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Guild Leveling in 5.10

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Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
11.10.2018 , 04:54 PM | #11
So......The studio made changes that drove away all the other members of my 3 guilds, and only now you make changes to guilds?

What about making something interesting to do to encourage people back, rather than fiddle while Rome burns?

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Fantastic news! / sarcasm.
-Storm Cutter.
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Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
11.10.2018 , 05:18 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Storm-Cutter View Post
So......The studio made changes that drove away all the other members of my 3 guilds, and only now you make changes to guilds?

What about making something interesting to do to encourage people back, rather than fiddle while Rome burns?

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Fantastic news! / sarcasm.
I welcome all of these additions but it sure is a funny time to introduce them. There's nothing that could bring people back into my guild other than a new major expansion. Regardless if story or group focused, every single previous expansion was pulling players back in and even if they left, they were soon back again thanks to yet another expansion released not too long after.

By mid-to-late 2019, it will be 3 years since the last one. Absolutely ridiculous for an MMO. Nothing damaged the population more than their expansion-less approach post-KOTET. I don't know if their recent reversal of that decision ain't gonna be too little too late, many may have already moved on permanently.
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LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
11.10.2018 , 05:33 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Storm-Cutter View Post
So......The studio made changes that drove away all the other members of my 3 guilds, and only now you make changes to guilds?

What about making something interesting to do to encourage people back, rather than fiddle while Rome burns?

--------------

Fantastic news! / sarcasm.
How about a new PvP map? Ooo, or maybe a new NiM op?

... oh wait...
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AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
11.11.2018 , 04:37 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Darevsool View Post
When they can make ALL planets/titles available for each of the three tiers I won’t have any issues with guild invasion options forced by guild size. However, they don’t have that. As such forcing a guild to be permanently locked out of the invasion for RISHi, as an example, your idea is a bad one.
I was never writing about "forcing out". That planet could be there a few weeks later. Or are guilds so impatient these days they want to have it all and now ?

What you mean sounds to me as if you still want big guilds to be able to take away what small guilds should be able to have.

Your proposal sounds to me exactly like what is GSF now : Let top tier teams match against school children teams. And of course it is clear who will win, then.
Complex minds
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TSCYoda's Avatar


TSCYoda
11.11.2018 , 06:40 AM | #15
Eric, the theme is overall great....but for tiny Guilds there is no real forecome.
For example my guild is existing on both sides since nearly 2 years.
Actual we are a brunch of 3-4 players - real friends - who love doing a lot stuff with our favorite chars.
So we get our cap of 170.000 points never, thats also no goal of us...but we would need approximately 15-30 weeks to gain the first step (while big conquest guilds make 15...20 steps! a week).

I am also in such a big conquest guild with one char...and don't love the pressure to do as much conquest as possible every day to gain as many conquest points as possible FOR THE GUILD to catch the planets the leader wants to.
This isnt spoken out...but every one feels the pressure and gets kindly kicked in the *** every time he makes less conquest points as the management willing

In my own two guilds there isn't any pressure but with this intended changes i don't see any forecome for tiny guilds with a handful friends playing together.

Some of you now say: its your problem, go in a bigger guild...but i think the mayority of all players doesnt want pressure for a loving game and only have lovely times playing together with friends.

Progress-guilds are making their way automatically - and being the biggest with most reputation can be a real goal, but dont forget the majority )



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aryss's Avatar


aryss
11.11.2018 , 07:40 AM | #16
Another long post in answer to your long post, Eric. Not that you’ll take notice or anything, ‘cause you never do seeing as you don’t really care about what your players think. But I’m too feed up with things to keep quiet again.
So, let’s go in order, shall we?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,
Here is a TLDR for you: Guild Levels are earned via Conquest Points. As you gain levels you can slot perks into your Guild Ship to provide a variety of benefits, leveling also gives you new benefits for XP, CXP, and Reputation gain.
Another change tha benefits big guilds. Hurrah! You’ve been claiming you want to help small guilds for a long while now, yet every change made has done nothing but hurt them. You simply are incapable of learning, are you?

Quote:

What is Guild Leveling and How Does it Work?
Guild leveling is fairly simple at its core. Similar to a player character, Guilds will now earn Guild Experience. As they hit the next Guild XP target, they will level up. Guilds start at level 1 and can theoretically, level infinitely.

Guild XP is earned by players in the Guild earning Conquest points. Players will earn 2 Guild XP for every 1 Conquest points earned. Ex: If a player reaches their Personal Weekly Conquest target of 15,000 Conquest points, they would earn 30,000 Guild XP for their Guild.

Currently, there is a weekly Guild XP cap of 8,000,000 (or 4,000,000 Conquest points worth). We expect that our very large Guilds will regularly hit the cap, but the majority of Guilds will not.
This artificial bottleneck is completely useless. Big guilds will still have an advantage right from the start, so why limit their potentials this way? Oh, yeah. It’s because you’ve run out of ideas for new content, so you’re trying to feed us another grind to give us something to do while you develop another mindless storyline like KOTET/KOTFE, in which we’re simply following our companions’ lead. Good job, you’ll win over a lot of players this way! (That was sarcasm, btw).

Quote:

Every time a Guild levels up, a few things happen:
  • They receive a fixed amount of Guild Commendations (these are used to purchase Guild Perks)
  • The amount of XP, CXP, and Reputation earned by the Guild increases. These values start at 5% XP, 5% Rep, and 0% CXP and they steadily increase until they cap at 15% XP, 15% Rep, and 10% CXP.
    • This is a new benefit as players can now reach higher bonuses to XP and Rep than ever before, without relying on Guild size. Plus we have introduced a new bonus to CXP which did not exist previously.
  • At specific Guild Level breakpoints, Guilds will qualify to purchase higher Tiers of Guild Perks.
1) When 5.0 came around, you got rid of a lot of currencies because “they were too many”. I agreed, but it didn’t matter because you introduced new ones at pretty much every other turn. Now you’re doing it again – not only for Guild Leveling, but also for the new gear and the new daily area. Make up your bloody minds, will you? This just gets more and more pathetic the longer it goes on.
2) Lies. The bigger the guild, the faster they can reach XP/Rep/CXP bonuses so, yes. Players will still need to rely on guild size to grind those faster. Also, instead of introducing another CXP bonus – assuming it’s not something we’ll have to unlock for every character via the legacy tab – why don’t you finally make the existing one STACK? We’ve been asking that for months and you’re still ignoring us.
3) Again, a nudge for big guilds, a stepback for small ones. Well done, you just keep getting better and better at alienating your player base. It’s a talent, I must admit.

Quote:

What Are Our Goals?
Now that you have a basic understanding of how Guild Leveling works, let’s talk about how we arrived at this plan and what our goals are. First and foremost, we wanted to add a whole new set of incentives for players to be a part of a Guild. SWTOR is a social game at its core and so we want to do all that we can to encourage people to play together. However, we also understand that many players like to play with just their small circle of friends in small Guilds, and so the system needed to work for everyone. Second, one of our goals for Conquests was to work as a system to incentivize players to be rewarded for playing any and all content in SWTOR. By tying Conquests and Guild Leveling together it means that by simply playing the game, you will be earning Guild XP for your Guild. Whether you want that to be a focus of your Guild to level as fast as possible, or to just let it happen, you should be gaining Guild levels as you play.
SWTOR hasn’t been a social game for a long time, now. So stop lying and admit that you made a lot of mistakes along the way and start fixing them. We don’t need a group for a lot of activities because getting a companion to lvl 50 will basically give you a god-like entity that can heal you, do massive damage or tank almost as good as a real player.
This system will not work for small guilds, because you don’t want it to work for them. Your goal is as clear as day: you just want to have 2, max 3 mega guilds per server so you can stop worrying about the CQ system altogether. A system you managed to break for a lot of people, because it does not help small guilds at all nor it is designed to be alt-friendly.
And why should tying Conquests and Guild Leveling mean that people can be “rewarded for playing any and all content”? It’s not true and we all know it. All but you guys, of course.

Quote:

In a moment we are going to share some key breakpoints that exist in our plan for Guild leveling. We built these targets with two key pieces of information. The current amount of Conquest points that Guilds are earning across all yield sizes and the continued potential for Conquest point gains based on the additional Conquest changes coming in 5.10 and the added Conquest point potential from Perks.
“The current amount of Conquest points that Guilds are earning across all yield sizes”… you do know that monitoring your RAM usage is not the same as monitoring this, right? I’m only asking because your numbers never makes sense and yet you still insist on saying stupid things like this. Seriously, how many people do you think actually believe the crap you’re trying to feed us?

Quote:

Specifics
Let’s talk about some specific numbers for Guild Leveling. Two quick disclaimers:
  • As always, everything is subject to change.
  • It is unlikely we would make any sweeping changes from these targets until all of you get your hands on it. These numbers are already based on Weekly Conquest data, and so we are going to be hesitant in any big changes until we see how it plays on live. Just know that we will be monitoring this every week along with listening to your feedback to look for areas to make changes.
In other words: “Everything is subject to change if we feel you’re not playing the game how we want you to play it, so don’t even bother giving us suggestions ‘cause we’re not going to listen. But thanks for reading this long winded bull******** post. Appreciate it!”

Quote:

Reminder - 1 Conquest Point = 2 Guild XP

For context on XP vs Leveling, going from level 1 to level 2 requires 1,000,000 Guild XP. Going from 2-3 requires another 1,010,000 -or- 2,010,000 total (for the math lovers out there, this curve is not necessarily incremental). We expect that Guilds which are hitting Small Yield Planetary targets will be gaining around 3 or so levels a week. This can vary greatly based on Guild size and activity.
Again, I’d like to know what kind of numbers are you monitoring, because there is no way guilds that goes for small yields – which are always won by big guilds that goes for them btw, just like we told you it would happen (something you completely ignored, as usual) – can earn “3 or so levels a week”. The big ones? Sure. Medium sized guilds? Maybe 1.5/2 levels. All the others, that is to say the majority on every server? Not a chance in hell.

Quote:

Here are some key breakpoints:
  • Level 6 - Guild reaches 10% bonus XP and Reputation
  • Level 12 - Guild qualifies for Tier 2 Guild Perks
  • Level 32 - Guild qualifies for Tier 3 Guild Perks
  • Level 40 - Guild has capped XP and Reputation Gains at 15% bonus
  • Level 49 - Guild qualifies for Tier 4 Guild Perks
  • Level 51 - Guild has capped CXP Gains at 10% bonus
  • Level 64 - Guild qualifies for Tier 5 Guild Perks (current highest tier)
  • Level 65+ - Guild will continue to earn Guild Commendations but there is no gameplay benefit beyond level 64. There will be cosmetic rewards that may be introduced in a later patch tied to Heraldry that will take Guild Level into account.
This isn’t even worth a comment, tbh.

Quote:

We know that some of you may do the math on average levels per week and the breakpoints of some of these benefits and be concerned. This is one of the reasons we are also introducing a cap. We want to show you the breakpoints so that you know that this is a system with a long tail on it, that we intend to support for a long time going forward. Guild Leveling isn’t meant to be something your Guild can do in a week and then just ignore. We want to be able to provide something new that your Guild can be working towards every week!

Also, by having a cap we know the pace that the fastest possible Guilds can level. This allows us to plan when and how to introduce perks into economy. Definitely take a look at our Perk post to get your head around how Perks can affect your Guild.
Will you just stop lying, for once in your damn life?!
This is not a system you intend to “support for a long time” nor is it something that guilds “can be working towards every week”. It’s just another way – same as the new gear tiers and the ways to acquire them – for you to keep us quiet while you grasp at straws trying to find some new end-game content to give us.
You are effectively killing the game a bit more with every and each new update and you simply don’t care.
I don’t want you to cater to every dimwitted whiner that comes your way, but if a thread about a new change gets 180 pages of people saying “this is a bad idea” do not close it down and replace it with a new one – that gets closed down too. Address the issues your players are bringing to your attention and do something about it! This game cannot go on on people that sub once and then either stay preffered or leave. This game needs its most loyal players, if there are still some currently active and paying for a sub each month. And yet, you do your very best to alienate all of those that stayed with you no matter what.
If you wanna close the game because you’re not interested anymore or because you wanna move on onto bigger projects, then do it! Stop trying to string us along with lies, omitted truths and this general bull******** behavior.
It’s unbecoming and insulting. For you, but especially for us.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
11.12.2018 , 03:06 AM | #17
This will clearly lead to the death of small guilds so if I may suggest some kind of buff for small guilds in terms of Conquest points to Guild XP conversion. Lets say if Guild A has 1000 members they get 1 Guild XP for 1 Conquest point. Guild B has 100 members so they get 10 Guild XP for 1 Conquest point.

This would mean that any guild has a chance to level up. The system you suggest only favors big guilds and would force small guilds to grind, which is not always fun. By giving the small guilds a chance it will make them actually participate in the leveling and would make the size of guild irrelevant.

Yes, there is lots to be discussed about this, but please consider it.
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Noicha's Avatar


Noicha
11.12.2018 , 03:25 AM | #18
Tying guild levels to conquest points is a bad idea. I for one will tell all my members in the guild that we are not going to focus more on conquest than we already do (weekly PvP and GSF missions).

The rest of the time my members shall be free to do exactly what they want to, this is a game, our hobby. Not every player cares about those "go to X planet, do Y activity". We like to run yet another alt through the story, perhaps bein dogmatic and do all exploration missions on the way, running the specific FP that is tied to the story line.

Suggestion: Tie the guild level system to XP / CXP gains and we all benefit, not just guilds that arrange all events based on "this week conquest achievements".

Lyriel's Avatar


Lyriel
11.12.2018 , 12:41 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
-snio-
What Are Our Goals?
Now that you have a basic understanding of how Guild Leveling works, let’s talk about how we arrived at this plan and what our goals are. First and foremost, we wanted to add a whole new set of incentives for players to be a part of a Guild. SWTOR is a social game at its core and so we want to do all that we can to encourage people to play together. However, we also understand that many players like to play with just their small circle of friends in small Guilds, and so the system needed to work for everyone. Second, one of our goals for Conquests was to work as a system to incentivize players to be rewarded for playing any and all content in SWTOR. By tying Conquests and Guild Leveling together it means that by simply playing the game, you will be earning Guild XP for your Guild. Whether you want that to be a focus of your Guild to level as fast as possible, or to just let it happen, you should be gaining Guild levels as you play.
-snip-
I bolded the ridiculous part.

Seriously, this plan in conjunction with the proposed Conquest changes shows the exact opposite. This system does not work for everyone.
  • You leave the goals for Conquest the same but do very, very little to increase the ability to earn points by any method other than throwing sheer numbers of players at them. The 'new' repeatables are pathetic. You are not incentivizing any more content than you were before (except EC - and I mean, seriously? EC? 10 boring fights?). And I'm sure you're not discussing the point yields for these 'new' repeatables because they are insignificant.
  • My small guild can't make the current small yield planet goal except once in a blue moon *now* - in what universe do you think we're going to make multiple levels a week? We won't make multiple levels in a *year* without some significant changes to repeatability. You seem to conflate 'guilds on the top 10 board' with 'guilds who are working on Conquest' for a given week. We are *not* all like the big guilds that dominate the top of the boards.
  • By tying Guild Perks to the ranks and Conquest system, you are signing small guilds' death warrants. You will start tuning content to 'average' guild levels and perks (because the cries of 'omg it's too easy now!' will start dominating the forum). How long before PUGs reject people who don't have the right perks active? They already kick for what they consider insufficient gear.

It certainly appears that your unstated goal is to force everyone into large guilds, or out the door. I know which option I'll take when the time comes.
"I'm not a warrior, I'm a soldier. There's a difference. Warriors attack and conquer, they prey on the weak. Soldiers defend and protect the innocent—usually from warriors."
―Carth Onasi, hero of the Republic

JattaGin's Avatar


JattaGin
11.13.2018 , 02:15 AM | #20
I think that the amount of replies to this topic says a lot about the interest in it. Only 2 pages from Friday to Tuesday morning. Dulfy's and Reddit didn't trigger much interest in it either.

All those minor things they did and do to this game are good things and they make sense to me. However, it all comes years too late. Right now, the only thing that can save this game is as much new content as possible. The last 2 years have been a massive drought, contentwise. And you notice it everywhere. As I wrote some weeks ago: If not even the hardcore haters on Dulfy's say more than "meh", that's a bad sign.

People are waiting for 5.10. Not because of guild or conquest changes. Because of Ossus. New story. New stuff to do.

I don't mind this guild leveling thingy at all. Sounds good to me. All my guilds during the years have died though. And none of those players that left have returned so far. And none of those changes will make them come back. Good new content might.
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