They both do about the same on a dummy, but engineering is more difficult in a raid setting because of the manual placement of plasma probe and orbital. Eng has a bit more burst for adds but with marksman being **** no one is bringing a sniper anyway for add duty. So has anyone found eng better on some fights, because it seems virtulence, while slightly less impressive on the dummy, it is better in a live raid setting? Edited February 13, 2016 by bbare

Well there's some fights where engineering does about same dps as virulence, if you figure out the timing for plasma probe/orbital. Like Bulo for instance, if you can time it nicely, you don't have any wasted dps. But to be fair, in hm you can play anything you want and it's fine, even marksman yeah .

 

So i'll just assume that this pertains to nim.

 

As for better, well tho i prefer virulence for most fights there are some fights where i go engineering.

Dash'roode i prefer engineering for the numerous adds. I also prefer it for trasher, to kill snipers up top. Titan 6 i still go virulence but engi works beautifully there too. Draxus i'd go engineering (or bring my merc, rip marksman). Bestia is also a valid choice, as is malaphar. Lurker is probably one of the few fights where engineering is the best spec (if all aoe's are placed properly). Think that's pretty much it.

 

Well those are all fights where engineering can be better or atleast same. Might not be 100% accurate but my opinion anyway.

Time to have a fun debate. As most people would probably say what you do and that virulence out performs engineering in raid environments I'd have to disagree on most fights.

Df- Nefra (engi), Draxxus (engi) , grob (engi) , c0 (engi, personally my favorite engi fight as you can easily pull between 7.6 and 8.2 without trying) , brontes (still up in the air, I played mm on my first kill but since that spec is aids now and I haven't pulled it since idk what to play right now)

DP- bestia (engi) , tyrans (viru) , calph (engi) , raptus (engi) , council (viru or engi , both are really good)

TFB- writhing (engi) , dread guards (engi or viru depending on your groups ability to handle the ads) , operator (engi) , Kephess (lol play mm if u want this fight will forever be a joke) , TFB (engi , you'll just have to be aware on boss hp cuz to much plasma probe can actually push boss)

SnV- dash (engi) , Titan (engi) , trasher (engi or mm, either works) , op chief (whatever spec works) , olok (engi) , warlords (viru) , styrak (viru)

Ec- z&t (viru) , tanks (viru) , vorgath (engi) , Kephess (engi)

ToS & Rav - engi for all except with a debate of revan , if your good at revan and you've done the strafing method for abs then engi but if not play viru

 

Hope all of this helps. Again these are all personal preference and like Tyrlen said above, HM you can play whatever really.

I guess you can summarise tool's and my point like this: most fights are good for both specs, it just depends on what you are better at. For me, i'm def more of a virulence player then engi (tho ofc i'll play both) and tool's better at engi. So for him he'll have better results playing engineering while i can get higher numbers on virulence, on the same fights.

 

A separate point is that i prefer to play virulence because of the debuff it gives since i'm the only one on my raid team giving it (since it's not worth playing I.O. ) The engi debuff of 10% more aoe dmg is less handy imo. So that depends on your dps comp i'd say.

 

Either way, learn and master both and then try 'em out. You can be suprised at the results sometimes. Engineering probably has the higher learning curve in terms of learning the timings of boss movement and placements of your plasma probe/orbital. Then again proper multidotting can give you an advantage in virulence.

 

I'd say play what you're best at for 90% of the fights.

I guess you can summarise tool's and my point like this: most fights are good for both specs, it just depends on what you are better at. For me, i'm def more of a virulence player then engi (tho ofc i'll play both) and tool's better at engi. So for him he'll have better results playing engineering while i can get higher numbers on virulence, on the same fights.

 

A separate point is that i prefer to play virulence because of the debuff it gives since i'm the only one on my raid team giving it (since it's not worth playing I.O. ) The engi debuff of 10% more aoe dmg is less handy imo. So that depends on your dps comp i'd say.

 

Either way, learn and master both and then try 'em out. You can be suprised at the results sometimes. Engineering probably has the higher learning curve in terms of learning the timings of boss movement and placements of your plasma probe/orbital. Then again proper multidotting can give you an advantage in virulence.

 

I'd say play what you're best at for 90% of the fights.

This exactly

the problem with engi is that it suffers against bosses that move around a lot. the upside for engi is that that is only true on a few fights, most bosses are stationary enough that losses are negligible. another upside for engi is the great aoe damage. for some bosses this is awesome, but for others not helpful.

 

since the 2 specs are so close in potential, it really comes down to which you prefer. i have been in love with viru since it was still lethality and nothing in the current meta is compelling enough to get me to change it.

Never understood why people think they need to manually place orb strike or probes, just double click the key and it puts it right on your target! Works for all classes that have a placeable attack

Never understood why people think they need to manually place orb strike or probes, just double click the key and it puts it right on your target! Works for all classes that have a placeable attack

 

I think people just don't know it. Wasn't this automatic targetting introduced not earlier than Revan ? ( Argh, my grammar strikes again ! )

Edited February 24, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

Never understood why people think they need to manually place orb strike or probes, just double click the key and it puts it right on your target! Works for all classes that have a placeable attack

 

Double click placing will centre the reticle on the target. In a lot of cases you may want to place it off center when you can predict the direction of movement for the target. For example when I precast orbital going into burn phase on brontes ill allign it slightly closer to the entrance side of the room because that's the direction the boss will head and I'm less likely to lose ticks.

Double click placing will centre the reticle on the target. In a lot of cases you may want to place it off center when you can predict the direction of movement for the target. For example when I precast orbital going into burn phase on brontes ill allign it slightly closer to the entrance side of the room because that's the direction the boss will head and I'm less likely to lose ticks.

 

Yes, i agree that this is good practice, and also do it myself, and regularly place them over mobs that dont move and shoot from range. I still think despite the manual targeting its still a better spec than virul, it hits like a truck and is very smooth in terms of playstyle and cooldowns. Each to their own i suppose.

I have been running mostly engi post 4.0 but I have been running SS since launch. I do still run SS on draxus and usually hit between 5-5.5k. My team has pulled together a 16HM team and while we're putting everyone through their paces I've been running SS just so I can watch all the other dps and make sure they aren't screwing up mechanics. I pulled 6,3xx on malaphar while basically only watching other dps play. SS is not by any means better than DF or engi but it isn't s***. I also tend to be the dps on ads and constantly bossing other dps around to keep group composition together while passing phases.

It is that bad tho, if you're trying to beat any dps checks. 16m hm ? yeah ofcourse it's not gonna matter there since it's hm and 16m at that. But if you're trying to beat nim enrages, in 99% cases marksman is not gonna cut it or you are being carried. It's sad but just the way it is atm. You speak of doing 5-5,5k on draxus on marksman which ofc isn't bad but with engi you can easily top 6k. I think our last run i topped out at 6,7 our so.

The only fight I use something other than Saboteur/Engineering on is Torque. I outperform Virulence/Dirty Fighting in all other fights....MM / SS doesn't come close.

As many others have highlighted before it comes down to whatever you play the best and feel most comfortable with, however if we play with the thought that you are equally good with both speccs and want to maximize your performance it becomes more interesting. First of all we need to identify which bosses that we should use as examples and here I am strictly going to go on DPS requirements combined with mechanical execution which gives on Styrak Tanks and Brontes. Styrak, manifestation as well as diversity in terms of phases have been proving to be challenging for DPS since it was released, secondly Tanks is just mentioned cause I think the DPS requirements are really high. Brontes on the other hand is much more end focused with the first few phases being simple and the last being severely harder with DPS requirements being borderline ridiculous.

 

On Styrak, I would prefer using Virulence, the reason is that the triple cull rotation which is more common now is exactly what you can fit in on the manifestation, sure you have a bit of a build up resulting in Mini-Styraks taking a bit longer and in between manifestation and mini-styrak you don't get the full damage potential of for example MM. Overall tho, I personally find this fight to be far easier to execute correctly in virulence compared to engineering and the few pulls where I have been able to compare Viru vs Engi I end up quite a bit higher on starparse, both overall and on challenge.

 

Tanks feels like self explanatory, any fight in which you can dot up your targets before in order to maximize cull, as well as the opportunity to double dot both tanks and on top of that, get your dots on 2, or 3 if lucky, adds makes virulence once again feel superior. I admit however that engineering might be a tad more effective on the adds under the shield as you can manually place probe on all three while you are unlikely to get dots on more than two, but I feel that is to minor of a detail, however this is up for debate tho, I know Thrax liked engineering on tanks even more than old MM.

 

Until the last phase of Brontes I don't feel like a comparison between any of the three speccs really is relevant, you won't have any issues passing through these regardless and neither of the phases have any high DPS requirements or mechanics which makes either of the speccs superior. However, in the last phase I personally prefer Virulence over any other specc, I feel like the ability to put up your dots during the shields/channel, ability to DPS while on the move with dots/insta lethal shot makes virulence better.

 

Conclusion: Yes, there are reasons to play engineering instead of virulence for most raids, unless you are doing the hardest bosses, any specc is totally doable for a Sniper. However, if one is looking at only the most complicated and challenging raiding bosses, Virulence does outperform engineering assuming you feel comfortable and are equally skilled with both speccs. Long story short, play what you prefer unless you are doing really hard stuff.

Edited April 3, 2016 by RikuvonDrake