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Guild Leveling in 5.10

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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
11.09.2018 , 11:11 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey folks,

In Game Update 5.10 we will be introducing a brand new system to the game, Guild Leveling. Guild Levels tie heavily into both Conquests and Guild Perks, so please look out for forum posts on both of those other topics to get the full picture of what is changing! Fair warning, there is a lot of information to cover so expect a fairly long post.

Here is a TLDR for you: Guild Levels are earned via Conquest Points. As you gain levels you can slot perks into your Guild Ship to provide a variety of benefits, leveling also gives you new benefits for XP, CXP, and Reputation gain.

What is Guild Leveling and How Does it Work?
Guild leveling is fairly simple at its core. Similar to a player character, Guilds will now earn Guild Experience. As they hit the next Guild XP target, they will level up. Guilds start at level 1 and can theoretically, level infinitely.

Guild XP is earned by players in the Guild earning Conquest points. Players will earn 2 Guild XP for every 1 Conquest points earned. Ex: If a player reaches their Personal Weekly Conquest target of 15,000 Conquest points, they would earn 30,000 Guild XP for their Guild.

Currently, there is a weekly Guild XP cap of 8,000,000 (or 4,000,000 Conquest points worth). We expect that our very large Guilds will regularly hit the cap, but the majority of Guilds will not.

Every time a Guild levels up, a few things happen:
  • They receive a fixed amount of Guild Commendations (these are used to purchase Guild Perks)
  • The amount of XP, CXP, and Reputation earned by the Guild increases. These values start at 5% XP, 5% Rep, and 0% CXP and they steadily increase until they cap at 15% XP, 15% Rep, and 10% CXP.
    • This is a new benefit as players can now reach higher bonuses to XP and Rep than ever before, without relying on Guild size. Plus we have introduced a new bonus to CXP which did not exist previously.
  • At specific Guild Level breakpoints, Guilds will qualify to purchase higher Tiers of Guild Perks.

What Are Our Goals?
Now that you have a basic understanding of how Guild Leveling works, let’s talk about how we arrived at this plan and what our goals are. First and foremost, we wanted to add a whole new set of incentives for players to be a part of a Guild. SWTOR is a social game at its core and so we want to do all that we can to encourage people to play together. However, we also understand that many players like to play with just their small circle of friends in small Guilds, and so the system needed to work for everyone. Second, one of our goals for Conquests was to work as a system to incentivize players to be rewarded for playing any and all content in SWTOR. By tying Conquests and Guild Leveling together it means that by simply playing the game, you will be earning Guild XP for your Guild. Whether you want that to be a focus of your Guild to level as fast as possible, or to just let it happen, you should be gaining Guild levels as you play.

In a moment we are going to share some key breakpoints that exist in our plan for Guild leveling. We built these targets with two key pieces of information. The current amount of Conquest points that Guilds are earning across all yield sizes and the continued potential for Conquest point gains based on the additional Conquest changes coming in 5.10 and the added Conquest point potential from Perks.

Specifics
Let’s talk about some specific numbers for Guild Leveling. Two quick disclaimers:
  • As always, everything is subject to change.
  • It is unlikely we would make any sweeping changes from these targets until all of you get your hands on it. These numbers are already based on Weekly Conquest data, and so we are going to be hesitant in any big changes until we see how it plays on live. Just know that we will be monitoring this every week along with listening to your feedback to look for areas to make changes.

Reminder - 1 Conquest Point = 2 Guild XP

For context on XP vs Leveling, going from level 1 to level 2 requires 1,000,000 Guild XP. Going from 2-3 requires another 1,010,000 -or- 2,010,000 total (for the math lovers out there, this curve is not necessarily incremental). We expect that Guilds which are hitting Small Yield Planetary targets will be gaining around 3 or so levels a week. This can vary greatly based on Guild size and activity.

Here are some key breakpoints:
  • Level 6 - Guild reaches 10% bonus XP and Reputation
  • Level 12 - Guild qualifies for Tier 2 Guild Perks
  • Level 32 - Guild qualifies for Tier 3 Guild Perks
  • Level 40 - Guild has capped XP and Reputation Gains at 15% bonus
  • Level 49 - Guild qualifies for Tier 4 Guild Perks
  • Level 51 - Guild has capped CXP Gains at 10% bonus
  • Level 64 - Guild qualifies for Tier 5 Guild Perks (current highest tier)
  • Level 65+ - Guild will continue to earn Guild Commendations but there is no gameplay benefit beyond level 64. There will be cosmetic rewards that may be introduced in a later patch tied to Heraldry that will take Guild Level into account.
We know that some of you may do the math on average levels per week and the breakpoints of some of these benefits and be concerned. This is one of the reasons we are also introducing a cap. We want to show you the breakpoints so that you know that this is a system with a long tail on it, that we intend to support for a long time going forward. Guild Leveling isn’t meant to be something your Guild can do in a week and then just ignore. We want to be able to provide something new that your Guild can be working towards every week!

Also, by having a cap we know the pace that the fastest possible Guilds can level. This allows us to plan when and how to introduce perks into economy. Definitely take a look at our Perk post to get your head around how Perks can affect your Guild.

This is a lot of information to digest. Please, let us know your feedback!

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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NikSunrider's Avatar


NikSunrider
11.09.2018 , 04:30 PM | #2
I am not sure I am getting your math here, Eric....

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

Reminder - 1 Conquest Point = 2 Guild XP

For context on XP vs Leveling, going from level 1 to level 2 requires 1,000,000 Guild XP. Going from 2-3 requires another 1,010,000 -or- 2,010,000 total (for the math lovers out there, this curve is not necessarily incremental). We expect that Guilds which are hitting Small Yield Planetary targets will be gaining around 3 or so levels a week. This can vary greatly based on Guild size and activity.

Current Small Yield is 170k. 1 CQ Point = 2 GXP.. so 170,000 conquest points = 340k GXP.

That's less than a third of what it takes to get one guild level, not three.
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Elssha
11.09.2018 , 05:55 PM | #3
Quote:
Guild XP is earned by players in the Guild earning Conquest points. Players will earn 2 Guild XP for every 1 Conquest points earned

I would argue tying guild points to XP/CXP would be nicer than tying it to conq points earned (obviously with a different equivalency, but I'll leave that to you).

That way members earn points for just doing things, and smaller guilds that can't orgnaize conq farms aren't at a disadvantage (and players can *really* do what they want, esp since you're already capping the max earned.

Conq points already have a purpose and reward, and some weeks just hitting cap can be tedious, especially when doing things on alts or in guilds that can't organize big conq pushes (GF lockout runs, WB/Commander/Base Guard/etc farms).

Basing it off XP/CXP would make playing anything help, and not require planning to execute properly (there's charts and tallies out there being used by people trying to maximize the amount of toons earning mats as we speak).


Some people do several HM/NiM ops a day, but only get credit for one for conquest (and it doesn't matter if they did HM or NiM... and if they did a LO or full run). That just happen to be on the wrong toon since your main is locked or the group needed you on a different class/role? Sucks to be you!

Examples like that are endless, and if the goal with guild leveling is to let smaller guilds flourish (again, you said you're capping it anyway!) this would make that far more inclusive of niche guilds.

It would also let specialized guilds do JUST what they specialize in and still stay in the running, and since the current conquest rewards are (I assume) staying, it wouldn't lessen *their* appeal since people will still want those rewards.

Do stuff on a toon in the guild and guild benefits. Simple.
Do stuff that's a conq objective and the guild benefits in two ways!

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Damask_Rose
11.09.2018 , 07:58 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Elssha View Post

I would argue tying guild points to XP/CXP would be nicer than tying it to conq points earned (obviously with a different equivalency, but I'll leave that to you).

That way members earn points for just doing things, and smaller guilds that can't orgnaize conq farms aren't at a disadvantage (and players can *really* do what they want, esp since you're already capping the max earned.

Conq points already have a purpose and reward, and some weeks just hitting cap can be tedious, especially when doing things on alts or in guilds that can't organize big conq pushes (GF lockout runs, WB/Commander/Base Guard/etc farms).

Basing it off XP/CXP would make playing anything help, and not require planning to execute properly (there's charts and tallies out there being used by people trying to maximize the amount of toons earning mats as we speak).


Some people do several HM/NiM ops a day, but only get credit for one for conquest (and it doesn't matter if they did HM or NiM... and if they did a LO or full run). That just happen to be on the wrong toon since your main is locked or the group needed you on a different class/role? Sucks to be you!

Examples like that are endless, and if the goal with guild leveling is to let smaller guilds flourish (again, you said you're capping it anyway!) this would make that far more inclusive of niche guilds.

It would also let specialized guilds do JUST what they specialize in and still stay in the running, and since the current conquest rewards are (I assume) staying, it wouldn't lessen *their* appeal since people will still want those rewards.

Do stuff on a toon in the guild and guild benefits. Simple.
Do stuff that's a conq objective and the guild benefits in two ways!
My cynical take on their odd choice of tying guild xp to conquest points is that their earlier changes to conquest severely hurt participation in conquest, but they are too stubborn to admit it was a mistake and fix it, so they are trying to pump the conquest numbers back up in a round about way.

I would greatly prefer having guild leveling tied to xp/cxp so all of my activities counted and the small guilds I'm in might actually get a level or two eventually. Well, maybe this way will resuscitate my nearly dead conquest guild.

DZechman's Avatar


DZechman
11.09.2018 , 08:38 PM | #5
I have a VERY simple question: Why is 1 CQ point equal to 2 Guild XP points?

Why not a simple 1:1 accounting and having all the GXP targets be half what they are?

Isn't that functionally the exact same thing?
What purpose is served by doubling the total? Based on your description, there would be no possible way for a guild to ever have an odd number of points (unless by fractional bonuses that are GXP-specific and rounding).

Just wondering....

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Erebos_Jax
11.10.2018 , 12:07 AM | #6
Reading all this and I'm just like meh... why? To liven up the the conquest system they updated and hipped up but silenced down quite soon after?

In addition hearing about major guild update I was hopping that they would at least make the guilds legacy based. That would have made it easier for players to play with characters they like while increasing the guild activity. Also it would have made it a little easier to estimate the guild members activity and increased the guild max size.
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Syal
11.10.2018 , 01:48 AM | #7
ho god more grind...

3 weeks on small yield conquest dedication for small guild to get 1 level... and you want them to go lvl 65...

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NikSunrider
11.10.2018 , 04:20 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Erebos_Jax View Post
Reading all this and I'm just like meh... why? To liven up the the conquest system they updated and hipped up but silenced down quite soon after?

In addition hearing about major guild update I was hopping that they would at least make the guilds legacy based. That would have made it easier for players to play with characters they like while increasing the guild activity. Also it would have made it a little easier to estimate the guild members activity and increased the guild max size.
I'd be fine with that (legacy guilds) as long as the cap was decent. ESO has a limit of 5, and that cap is sorta appropriate for that game. But for SWTOR? I'd need at least 8! (considering my 2x private guilds, 2x raiding guilds, 2x socail guilds, 1x conquest guild...)
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AlrikFassbauer
11.10.2018 , 06:15 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
We expect that Guilds which are hitting Small Yield Planetary targets will be gaining around 3 or so levels a week. This can vary greatly based on Guild size and activity.
We alreasdy have huge guilds going for small targets. Are there plans to hinder big and huge guilds from permnanently using small targets as "farming tools to get xp" ?

One way could be, imho, to let big to huge guilds get fewer amounts of GXP than small ones in combination with small targets.

I mean, only big targets should be for big guilds, not vice versa.

Only big guilds should be capable and allowed to get lots of GXP with big targets.
(Small guilds should get a bonus, for theit bravery, so to say, to even try it, but given that small guilds will *never* be able to reach a big targt ...)

I just wish an incentive to make big guilds stay out of small targets. There's a reason why the top tier soccer / football teams have a league among themselves, and are not allowed to play with school children teams (in opposite to GSF, by the way).
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Darevsool
11.10.2018 , 10:41 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
We alreasdy have huge guilds going for small targets. Are there plans to hinder big and huge guilds from permnanently using small targets as "farming tools to get xp" ?

One way could be, imho, to let big to huge guilds get fewer amounts of GXP than small ones in combination with small targets.

I mean, only big targets should be for big guilds, not vice versa.

Only big guilds should be capable and allowed to get lots of GXP with big targets.
(Small guilds should get a bonus, for theit bravery, so to say, to even try it, but given that small guilds will *never* be able to reach a big targt ...)

I just wish an incentive to make big guilds stay out of small targets. There's a reason why the top tier soccer / football teams have a league among themselves, and are not allowed to play with school children teams (in opposite to GSF, by the way).
When they can make ALL planets/titles available for each of the three tiers I won’t have any issues with guild invasion options forced by guild size. However, they don’t have that. As such forcing a guild to be permanently locked out of the invasion for RISHi, as an example, your idea is a bad one.
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