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Can we talk about 258 gear?


kukumburr's Avatar


kukumburr
10.26.2018 , 06:05 PM | #1
Here's what is currently on PTS:
  • Each piece of gear costs 4 masterwork shards (MWS), except for helm, chest, and legs, which cost 5. MH and OH are NOT available for purchase on the 258 vendor. All gear requires Hero rep except bracers and belt, which require Newcomer.

  • You can buy one MWS per week for 500 UCs. You can keep buying more but the cost is increased to 1000 UCs until the reset (not sure if this increases any further).

  • You can get one MWS per week from the Ossus weekly that requires you to do 4 Heroic missions.

  • You can get one MWS per week from the rotating Weekly mission. Only one I know of is complete 4 Master FPs. Presumably there will be some PvP related ones too.

  • MWS are bound to character, not legacy.

  • 51 MWS for everything on the vendor. Assuming you get 3 MWS a week, it would be about 4 months to get everything except MH/OH (not including the time it takes to grind rep).

  • To gear by MWS, you HAVE to complete all current story (assuming the daily area requires you to have completed the Ossus story). The only other option would be transferring armorings/mods across legacy (is this possible?).

  • Other options to get 258 gear: unassembled tokens which drop from NiM GotM (not sure about who drops what) or crafting which has insane CMT costs and likely expensive NiM GotM drops. Crafting would not require you to complete story. 258 MH/OH are currently available from crafting.


Now here are my issues with this:
  • I'm hoping this one is just a mistake on PTS, but MH and OH need to be on the 258 vendor. If the only way to get those is via super expensive crafting or NiM GotM, I will never be getting them. Please tell me this is not intentional as it is an incredibly bad idea.

  • BiS gear should not be BoE (via crafting). If getting BiS gear is a grind, it should be a grind for everyone. Only extremely wealthy players or the rare snowflake that does both NiM GotM and lots of ranked PvP will be able to get the crafted gear. Why can they bypass the grind? It sets a bad precedent and will encourage some people with too much disposable income to buy credits or flip stuff on the GTN (which I can only imagine is your intention with this).

  • You should not be required to be caught up on story to get BiS gear. You reach level 70 well before you get to current story arcs. Why should they be disadvantaged in doing harder group content just because they want to do the story at their own pace? I have a few characters that I do ranked PvP on who haven't gotten all the way through KotFE yet, but I do intend to get through it eventually. I don't want to skip it and have the game make choices for me. But now I have to rush through it so that I'll be able to get BiS gear again.

  • MWS should be legacy-wide. What does it matter what character I do stuff on? I'm still doing it. I don't know why you have this great system for alts but don't use it.

  • The grind is too long. Especially if you don't like doing PvE. If you only PvP, the UC cost is quite high, especially when the price goes up to 1000 per MWS. If this is how you plan on doing gear from now on please for the love of god bring back PvP gear. I don't mind having to do SOME grind, but I'd prefer to have the choice of WHAT to grind.

  • Why include a new complicated gearing system on top of an already complicated gearing system? Isn't this just making 230-248 gear pointless to go after? No one should spend UCs on them anymore since they have to hoard them for 258. There will be a greater gear gap then ever now that you can essentially jump straight to 258. I mean what's even the point of the 252 gear? Why would anyone waste 2 shards on each piece of those?

LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
10.26.2018 , 06:15 PM | #2
We really need expertise back. That way, BiS pvp gear is obtainable by doing pvp and BiS pve gear is obtainable by doing NiM.
Darth Malgus
Odhul'sen - La Croisée
Typhojem - La Croisée Impériale

alexsamma's Avatar


alexsamma
10.26.2018 , 06:27 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
We really need expertise back. That way, BiS pvp gear is obtainable by doing pvp and BiS pve gear is obtainable by doing NiM.
This is the only way to keep both gearing systems fair.

Until Bioware re-introduces PVP specific gear back into the game you are not going to be able to please both progression raiders and pvpers.

Loading into a warzone or solo ranked match and finding yourself on a team full of 119-122k hp players is pathetic, the concept of increasing this gear disparity is just insane.

Finally bolster, in it's current implementation, is simply not a feasible solution since it does not bolster tertiary stats, armor rating (unless this has been adjusted), or augments.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
10.26.2018 , 06:56 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
We really need expertise back. That way, BiS pvp gear is obtainable by doing pvp and BiS pve gear is obtainable by doing NiM.
I tend to agree, the only issue I see that would likely lead to big discontent is that if the only way to get BIS PVE gear is NiM 90% of the player base won't be able to get BIS PVE gear which would lead to a ton of pissed off players.

I do think your suggestion is how it should be, but we need to consider the welfare of the game, since 4.0 BIS gear has been accessible not having to do NiM, that's what people have grown use to [wasn't that way before 4.0, it was as you suggest than mostly], and right or wrong we don't want to see a big player loss. Pandora's Box.

Spare the rod, spoil the child. Too late now

If the proposed system as on the PTS proves to be how things are when it goes live, I will be full 258 BIS geared out 10 minutes after 5.10 goes live.A sizable minority of PVPers are sitting on a ton of UCs [I have 60,000] anyone who does as well will join me. Yeah it seems like a 'good' thing, but it shouldn't be possible. That's way to fast and leaves the player in the exact same position as now.

I do feel BIS gear shouldn't be easy to get, or fast to get. While many don't have that many UCs saved, I tend to think probably 25% may very well be sitting on similar amounts. The might consider putting a limit on how many peices of 258 a player could get per week, 2 per week perhaps. That would extend the gearing up time and not leave the players with a horde of UCs having such an overwhelming advantage compared to the larger segment of the player base right out of the gate and thus still give purpose towards some time spent in order to get full BISed out.

Regarding the 258 off-hand/main hand, not being obtainable like the rest of the 258, on the one hand I can see how that would piss off a lot of players if the only way to get it was NiM or ridiculous amounts of credits from crafted source [BIS gear should not be craftable at all ever for any reason or anyone], but also give the nod to those players able to do the hardest content in the game. As much as I might see that perspective, 90% of the player won't ever get 258 mainhand and off hand, which quite honestly is that Grand poo bears of all gear as they have the highest increase of stat value out of all gear.

To be fair, people who aren't interested in PVE or PVP shouldn't be forced to play a content type they don't like/play. All BIS gear should be fully obtainable solely in each game type. If PVPers can't get offhand/mainhand doing only PVP they will lose their minds. - Which is why PVP gear is the best option for PVPers.

PVE and PVP shouldn't share the same gear. The Raider/PVPer mentality with regard to gearing can't be reconciled.

Totemdancer's Avatar


Totemdancer
10.26.2018 , 07:21 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by kukumburr View Post
Here's what is currently on PTS:
  • Each piece of gear costs 4 masterwork shards (MWS), except for helm, chest, and legs, which cost 5. MH and OH are NOT available for purchase on the 258 vendor. All gear requires Hero rep except bracers and belt, which require Newcomer.

  • You can buy one MWS per week for 500 UCs. You can keep buying more but the cost is increased to 1000 UCs until the reset (not sure if this increases any further).

  • You can get one MWS per week from the Ossus weekly that requires you to do 4 Heroic missions.

  • You can get one MWS per week from the rotating Weekly mission. Only one I know of is complete 4 Master FPs. Presumably there will be some PvP related ones too.

  • MWS are bound to character, not legacy.

  • 51 MWS for everything on the vendor. Assuming you get 3 MWS a week, it would be about 4 months to get everything except MH/OH (not including the time it takes to grind rep).

  • To gear by MWS, you HAVE to complete all current story (assuming the daily area requires you to have completed the Ossus story). The only other option would be transferring armorings/mods across legacy (is this possible?).

  • Other options to get 258 gear: unassembled tokens which drop from NiM GotM (not sure about who drops what) or crafting which has insane CMT costs and likely expensive NiM GotM drops. Crafting would not require you to complete story. 258 MH/OH are currently available from crafting.


Now here are my issues with this:
  • I'm hoping this one is just a mistake on PTS, but MH and OH need to be on the 258 vendor. If the only way to get those is via super expensive crafting or NiM GotM, I will never be getting them. Please tell me this is not intentional as it is an incredibly bad idea.

  • BiS gear should not be BoE (via crafting). If getting BiS gear is a grind, it should be a grind for everyone. Only extremely wealthy players or the rare snowflake that does both NiM GotM and lots of ranked PvP will be able to get the crafted gear. Why can they bypass the grind? It sets a bad precedent and will encourage some people with too much disposable income to buy credits or flip stuff on the GTN (which I can only imagine is your intention with this).

  • You should not be required to be caught up on story to get BiS gear. You reach level 70 well before you get to current story arcs. Why should they be disadvantaged in doing harder group content just because they want to do the story at their own pace? I have a few characters that I do ranked PvP on who haven't gotten all the way through KotFE yet, but I do intend to get through it eventually. I don't want to skip it and have the game make choices for me. But now I have to rush through it so that I'll be able to get BiS gear again.

  • MWS should be legacy-wide. What does it matter what character I do stuff on? I'm still doing it. I don't know why you have this great system for alts but don't use it.

  • The grind is too long. Especially if you don't like doing PvE. If you only PvP, the UC cost is quite high, especially when the price goes up to 1000 per MWS. If this is how you plan on doing gear from now on please for the love of god bring back PvP gear. I don't mind having to do SOME grind, but I'd prefer to have the choice of WHAT to grind.

  • Why include a new complicated gearing system on top of an already complicated gearing system? Isn't this just making 230-248 gear pointless to go after? No one should spend UCs on them anymore since they have to hoard them for 258. There will be a greater gear gap then ever now that you can essentially jump straight to 258. I mean what's even the point of the 252 gear? Why would anyone waste 2 shards on each piece of those?
Well written and I support your conclusions. It’s why I’m also unhappy at the current system,

We need access to the 258 MH and OH at the vendor.

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
10.26.2018 , 07:32 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
We really need expertise back.
And half of the casual PVPing population gone this way. Yeah no.

As for the new gearing, it's a HOT MESS. Gone is the simplicity (yet another gearing currency, what was the point of streamlining the gear econoy Bioware?), nonsensical crafting mat requirements, lack of Main/Offhands etc.
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LudhaninRolgge's Avatar


LudhaninRolgge
10.26.2018 , 09:37 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
I tend to agree, the only issue I see that would likely lead to big discontent is that if the only way to get BIS PVE gear is NiM 90% of the player base won't be able to get BIS PVE gear which would lead to a ton of pissed off players.

I do think your suggestion is how it should be, but we need to consider the welfare of the game, since 4.0 BIS gear has been accessible not having to do NiM, that's what people have grown use to [wasn't that way before 4.0, it was as you suggest than mostly], and right or wrong we don't want to see a big player loss. Pandora's Box.
Yeah, that's the only downside. But honestly, all those player mostly do heroics and SM ops where you don't need gear so it wouldn't change anything for them.


Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
Spare the rod, spoil the child. Too late now
People always complain, so at least make they complain when fixing the gearing system, they'll get over it eventually ^^

Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
If the proposed system as on the PTS proves to be how things are when it goes live, I will be full 258 BIS geared out 10 minutes after 5.10 goes live.A sizable minority of PVPers are sitting on a ton of UCs [I have 60,000] anyone who does as well will join me. Yeah it seems like a 'good' thing, but it shouldn't be possible. That's way to fast and leaves the player in the exact same position as now.

I do feel BIS gear shouldn't be easy to get, or fast to get. While many don't have that many UCs saved, I tend to think probably 25% may very well be sitting on similar amounts. The might consider putting a limit on how many peices of 258 a player could get per week, 2 per week perhaps. That would extend the gearing up time and not leave the players with a horde of UCs having such an overwhelming advantage compared to the larger segment of the player base right out of the gate and thus still give purpose towards some time spent in order to get full BISed out.
I have like 500 UC now lol. It'll be a long grind for me :/

Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
Regarding the 258 off-hand/main hand, not being obtainable like the rest of the 258, on the one hand I can see how that would piss off a lot of players if the only way to get it was NiM or ridiculous amounts of credits from crafted source [BIS gear should not be craftable at all ever for any reason or anyone], but also give the nod to those players able to do the hardest content in the game. As much as I might see that perspective, 90% of the player won't ever get 258 mainhand and off hand, which quite honestly is that Grand poo bears of all gear as they have the highest increase of stat value out of all gear.
Having 258 crafted being BoE is a stupid idea. You're giving an awful lot of power to people doing NiM which is less than 10% of the game. They'll become incredibly rich. I wish my guild wanted to do GotM NiM x)

Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
To be fair, people who aren't interested in PVE or PVP shouldn't be forced to play a content type they don't like/play. All BIS gear should be fully obtainable solely in each game type. If PVPers can't get offhand/mainhand doing only PVP they will lose their minds. - Which is why PVP gear is the best option for PVPers.

PVE and PVP shouldn't share the same gear. The Raider/PVPer mentality with regard to gearing can't be reconciled.
I really don't think it should be possible to get BiS doing solo stuff. The whole concept of an MMO is to group with people.

Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
And half of the casual PVPing population gone this way. Yeah no.
How would adding expertise back make half the casual pvpers go away ?
Darth Malgus
Odhul'sen - La Croisée
Typhojem - La Croisée Impériale

Pietrastor's Avatar


Pietrastor
10.27.2018 , 04:21 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by LudhaninRolgge View Post
How would adding expertise back make half the casual pvpers go away ?
Because getting entirelly separate set of gear just to be useful/not-burden in PVP is grindy & troublesome. Most of the casual PVPers will just drop, simple. And please, don't respond with "not that hard to get different set of gear and swap it". No, it's not, but it's still annoying (versus nearly the same PVE set as it is right now) and people just won't bother, like they didn't back in the day. PVP population and overall game population is low enough as it is, bringing back expertise will only seclude PVP experience and bring the population down even further
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LeeThorogood's Avatar


LeeThorogood
10.27.2018 , 11:52 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
If the proposed system as on the PTS proves to be how things are when it goes live, I will be full 258 BIS geared out 10 minutes after 5.10 goes live.
Except you wouldn't because most of the gear pieces require Hero standing with the Ossus Reputation, which will take more than 10min to achieve, they also said during the 5.10 livestream that there will be a limit on the number of shards you can buy with UCs each week. They also said that each shard you buy per week increases the price of the next for that week.

kukumburr's Avatar


kukumburr
10.27.2018 , 12:51 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by LeeThorogood View Post
Except you wouldn't because most of the gear pieces require Hero standing with the Ossus Reputation, which will take more than 10min to achieve, they also said during the 5.10 livestream that there will be a limit on the number of shards you can buy with UCs each week. They also said that each shard you buy per week increases the price of the next for that week.
Is there an actual hard cap on UCs per week? I thought it was just going to increase by 500 every time but currently the first one is 500, the second 1000, and the third 1000. I didn't have enough to see what happens if you keep buying at 1000. I thought it'd be steeper every single time but now I don't know.