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PTS Feedback - Additional Stronghold Functionality

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
PTS Feedback - Additional Stronghold Functionality
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

DraonaiMimnov's Avatar

07.27.2018 , 03:20 PM | #11
Can we set our spawn to Overlook as well?
Covenant of the Phoenix

DuchessKristania's Avatar

07.27.2018 , 05:01 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by DraonaiMimnov View Post
Can we set our spawn to Overlook as well?
You can, the console is on the deck.

♥Death Should Never Silence Love♥

BattleAxMaeve's Avatar

07.27.2018 , 05:53 PM | #13
First, thank you so much for all the changes you've made to the Rishi SH. Although i didn't set out a lot of decorations , I was checking out the hooks and deciding how to use the various areas--this is going to be one brilliant SH for RP!

But, what I appreciate more than anything else, is the way the development team took on the comments of the players. I know that an immense effort went into making adjustments and adding the Overlook. It was brilliant seeing the players recognise that they were, indeed, being listened to.

I hope that PTS is used as much s possible in the future. As far as this SH is concerned, it has been far more than a simple bug-tester. More a creative collaboration.

But bug testing can't be ignored. The explosion that unlocks the cave, etc., is wonderfully dramatic. But it was repeated every time I entered the area and the sub-areas within. This would get annoying rather quickly, and I'm sure it's unintended.

On the bright side, after toggling PvP on and off a few times as you advised, it worked perfectly. And I'm very pleased to ride my mounts everywhere without getting dumped onto the ground.

Thank you again! I have such plans brewing for this.

Jerba's Avatar

07.27.2018 , 07:20 PM | #14
I have tested the fourth PTS patch for many hours, and my verdict remains that this patch is not ready to be released. Many issues remain, and most of them have already been reported during one of the previous patches. It is unfortunate that these issues have been ignored. If they are not fixed, I consider the stronghold to be broken on release.

Players should not have to live with these issues; they can be fixed before the patch goes live. SWTOR already has way too many bugs that over time have become "working as intended" or "features". Please do not rush this release, maybe delay it by another week and ensure that the stronghold is perfect.

You already catered to the decorating crowd, and in the process have ignored most of the PvP suggestions. Please put in the time to get this stuff fixed.
I identified 21 bugs/issues, of which 10 should be fixed before the patch is released, and the other 11 can wait till the next patch (e.g. a few weeks afterwards). If you feel they should be prioritized differently - fine. But do not ignore these issues.

Major issues (need to be fixed before release)
  1. The hook layout in the Huttball area is still unusable. The hooks are too far apart to fully block a corridor; players can just walk around them. You need to add many more hooks and move them closer together.
    Also, please remove the ramps leading to the goal line, or add a hook to place a barrier around those ramps. Otherwise, players have zero incentive to use the Arena decoration, they can just stay on the ground.
  2. Right now, you only need a bronze key to interact with PvP/training dummy terminals. For personal SHs this is fine, for guild SHs this MUST be restricted to silver keys and above. As we already wrote in the previous thread, every guild member automatically receives a bronze key and you cannot prevent that. Most guilds have a Friends & Family or Conquest rank with very loose invite requirements. And these players will easily be able to disrupt any guild event. You must restrict these terminals to silver; bronze is not enough.
    For the training dummy terminal, bronze keys might be fine. There are no more bugs where you can put other players into combat etc. But for the PvP stuff (starting/stopping matches), a silver key must be required.
  3. Players who didn't pick a team color are not removed from the area when a Huttball/TDM match starts. Instead, they remain in the area and can attack other players. This opens up potential for grieving, e.g. if players stay inside the area in stealth and you won't even know that they are there.
  4. Spectators cannot see stealthed players. The spectator drone should have a very high stealth detection (60+ meters) so that you can see all players, even if they are in stealth. For PvP tournaments, the commenters need to see when players stealth out and where they are moving to. To ensure there is no potential for stream sniping, only add stealth detection if players have a silver/gold key.
  5. You can easily enter the PvP areas after a match has begun. In the small PvP area, you can get on top of the wall and jump over the red barrier. (video) In the large/Huttball area, you can get on top of the canopy and jump into the PvP area. (video) This will make it easy for players to grief PvP tournaments, and will therefore make it unlikely that players/guilds will publicly list their SHs; instead they will manually invite players. Please add an invisible wall to ensure that there is no potential for griefing, to encourage players to publicly list their stronghold.
  6. Spectators can be hit with AoE abilities. They (and the player who are placed the AoE) are put into combat, which is annoying because spectators should not be able to interfere with PvP.
    But more importantly, they can be knocked back by AoE cleaves as well, i.e. by Assassins/Snipers/Mercs (and their mirrors). (video) If you are spectating an intense PvP fight on the arena decoration, one player will eventually use a knockback and knock the spectators to the bottom, from where they'll need to move back up.
    Please ensure that spectators are ignored by AoE. This was supposed to be fixed with the third PTS patch according to patch notes, but it was never fixed.
  7. The arrival bindpoints are visible both in personal and guild strongholds, but they only work in personal strongholds, and only for the stronghold owner. This will be very confusing for players visiting the SH who click on the terminal yet it has no effect. Please add an error message e.g. "Only the stronghold owner can use this bindpoint.", and ideally don't spawn the terminals in guild SHs at all.
  8. Sprint gets removed if you use the spectate mode and then leave the stronghold. This is super annoying and must be fixed. Full explanation here.
  9. The Huttball continues respawning after the 10th goal, and you can continue killing players in TDM after the 30th kill, even though the scoreboard no longer updates. This will confuse players. Please ensure that if the target score is reached, the match ends and gates open. Otherwise, please create two Huttball modes: An endless Huttball mode where scoreboard goes till 99 and Huttball continues spawning afterwards, and a Match mode where the game ends after the 10th goal
  10. You still cannot reach the spectator console in the small PvP area after a match has started. Please add a second console to the other side (next to the starting area/entrance), to ensure that players can still spectate after a match has begun.

Medium issues (can wait till the next patch)
  1. Some objects are not marked on the map, and without a blue glow, they are hard to notice by new players. Specifically:
    The speeder in the cove expansion, and the two speeders on the sky deck are hard to find. Please add a taxi or elevator symbol to the map on their location.
    The five arrival bind points are hard to find. Please add a Quick Travel symbol to the map on their location (even though they don't work like QT, but it's the most fitting symbol)
  2. You can still fall down from the Huttball spawn area while the forcefields are up. Please ensure that the spawn platforms are flush with the force field and that it is impossible for players to fall down, or even get stuck in there. Ideally, you could also add walls to the side and behind the spawn. But at the least the front must be flush with the force field.
  3. In Team Deathmatch, fall damage counts as a kill. If players accidentally fall off the spawn area, even before the match starts, the team should not be punished. Worse, due to latency or some other issue, you sometimes die twice in a row when falling down. (The same thing also occurs in some of the newer flashpoints) Please ensure that falling down does not give the other team one point (or sometimes even two points).
  4. If using the speeder from the starting area to the cove, parts of the environment are still invisible until you actually enter the cove "room". (video) Due to performance, I know you can't load the whole environment, but please ensure that at least the bridge and the tower are always visible so that this issue is not as noticeable.
  5. If using /stuck or returning to medcenter, you are always put into the starting area. Please ensure that if you have activated an arrival bind point, using /stuck or medcenter will return you to that bindpoint and not always to the starting area.
    If in the Huttball area and you have a team selected, using /stuck should place you into your team's spawn area. Instead, you are put back to the stronghold's entrance.
  6. If you are grouped with a player, have him in target and that player enters spectator mode, he stays in your target and he is visible. This was supposed to be fixed with the third patch according to patch notes but is still bugged. Please ensure that spectators are automatically untargeted and invisible, even if they are in your group.
  7. The decoration "Custom Huttball Stand" appears to be bugged. If you click on it, you now get the error message "Target not visible", no matter which stronghold you place it in. I am pretty sure that it worked in a previous PTS build. Please ensure that this decoration is working again.
  8. In the Rishi SH, NPC nameplates in strongholds are now blue (e.g. for vendors). On the live servers, they are green. Please ensure that these nameplates show up green, to not confuse players into thinking this might be a player or companion.
  9. The dropdown menu to publicly list strongholds is bugged; the icons are shown twice or even more times. (video here) Please ensure that they are only shown once. Also, it appears that you can now change the visbility in the options as well. It is confusing that the visibility can be changed from two places, but at the very least fix the bug where buttons are duplicated.
  10. The new Arena layout can be broken down into a hook layout called "Large/Medium Breakdown". In the German client this is translated as "Große/Mittlere Panne" which makes zero sense. (screenshot) "Panne" refers to a car that broke down, not to "breaking something down into smaller pieces". A better translation would be "Große/Mittlere Aufteilung" or "Große/Mittlere Anordnung". Please fix this so as to not confuse German players.
  11. In nameplates, the class icon colors for consulars/inquisitors are still bugged. With every warzone having cross-faction PvP, you should always be able to figure out your opponent's class by looking at the color. Please ensure that all mirror classes have the same color. (bug report)

Other PvP stuff

I have tested the line-of-sight fixes with other players and am happy to report that they appear to be fixed. Now, when a player hides behind a decoration, the cast is interrupted. It now works identical to how it works behind static objects.
There is still the positioning issue where you have to jump to refresh your position (or stop, or change direction). If you quickly pass behind a pillar in a straight line, the cast is not interrupted. This is consistent with how it works in other content, e.g. warzones or operations bosses.
If you can one day update the engine to fix this, it would be great. From what I understand, this is related to performance; you can't send too many network packets so you only update the position if players jump etc.
But I consider the LoS issue to be fixed for now. PvP players need to L2P that they must immediately jump after taking cover behind a decoration/LoS blocker. Operations players have already learned that by now.
Here is a video recording: You can clearly see that the heal cast goes through if I walk in a straight line. Once I jump or stop behind the pipe, the cast is interrupted.
Edit: After further testing, LoS is not working correctly. See this post for details.

Smugglers/Agents can once again roll and take cover on the arena decoration. Thank you very much for fixing this.
On other decorations, you still receive the error message "Not usable while in air." It would be great if you can one day fix this for all decorations, not just the decoration on the arena hook.
But for now, I don't think this will prevent PvP tournaments. For the most part, players know which decorations are buggy so they will not place those inside the PvP areas. The most important decorations (walls and other obstacles) are fine since you can't get on top of them.

Rocket boost still works in the small PvP area, and it works in the large PvP area if you haven't selected a team.
I suppose that is fine and does not have to be fixed. In the small PvP area, you are in combat most of the time. In the large PvP area, you will always have selected a team.

You must be grouped up in the large PvP area, otherwise you will show up as an enemy even if you have selected the same team color. Ideally, you'd be friendly without having to be in group.
But I assume that this is not technically possible. It is not a major issue to require players to be in group, players just need to be aware of it. (Though it is very annoying that you have to leave the stronghold to convert a party into an ops group.)

Other stronghold stuff

I couldn't figure out how to open the gate to free the crab and get the new achievement. I assume that this is not possible at the moment. Or maybe I am missing something. Hopefully, it will work when the patch is released.

Thanks for adding some starship hooks in the distance (in the ocean and on the far beach). There are plenty of decorations that fit on these hooks thematically, e.g. the giant Iokath Pump Tower. We finally have a place for these decorations. (screenshot) Thank you very much!

The X (Inconspicuous Marker) is still missing. I assume it was buried under the rock that you placed on the small island, and that it was not intentionally removed. If it is obstructed by the rock, please ensure that it is once again visible. If it was removed intentionally, you can disregard this request.
Scoundrel healer. Raid leader. Guild officer @ Tulak Hord

Jerba's Avatar

07.27.2018 , 11:34 PM | #15
We played some 2v2 PvP in both Huttball and TDM, and it was not too enjoyable. (The PvP players that were testing it with me are banned from the forums, so they can't give feedback)

First of all, stuns very often miss. Like on my operative, I'd use my hard stun and the ability goes on cooldown, but the target is not stunned. This happened multiple times, even when the target has no full resolve bar and no buffs that would make it immune to stun.
The other players had the same bug, e.g. the Merc could not put the electro net on an enemy.
Whatever this bug is, you can't do PvP with it.
Edit: This bug is most likely related to the crit/absorb bug, see this thread.

PvP stims/medpacs were very strange. I was able to use them at the start of the huttball match, but after a while, it was greyed out and using it gave the error message "Only useable in certain PvP areas". The items stayed disabled in TDM, and even when we restarted Huttball.
Then we went to the small PvP area, and suddenly I was able to use them again. I'm not sure what the exact bug is, it might be related to opening/closing edit mode but I can't reproduce it.
In any case, this is also a major bug. PvP stims/medpacs should either work all the time or never. You can't have PvP tournaments with bugs like this.
Edit: I have posted repro steps in this post.

I was able to leap/holo to enemy players in the goal line, e.g. players just leaving the spawn zone. In Queshball, this is disabled; you can't leap to players on the goal line and I feel the same should be true in stronghold huttball.

In the center near the Huttball stand, we frequently got the error message "Cannot see target" even though we were right in front of the target and there were no decorations nearby (aside from the Arena decoration high above us). It appears that there is an invisible wall or something there.
Edit: See this post for more details on the LoS bug.

For 2v2, the area was on the one hand way too large, on the other hand the way to the goal line is too short. With a few well placed rolls, you can easily reach the goal line and there is little the enemy team can do. There really need to be way more hooks to block off paths, and there must be more arena decorations, or some fire traps etc. added.
I don't see how you can organize any serious huttball tournaments there. At most, it's fine for some playing around, or for wasting time while waiting for a queue pop.

My suggestion would be to split the orange Arena hook from the layout. In other words, the orange hook is always present. And then you could change the layout of the other hooks (arena, large/medium breakdown, starships) but you can keep the arena decoration.
If players just want to place down starships, they can leave the arena hook empty. But players should be able to use the arena hook regardless of the layout.
And obviously, there need to be way more hooks to fully block off some paths, and even then it is way to easy to get to the goal since you can't put decorations on the arena decoration.
Edit: See this post for details, including screenshots.
Scoundrel healer. Raid leader. Guild officer @ Tulak Hord

Nmyownworld's Avatar

07.28.2018 , 05:14 AM | #16
First, bravo to the team for the added 3 room apartment and the overlook. I am not one of those who wanted a more home-y selection of rooms to decorate. However, I am hella impressed with what you did. Bravo, SWTOR team, for: listening to player feedback; acting on that feedback before the final patch is released; and for doing a fantastic job with the last minute addition of the 3 rooms and the overlook. Kudos!

I tried out the PvP toggle on a character that was previously in the Rishi SH. I had no issue with the toggle working. I accessed the Stronghold window, and turned off PvP in the Stronghold. That first area from the landing zone, and the Sky Deck arena, no longer flagged my character for PvP. However, when leaving that first area with PvP toggled off, my companion was auto-summoned. I had dismissed my character before entering that area; when leaving that area my companion was automatically summoned like before the PvP on/off toggle for the Rishi Stronghold. I tested it again by sending my companion (Akaavi, Influence 50) on a crew skill mission. Akaavi was not auto-summoned while on the crew skill mission upon leaving that first area.

The Cove:
I didn't even go look at it with this last patch, tbh. While I think the removal of the "doors to nowhere" and trash in a previous patch are improvements, I still have zero interest in owning a personal shanty town.

When live, will I unlock it?: Never say never. But, no plan to do so at this time.

The Patrol Carrier:
With a way to disable PvP-flagging, I'm looking at the Patrol Carrier -- specifically, the Sky Deck -- with a different viewpoint. It's no longer an area in the SH that I'd only use two thirds of while dodging a PvP area.

When live, will I unlock it?: The Sky Deck -- maybe. The control room -- eh. The other rooms on the ship -- unlikely because I'm still not interested in a Stronghold starship.

The Beach:
The beach was always my favorite part of the Rishi Stronghold. With the change to the beach sand, I liked it even more. Now, with the Overlook and more hooks, I love it. I like that the Overlook is large enough for a variety of decorations, and that there's a travel point there. It may seem strange that the addition of the Overlook makes such a difference to me (I have no plans at this time to use the 3 room apartment), still it is a subtle but significant change to me.

When live, will I unlock it?: Absolutely.

Additionally: is it possible to either slow down the elevator a bit (not a lot) or put in an elevator button? That elevator is mercilessly fast. No big when trying to ride up to the Overlook, but just a small lag away from a "zero fall damage" death when taking it down to the beach. I saw someone else mention this, and I agree: please put a size appropriate hook over the elevator for the Elevator Sign decoration. I was thrilled to see that decoration, until I realized that there isn't a medium hook over any of the Strongholds elevators.

Again, SWTOR team, job well done with this PTS testing. Thank you so much!

Mubrak's Avatar

07.28.2018 , 05:34 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Jerba View Post
  • Clickable objects are no longer glowing blue. This was fixed with the second patch, but is once again bugged with the third and fourth patch. Please ensure that all objects in strongholds, e.g. speeders and the PvP terminals glow blue. That way, new players immediately know what is interactable. Other players prefer immersion and hate the glow. Maybe you can add a toggle so those players can turn off the glow. But for everyone else, it is better to default to have the glow on, so that it is more intuitive for new players.
Don't do that! Clickable objects permanently glowing without a quest pointing to them is a bug. Do not encourage new players to exploit bugs, and do not confuse them with usable objects in strongholds behaving differently than usable objects in the rest of the game. If you think your players are overwhelmed with all the functions a stronghold has, add a quest that highlights the usable objects as quest objectives.

In the first patch clickable objects didn't glow at all, even if you moved the mouse over them. That was a bug.

In the second patch clickable objects glowed permanently as if they were quest items. This is a bug as well, one that was in the live game all the time since Umbara was released.

Since the third patch, clickable objects in Rishi, and the speeders in Umbara, Tatooine and Yavin behave exactly like all other clickable objects in the game, they glow blue when you hower with the mouse over them. This is the correct behavior.
Tune down reflections to pre 5.5 values!
Move inventory tabs back to the bottom!

xordevoreaux's Avatar

07.28.2018 , 06:03 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Nmyownworld View Post

Additionally: is it possible to either slow down the elevator a bit (not a lot) or put in an elevator button? That elevator is mercilessly fast.
This is the same elevator functionality as the elevator that goes to the VIP section of the fleet. Probably a cut and paste from that with a new surface texture. Have you never traveled to the VIP lounge on fleet?
It's the exact same thing. If you complain about one elevator, complain about the other.

DEVS: DO NOT change this elevator. It works just fine and it does what it needs to do and we don't need to be slowed down getting to where we need to go.
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In English, a leading X on a word is pronounced like a Z. (zorDEVoro).

septru's Avatar

07.28.2018 , 07:48 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Jerba View Post

Spectators cannot see stealthed players. The spectator drone should have a very high stealth detection (60+ meters) so that you can see all players, even if they are in stealth. For PvP tournaments, the commenters need to see when players stealth out and where they are moving to. I guess there is some potential for stream sniping, but that is negligible.
Although I agree with everything else in this post, please do not grant a high stealth detection level to camera droid spectators. In fact, please remove the low stealth detection that it already has. The possibilities of stream sniping will ruin any tournament. 1 player, who is spectating the match on a camera droid, can be in discord with the players playing the match and reveal the location of all stealthers.

I tested the camera droid, and it appears that the camera droid can see players with a low stealth detection (about 3-5 meters). This is enough for a camera droid to follow a player in stealth, see them, and report their location. Please remove it.
-Prum, Satele Shan
"The real endgame is general chat."

Jerba's Avatar

07.28.2018 , 09:43 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Mubrak View Post
Don't do that! Clickable objects permanently glowing without a quest pointing to them is a bug. [...]
Thanks, I was remembering it wrong. Sometime during 4.0/5.0, they changed the blue glow so it is no longer a constant blue but slowly flashing, and I thought that prior to this, objects were permanently blue. I checked some old 1.0 video footage and you are correct.

Therefore, I take back my point, objects do not need to always glow blue, only on mouse hover. Still, I feel that the clickable objects are hard to notice. A good solution would be to mark the objects on the map. Specifically:
  • Please add elevator/taxi symbols to the map for the speeder in the Cove Expansion, and the two speeders on the Sky Deck.
  • Please mark all bind points with symbols on the map. For example, you could use the Quick Travel symbol to mark the bind points. (even if they are not 'real" Quick Travel points)
I've edited my post accordingly.

Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
DEVS: DO NOT change this elevator. It works just fine and it does what it needs to do and we don't need to be slowed down getting to where we need to go.
100% agree. The elevator has the right speed and does not need to be changed. Don't listen to the vocal minority.

Quote: Originally Posted by septru View Post
Although I agree with everything else in this post, please do not grant a high stealth detection level to camera droid spectators. In fact, please remove the low stealth detection that it already has. The possibilities of stream sniping will ruin any tournament. 1 player, who is spectating the match on a camera droid, can be in discord with the players playing the match and reveal the location of all stealthers.

I tested the camera droid, and it appears that the camera droid can see players with a low stealth detection (about 3-5 meters). This is enough for a camera droid to follow a player in stealth, see them, and report their location. Please remove it.
I've watched a couple PvP tournaments on Twitch, and it always felt weird when players stealth out:
  • It messes up the target frames (since the streamer has one player in target and the other in focus target, players will disappear when they stealth out, and the streamer has to retarget them once they reappear).
  • It becomes boring if you can't see where the stealthed player is standing. The non-stealth player will put down AoE randomly, but apart from that nothing happens for 15+ seconds. If you could actually see the stealthed player nearly evading AoE, or trying to get in to attack, it adds suspense and the fight becomes much more interesting.
  • And of course, a random stealthed player can easily hide in the PvP area without anyone knowing. He could interfere in a tournament by mezzing a player and without going through combat logs, it would be impossible for the SH owner to know which character to kick from the stronghold.

Therefore, I do feel that the spectators must see stealthed players. I do get your point about stream-sniping and have a compromise: Only add stealth detection if the player has a silver/gold key.

Right now, any player can spectate but you need a key to start/stop PvP matches. (Right now, a bronze key is required but like I wrote above, this must be changed to silver key or above)
I like that everyone can spectate matches, not just the organizers. And once the AoEs are fixed so they don't affect spectators, spectators won't be able to interfere in matches, so there's no need to restrict spectator mode. Random players should not be able to see stealthed players, but the organisers/streamers should see them for better commenting, and so no stealther can hide in the PvP area and grief the tournament.
Scoundrel healer. Raid leader. Guild officer @ Tulak Hord