interesting case if you see it like this. She was meant to fail, then, because she was consuming herself. In french we would say something like burning the candle at both ends, I do not know if there is an english equivalent.


Ah, we know the Jedi are the poor weak guys, don't we? In a sense, it is right, they cannot be as powerful as a sith can be. But their limit is as well what prevents them from becoming brainless brutes, it can be useful. I would not be surprised that there are more jedi who quitted the order than sith that left.

So, to come back to the initial interrogation, I guess that what matters the most in the sith code is to consider the Force as a weapon or a way to reach your objectives and wielding it that way. It is not the Force that should be considered dark but the way you use it, light being a good and altruistic way, dark being at least more self-centered and less magnanimous. Which I guess makes my Nyx a sith but not a too nasty one.


Nice one. :-)
I wasn't trying to make you change it you asked if there was anything I saw differently thats all

Yes we have burning the candle at both ends to ^^

I think we should make the distinction, Rational/emotional it doesn't always follow as good/bad as we've seen throughout the starwars universe.

They're not the weak ones, just ill prepared .

Thank you, not an especially unique choice I'm sure , but the song fits my perception of the sith (although darkside might be more accurate? fallen jedi etc.).
Declaring my undying love and affection for the Star Wars Prequels, Originals and Sequels, Rogue One, Solo a Star Wars Story, the Old Republic + KotFE + KotET
If you're looking to commiserate about how much any of the above suck, this is your friendly notice that I am not the guy/girl/organic you're looking for. Have an excellent day.

Iheaca's Avatar


Iheaca
07.24.2018 , 07:43 AM | #5527
Quote: Originally Posted by DuskIsNotAmused View Post
I wasn't trying to make you change it you asked if there was anything I saw differently thats all
Oh there is no issue at all. I like to try my best to be acurate whenever there is something solid to cling to. So I appreciate opinions such as yours. Final decisions are mine and mine alone anyway and I already know from past discussions that there are things coming that are based on own interpretation that are not shared by others here. We cannot agree on everything.
Changes I have made so far were mostly additions (such as giving more insight on what Arcann did between Voss and the moment when we meet him again at his sister's festival), but I plan to do some other small changes in the choices of words in other chapters, and probably give more substance to chapter 2 as well. But well, for the moment, daily letters take my free time.^^
The Leviathan - Nyx-Nocturna, Ihrae, Del'Ihrae, Shanti-Adamanta, Ainlanna, Ijadyia
From Ashes We Will Rise - fanfiction

DuskIsNotAmused's Avatar


DuskIsNotAmused
07.24.2018 , 02:28 PM | #5528
Hey, do any of you know if travelling abroad effects you logging into your characters/game account?
Declaring my undying love and affection for the Star Wars Prequels, Originals and Sequels, Rogue One, Solo a Star Wars Story, the Old Republic + KotFE + KotET
If you're looking to commiserate about how much any of the above suck, this is your friendly notice that I am not the guy/girl/organic you're looking for. Have an excellent day.

Iheaca's Avatar


Iheaca
07.24.2018 , 03:07 PM | #5529
Quote: Originally Posted by DuskIsNotAmused View Post
Hey, do any of you know if travelling abroad effects you logging into your characters/game account?
As long as it is on your computer, no difference.
The Leviathan - Nyx-Nocturna, Ihrae, Del'Ihrae, Shanti-Adamanta, Ainlanna, Ijadyia
From Ashes We Will Rise - fanfiction

DuskIsNotAmused's Avatar


DuskIsNotAmused
07.24.2018 , 03:41 PM | #5530
Quote: Originally Posted by Iheaca View Post
As long as it is on your computer, no difference.
Thank you!
Declaring my undying love and affection for the Star Wars Prequels, Originals and Sequels, Rogue One, Solo a Star Wars Story, the Old Republic + KotFE + KotET
If you're looking to commiserate about how much any of the above suck, this is your friendly notice that I am not the guy/girl/organic you're looking for. Have an excellent day.