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The portrayal of the Sith: Wasted potential


Xqirrel

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Yo guys, this is my first post on the forums, so be gentle :p

 

I recently started playing the SW story, and the way my character developed led me to realize how much potential is constantly being wasted in how the Sith, and the dark side in general, is portrayed in Star Wars.

 

My Sith is not some crazy, charicature, she is not some lunatic that goes around killing puppies - she basically is Daenerys Targaryen, just evil :)

 

Imagine a world where the Sith are not constantly portrayed as this ridiculous, over the top interpretation of space Nazis - instead they are the powerful, merciless rulers of a powerful, authoritarian interstellar empire, almost worshipped like demigods by their subjects.

 

Which villain actually portrays themselves as evil? Nobody does, including the Sith! The sith don't see themselves as evil, in their minds they are the good guys - and the Jedi are nothing but a perversion of nature, an affront to the natural order.

 

When i think of a sith lord in my head i don't think of Darth Sidious, or Snoke - I'm thinking of Tywin Lannister, of Julius Caesar, of Darken Rahl (if anybody read the sword of truth)!

 

I actually think that is what they tried to do with Valkorion - who is a better, and more intimidating Sith that Vitiate ever was, imo!

I'm tired of the same, rehearsed version of space Nazis in every new Star Wars film - who in their right mind would actually fight for these idiots?

 

Disclaimer: this post has no point, i just was bored and felt like rambling :p

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if you don't want to play a ridiculous, over the top interpretation of a space Nazi, then don't choose dark side all the time. It's not necessary to torture Vette, and you relying on a device to keep your slave in check could actually be seen as a weakness. Don't break Jaesa by slaughering everyone she ever knew, you can turn her to the dark side just by showing her the hypocrisy of the Jedi.

 

Of course she then will still turn into a carricature of a Sith which is how she was taught a Sith would behave. Aside from the one you create, there aren't many moustache twirling villains among the Sith ingame, someone who poses a danger to society won't last long in a place where it's perfectly acceptable to execute troublemakers on the spot.

 

Vitiate is an exception among the Sith, most Sith wouldn't want to be the god of a dead galaxy. Sure, some would love being a god, but not without worshippers. Once they find out someone plans to destroy the galaxy to become a god, the Sith will stop at nothing to hunt him down, not even at allying with Jedi.

Edited by Mubrak
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I know, which is exactly what i'm doing, it actually is a lot more fun to stay "in character", and thinking about a specific personality that you want to portray!

 

It's less about gameplay, i actually think SWTOR does a decent job in that regard, its more a point relating to visual design and athmosphere, and its actually far worse in the movies imo. Just look at Darth Sidious: he is a deranged, petty, giggling parody of a villain. You know that episode of Rebels where the Emperor talks to Ezra through his hologram? He looks like a benevolent, wise, powerful figure, not like some charicature straight out of a Tolkien movie. He seems almost diabolical, and - i a way - way "scarier" than the actual guy.

The Nazis were ****ed up, yes, but they didn't portray themselves this way! Thats why people got brainwashed, and believed that they actually were doing the right thing!

 

You know the movie "Jupiter Ascended"? Imagine that movie as a Star Wars movie, with the "Entitled" as Sith Lords.

 

Then compare that to the First Order, which is just a collection of edgy, angry kids, running around laughing maniacally.

Have the Sith be more like the Klingons, or the Roman Empire, and less about "me dark side, me evil, muahaha"

 

I dunno, maybe i just have a vivid imagination :p

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This Sith are puppy kickers.

 

They ar ruled by their passions and whims.

 

They are not necessarily ‘evil’ , but they are impulsive and have no filter. Imagine a 6 year old with unlimited power. That is a Sith.

 

Any Sith that is calculated and conniving is denying his passion

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This Sith are puppy kickers.

 

They ar ruled by their passions and whims.

 

They are not necessarily ‘evil’ , but they are impulsive and have no filter. Imagine a 6 year old with unlimited power. That is a Sith.

 

Any Sith that is calculated and conniving is denying his passion

 

I would argue that Darth Bane never once denied his passions, yet he didn't kick puppies and was very very calculating.

Edited by Torakenat
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I would argue that Darth Bane never once denied his passions, yet he didn't kick puppies and was very very calculating.

 

Pretty much. The Sith aren't always puppy kicking lunatics, although it is the stereotype many Sith portray themselves as. This game has lots of examples of Sith who aren't that stereotype,Darth Vowrawn, Darth Malgus, Darth Marr, Empress Acina, Lana Beniko and even to an extent Darth Jadus I would say.

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Didn't he murder children in front of their parents? That's usually the type of thing that "puppy kicking" is a euphemism for.

 

Darth Bane followed and taught the mantra that you kill only when it is necessary or beneficial to the sith. Not whimsical like kicking puppies as you stroll through the streets while whistling 'singing in the rain'.

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Look at Malgus. He didn't just kill on a whim. Many Sith are just mustang twirling bad guys. Sotme are quite methodical.

 

My Sith Warrior, he's much more Samurai in nature. He kills his enemies without remorse, but doesn't kill innocents who have taken no arms against him. He just doesn't see the point of it.

Edited by TalonVII
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The Nazi's, The Roman Empire and Persian Empire before them did not see themselves as "Evil" Per Se as the Sith and Empire here neither. They all considered themselves as "Bringing Order to a Chaotic Environment" Everybody else see's, judges this as Oppressive. Too much Order can seem like Oppression and Too Much Freedom can lead to Anarchy. Both sides do have merit and both sides in excess can spoil everything. Oppression and Freedom are both Relative terms and depend entirely on who's speaking at that moment. I like freedom very much, but if somebody smash's my car I want to know the system will make sure it doesn't happen again and again. The Sith seem to drive themselves to their potential and acts in attaining that that most would not. Even Vader knew when making a deal would lead to more then simply killing everybody around. Somebody that seemed a Mindless Killer I wouldn't think would live very long as nobody would trust them and around the other Sith, that person would be judged as unpredictable and dangerous.
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Somebody that seemed a Mindless Killer I wouldn't think would live very long as nobody would trust them and around the other Sith, that person would be judged as unpredictable and dangerous.

 

A mindless killer would forever be limited to a few choices.

 

He could serve someone who needs an attack dog, gaining some protection from enemies through the political power of his master. He could get ganged up on, and eventually put down, by those who think he's too unstable to have in the same neighborhood. He could also go into exile somewhere he doesn't encounter other Sith (or Jedi) who care what he's doing.

 

Whatever "freedom" he thinks there is in killing everyone who looks funny at him will imprison him even worse than before.

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Yo guys, this is my first post on the forums, so be gentle :p

 

I recently started playing the SW story, and the way my character developed led me to realize how much potential is constantly being wasted in how the Sith, and the dark side in general, is portrayed in Star Wars.

 

My Sith is not some crazy, charicature, she is not some lunatic that goes around killing puppies - she basically is Daenerys Targaryen, just evil :)

 

Imagine a world where the Sith are not constantly portrayed as this ridiculous, over the top interpretation of space Nazis - instead they are the powerful, merciless rulers of a powerful, authoritarian interstellar empire, almost worshipped like demigods by their subjects.

 

Which villain actually portrays themselves as evil? Nobody does, including the Sith! The sith don't see themselves as evil, in their minds they are the good guys - and the Jedi are nothing but a perversion of nature, an affront to the natural order.

 

When i think of a sith lord in my head i don't think of Darth Sidious, or Snoke - I'm thinking of Tywin Lannister, of Julius Caesar, of Darken Rahl (if anybody read the sword of truth)!

 

I actually think that is what they tried to do with Valkorion - who is a better, and more intimidating Sith that Vitiate ever was, imo!

I'm tired of the same, rehearsed version of space Nazis in every new Star Wars film - who in their right mind would actually fight for these idiots?

 

Disclaimer: this post has no point, i just was bored and felt like rambling :p

 

Daenerys only goes for the major dark side points if there is no other option on the table, she values the council she gets and won't disregard it when there are potentially better options on the table. she accepted advice from Tyrion Lannister and even trusted her potential rival to the iron throne in Jon Snow who leads the forces in the north. Even though her alliances start out on a rocky path, it gets better as it goes along.

 

Unlike your Sith character, you only got a smart mouth twi'lek and a fat sith at the start as your only source of understanding and then you get a bootlicker imperial captain who will keep you firmly in the dark side camp and none of them really offer their advice to you. then you get jaesa and depending on the side chosen you will be giving her advice instead of the other way around. At least Pierce offers a few bits of wisdom, but otherwise he remains hands off and finally you get a 4 eyed carpet following you around who wants to kill everything he sees.

 

bad example you got there.

 

People fought for the actual Nazis in real life. Sith aren't that ridiculous. Besides, its not as if Game of Thrones doesn't have it's own share of "puppy kicking" characters.

 

Roose Bolton only allied with who was strongest and those willing to advance the Bolton cause.

Then Ramsey Bolton came along and he showed us what a true Human being is capable of without the ethics and rules to get in the way, he is the perfect embodiment of a Sith. a depraved lunatic who is capable of seperating his "work" from his free time like it was a switch that can be flipped at any moment.

Edited by Celise
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I might actually upload my playthrough with her, as I'm recording the dialogues anyway, you'll know what i mean :p

 

Also keep in mind that the SW comes from a Sith family, he/she is basically nobility... It makes sense to know a bit or two about the Sith way of thinking. My Sith is basically a "moral" person... It's just that because of how she grew up and was educated, her definition of "right and wring" are fundamentally different from the Jedi, or people in the republic. It's actually pretty nice, I'm going through the effort of actually going through every dialogue choice and then doing what "feels" right.

If i have the time i'll upload it, everyone needs a hobby :p

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  • 3 weeks later...
Pretty much. The Sith aren't always puppy kicking lunatics, although it is the stereotype many Sith portray themselves as. This game has lots of examples of Sith who aren't that stereotype,Darth Vowrawn, Darth Malgus, Darth Marr, Empress Acina, Lana Beniko and even to an extent Darth Jadus I would say.

 

Now with most of these exmaples I will agree. However Darth Jadus is exactly the puppy kicking montrous variety of Sith. The only difference between him and the usual Sith of the sort is that he kicks puppy in a creepy soft-spoken sadist kind of way instead of in a burning rage. After all his end goal is to have everyone in the empire live in "fear and degradation" and his favorite pastimes include torturing ships full of civilians to madness and being an absuive father. Pretty much the only worse sith lords are the dread master, who are ******* crazy due to being mindr*ped by dark side atefacts themselves and the Sith emperor himself who made crossing the moral event horizon his daily workout routine.

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Now with most of these exmaples I will agree. However Darth Jadus is exactly the puppy kicking montrous variety of Sith. The only difference between him and the usual Sith of the sort is that he kicks puppy in a creepy soft-spoken sadist kind of way instead of in a burning rage. After all his end goal is to have everyone in the empire live in "fear and degradation" and his favorite pastimes include torturing ships full of civilians to madness and being an absuive father. Pretty much the only worse sith lords are the dread master, who are ******* crazy due to being mindr*ped by dark side atefacts themselves and the Sith emperor himself who made crossing the moral event horizon his daily workout routine.

Mostly Darth Jadus does things with a purpose, I am by no means condoning his actions, however his actions are done with purpose despite being extremely twisted. He isn't merely kicking puppies for the sake of kicking puppies. Dread Masters are indeed stereotypical which is why I dislike them, and that comment about Tenebrae had me genuinely chuckled, I think he's a very cool villain but "crossing the moral horizon his daily workout rotine" is the most accurate description I've ever heard.

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  • 1 month later...

Siths aren't necessarily "space nazis", but they are fueled by their passions and focus on the most negative ones. Of course there will be some puppy kicking at some point... But, as others said, most of them have a purpose : Darth Jadus plan to make averyone fall into fear and degradation. He doesn't do this for the evuls, but because it will make him more powerful. The Emperor is similar in that regard, as he fed on the fear of others during his early life, before starting to feed off people souls. The sad truth is, the corruption of the Dark Side is not needed for amoral and sadist people to exist... but the Dark Side do corrupt people into amoral and selfish monsters. At best, a Darksider is a well intentionned monster, but he is a monster still.

 

My main character, the Sith Inquisitor, is a pragmatic, sympathetic monster : she wants to power (both political an through the Force), can and will do anything to achieve this goal. She has some sadist streaks, where she can torture people just because it's fun (or because they pissed her off)... but she will also try to avoid unnecessary casualties and wishes to achieve peace and become a benevolent ruler.

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The Sith pretty much are mustache-twirling villains in the Star Wars universe, which is why they are portrayed that way in SWTOR. Think Vader in the original films, ordering Alderaan destroyed or choking out Admirals that have failed him for the last time. ;)

 

It is part and parcel to the nature of the dark side.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
It's the shoulder-pads and spikes-on-everything look. There are lots of interesting sith NPCs throughout the game, but it can be hard to take them seriously when they look like they're doing sith cosplay. If your shoulder-pads prevent you from walking through a doorway, you're trying too hard.
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  • 3 weeks later...

Apologies for the thread-necro but I just noticed it.

 

I agree that how Sith are portrayed could be so much more complex and detailed compared to what we have in game. Starting with the Sith species, they had a thriving albeit militaristic culture before getting first enslaved by the Rakata and later by the Dark Jedi who ramped things up with mind control and genetic manipulation to breed out traits like empathy to mold the Sith species to be more like them, then start breeding with them to harness how naturally strong with the Force they were.

 

What we mostly see if the Sith: The Order, it's just built off the Dark Jedis equivalent of a teen's rebellious overreaction which has pretty much obliterated any perception of Sith: The Species as having once had its own culture. Not helping either is the Jedi inability to deal with any culture's interpretation of the Force which isn't thier own and reinforcing the concept of Sith: The People = Sith: The Order.

 

I'd be very curious to see more of what a culture that had it's own interpretation of the Force shaped by a people where everyone had some degree of ability with it as well as being able to sustain themselves from it as if it were food. So far we've only seen a little of the Sith Pureblood fear of becoming extinct with Lord Abbadon's quest on Korriban, the Red Reaper flashpoint, and dialog like Lord Praven's about the Jedi wanting to genocide the Sith people.

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Apologies for the thread-necro but I just noticed it.

 

I agree that how Sith are portrayed could be so much more complex and detailed compared to what we have in game. Starting with the Sith species, they had a thriving albeit militaristic culture before getting first enslaved by the Rakata and later by the Dark Jedi who ramped things up with mind control and genetic manipulation to breed out traits like empathy to mold the Sith species to be more like them, then start breeding with them to harness how naturally strong with the Force they were.

 

What we mostly see if the Sith: The Order, it's just built off the Dark Jedis equivalent of a teen's rebellious overreaction which has pretty much obliterated any perception of Sith: The Species as having once had its own culture. Not helping either is the Jedi inability to deal with any culture's interpretation of the Force which isn't thier own and reinforcing the concept of Sith: The People = Sith: The Order.

 

I'd be very curious to see more of what a culture that had it's own interpretation of the Force shaped by a people where everyone had some degree of ability with it as well as being able to sustain themselves from it as if it were food. So far we've only seen a little of the Sith Pureblood fear of becoming extinct with Lord Abbadon's quest on Korriban, the Red Reaper flashpoint, and dialog like Lord Praven's about the Jedi wanting to genocide the Sith people.

 

If you're interested about that I'd recommend buying the "Book of the Sith:Secrets of the Dark Side", the first chapter goes over the original Sith species and how their culture helped shape the Sith Order.

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If you're interested about that I'd recommend buying the "Book of the Sith:Secrets of the Dark Side", the first chapter goes over the original Sith species and how their culture helped shape the Sith Order.

 

I snapped that one up last year and it's not bad at all. My only complaint is that first chapter's still penned by one of the Dark Jedi and filtered through her perspective. To the History Major in me, it's the equivalent of the account written by the Roman trader about those pants wearing hairy barbarians they saw on thier last trip. It's a pretty close compared to something written centuries later but not quite on par of a person of that culture's documentation.

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I snapped that one up last year and it's not bad at all. My only complaint is that first chapter's still penned by one of the Dark Jedi and filtered through her perspective. To the History Major in me, it's the equivalent of the account written by the Roman trader about those pants wearing hairy barbarians they saw on thier last trip. It's a pretty close compared to something written centuries later but not quite on par of a person of that culture's documentation.

 

Yeah, I see your point. Would be interesting to get something like King Adas' writings or an Ancient Sith Warlord or even Priest talking about their society.

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