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Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.18.2019 , 08:31 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
I think the much bigger point is that if one gender is going to get ridiculously impractical sexualized clothing, then the other should have the same opportunity to wear the same ridiculously impractical sexualized clothing. Personally, I don't care how stupid other people's female characters and companions look as long as I have the same opportunity to dress my male characters and companions the same way.

What I would like to see is the high heel aficionados documenting high heels in the Star Wars universe. Don't just ask for them. Show why they belong! It's a vast universe with an impressive variety of clothing from massive, ornate formal wear to barely there dancer band aids. I'd be more in favor of adding high heels if they can be documented. I can't think of any in-universe examples at the moment.
Oh, I'm completely on board with being fair in that way. I see no reason for such clothing to be gender-restricted if it's going to be in there. Generally speaking, I'd say that gender-restricting clothing like that is forcing RL dogmas into the game, same as strict avoidance of sexualized clothing. Of course if a game wants to avoid sexualized clothing for some story/world reason, that's their artistic prerogative, but if it is included (and SW certainly has its sexualized elements... dancers, etc.) then it should be available for male and female.
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
07.18.2019 , 11:22 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
The subtext here always seems to be... "I don't want things that are sexualized in some way," with "impracticality" being given as an excuse.

I mean, the impracticality argument never comes up when we're talking about things like wearing gigantic flimsy robes to take on flamethrowers and blaster fire. But somebody asks for heels (which are impractical to fight in, I'm not arguing that) and suddenly we remember that there are RL rules that must be followed in a space wizards video game. I just wish people would say what they mean instead of hiding behind arguments of convenience. Nothing personal to you, I've just seen this argument trotted out so many times over the years in different games - every time in response to requests for clothing that could be seen as sexualized - and it's a rather tiresome framing.
I didn't write anything of the sort, but if that's how you choose to take it, that's your prerogative, I suppose. I've never seen a character anywhere in Star Wars wearing heels into combat, whereas those robes actually are worn quite extensively.

I said exactly what I mean: they need parity. I'm personally tired of the older armor drops that are totally covered for men, but a skimpy midriff top for women. Or the fact that they've trotted out something like seven different slave (excuse me, "dancer") costumes, but only for women. If they're going to put something like heels in the game it needs to be for everyone, not just one gender.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.18.2019 , 11:59 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I didn't write anything of the sort, but if that's how you choose to take it, that's your prerogative, I suppose. I've never seen a character anywhere in Star Wars wearing heels into combat, whereas those robes actually are worn quite extensively.

I said exactly what I mean: they need parity. I'm personally tired of the older armor drops that are totally covered for men, but a skimpy midriff top for women. Or the fact that they've trotted out something like seven different slave (excuse me, "dancer") costumes, but only for women. If they're going to put something like heels in the game it needs to be for everyone, not just one gender.
So your comment on "never seen in Star Wars combat" piqued my curiosity and I thought of Darth Talon. It looks there this is some kind of official-looking drawing where she's wearing what appears to be a kind of heeled boot or shoe.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130225130034

It can be found on the wookieepedia for her: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Talon

This seems to be supported by this fan site I came across saying the following about Darth Talon cosplay:

http://twilekparadise.com/darth-talon-gloves-and-boots/

Quote:
NEVER high heels if you want the legion501st approval.
Darth Talon boots are low heels (1 2 cm) or NO heels (flat boots).
Its hard (very hard) to find LONG boots with flat heel. Cutting off the heel is not good idea, the tip of the shoe will move away from ground.
So not high heels, but a kind of heeled boots. Not that far off. Unless Darth Talon is legends and somehow doesn't count for the argument, but that would nullify the validity of a lot of types of armor.

Anyway, for the record, I don't care much whether high heels are in the game. The mention of it in this thread is the first it ever occurred to me. I just take issue with strange-looking arguments against skimpy clothing.

Edit: Also, it occurs to me if they ever did consider a heel look in some way, a Darth Talon armor set would probably be a good way to do it. They could even do a variation on the boots like the varied top on the swimwear set. One version of boots that are heeled and one that's flat.
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
07.19.2019 , 12:36 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
So not high heels, but a kind of heeled boots. Not that far off. Unless Darth Talon is legends and somehow doesn't count for the argument, but that would nullify the validity of a lot of types of armor.

Anyway, for the record, I don't care much whether high heels are in the game. The mention of it in this thread is the first it ever occurred to me. I just take issue with strange-looking arguments against skimpy clothing.

Edit: Also, it occurs to me if they ever did consider a heel look in some way, a Darth Talon armor set would probably be a good way to do it. They could even do a variation on the boots like the varied top on the swimwear set. One version of boots that are heeled and one that's flat.
Most boots technically have a heel, as do combat boots and shoes like Doc Martens. So do some of the boots found in the game. I don't think that counts as a "high heel" especially since they are typically balanced for natural walking and standing, and not narrow or at unnatural angles like high heels.

I'd say that the 501st insistence that high heels are not allowed for the character would say it all.

I personally don't care for the skimpy armor, and wish the game would allow me to hide other people's companions so I didn't have to look at it, but again, my comment was on parity, not how you chose to interpret it.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.19.2019 , 01:16 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Most boots technically have a heel, as do combat boots and shoes like Doc Martens. So do some of the boots found in the game. I don't think that counts as a "high heel" especially since they are typically balanced for natural walking and standing, and not narrow or at unnatural angles like high heels.

I'd say that the 501st insistence that high heels are not allowed for the character would say it all.

I personally don't care for the skimpy armor, and wish the game would allow me to hide other people's companions so I didn't have to look at it, but again, my comment was on parity, not how you chose to interpret it.
So I was right in my interpretation of how you feel about skimpy armor, but my interpretation was wrong because you had a comment in there about parity. Alright, champ.
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Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.19.2019 , 01:52 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Most boots technically have a heel, as do combat boots and shoes like Doc Martens. So do some of the boots found in the game. I don't think that counts as a "high heel" especially since they are typically balanced for natural walking and standing, and not narrow or at unnatural angles like high heels.
Do they? Where in-game? A heel something like this?

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....IL._UY395_.jpg

Cause that's more or less what it looks like in the Darth Talon image and it comes up in google search for "low heeled boot" (more or less the terminology used on that fan site). I've seen a huge amount of outfits in this game and never seen anything like that, but maybe I missed it.
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
07.19.2019 , 01:53 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
So I was right in my interpretation of how you feel about skimpy armor, but my interpretation was wrong because you had a comment in there about parity. Alright, champ.
No, your interpretation was wrong because I didn't say a word about skimpy armor or sexualization. I said I wanted parity and that the shoes were impractical and mutilated people's feet. They are, and as evidenced by your own research they're not found in Star Wars.

My own feelings about skimpy armor do not invalidate any of that, nor do they change that my original comment was not about that. Nor do I have to justify myself or my comments to you. Newsflash, people are allowed not to like skimpy armor. Whatever you're trying to start here, I'm not going to continue it .

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
07.19.2019 , 02:36 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
No, your interpretation was wrong because I didn't say a word about skimpy armor or sexualization. I said I wanted parity and that the shoes were impractical and mutilated people's feet. They are, and as evidenced by your own research they're not found in Star Wars.

My own feelings about skimpy armor do not invalidate any of that, nor do they change that my original comment was not about that. Nor do I have to justify myself or my comments to you. Newsflash, people are allowed not to like skimpy armor. Go fight with someone else, because whatever you're trying to start here, I'm not going to continue it .
This isn't a fight, as far as I'm concerned. I told you originally that it isn't personal (it still isn't, in case you're wondering) and I stated that I find it tiresome when the practicality of clothing is brought up as a reason for being against skimpy armor. Partly it's tiresome because the argument has more holes than a chunk of swiss cheese, but at a certain point, when you take the obvious holes into account, you start wondering if it's really about practicality or if it's about something else. You start wondering why someone would be that passionate about a specific type of clothing being impractical, when the same comments are never (or at least, so rare as to be difficult to remember) brought up for clothing that covers skin and is impractical.

I mean, the nobody wears it in battle argument doesn't hold either, since this game has dancer wear that can be worn in battle. And nobody in Star Wars wears that in battle (unless you count Leia freeing herself from Jabba, but that was the result of an extremely specific story scenario). I just looked into Darth Talon out of curiosity. The argument is still bunk, sorry.

As I stated... "I just wish people would say what they mean instead of hiding behind arguments of convenience." Maybe not my most diplomatic wording ever, but it certainly wasn't a request for people to justify themselves. It just seems like if someone is against skimpy armor, it's not a big deal to come out and say it, and leave it at that. I don't see why it has to be part of an argument about realism, or some thing about people in the story having worn it in battle in the lore or something. I don't ask for people who are into skimpy armor to justify their position either. I'm sometimes into skimpy armor myself and sometimes not, and I don't really try to justify it to myself one way or another.

But when people start making arguments for why something "shouldn't be" that is a matter of preference, well then I think those arguments made are fair game for discussion. In fact, my original comment got some interesting responses from other people and I replied to them. It was a pretty interesting little conversation. I'm not sure in what way I upset you though. I guess singling you out was the wrong call there. I tried to make a point of saying it isn't personal for exactly that reason.

If I'm coming across strongly at all on this subject, understand that I grew up in part dealing with what basically amounted to a religious cult (I say basically cause it wasn't as culty as some cults), a leader of whom thought women should never wear pants and only wear skirts. So when I see people having impassioned ire about skin showing, it reminds me of that kind of mindset and it's hard not to wonder about peoples' motivations and upbringing. Maybe there are some people for whom it really is just about nothing other than realism and I can accept that, but I stated it was tiresome because it really genuinely is for me. I've played multiple MMOs over the years and the arguments relating to armor/clothing are always most passionate when it comes to skin showing, and then people start talking about how vulnerable it is in combat.

I mean, heck, what about tribal warriors? Since when is war only ever waged by people wearing heavy armor? What notions of realism is this stuff even based on, ya know? Jedi themselves are based on people fighting with swords, despite it being an advanced technology world. Do you see why the argument seems odd to me?
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owca_bwooy
07.19.2019 , 09:41 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by DanielSteed View Post
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Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
07.19.2019 , 07:43 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Rolodome View Post
So your comment on "never seen in Star Wars combat" piqued my curiosity and I thought of Darth Talon. It looks there this is some kind of official-looking drawing where she's wearing what appears to be a kind of heeled boot or shoe.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130225130034

It can be found on the wookieepedia for her: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Darth_Talon

This seems to be supported by this fan site I came across saying the following about Darth Talon cosplay:

http://twilekparadise.com/darth-talon-gloves-and-boots/



So not high heels, but a kind of heeled boots. Not that far off. Unless Darth Talon is legends and somehow doesn't count for the argument, but that would nullify the validity of a lot of types of armor.

Anyway, for the record, I don't care much whether high heels are in the game. The mention of it in this thread is the first it ever occurred to me. I just take issue with strange-looking arguments against skimpy clothing.

Edit: Also, it occurs to me if they ever did consider a heel look in some way, a Darth Talon armor set would probably be a good way to do it. They could even do a variation on the boots like the varied top on the swimwear set. One version of boots that are heeled and one that's flat.
Darth Talon is typically shown wearing wide, low heeled boots. Some illustrations I've seen show wide, mid heeled boots. (I find it hard to sort out which Googled images of Talon are canon and which are better fan art.) That is not what people typically refer to when they talk about high heels. While her boots are fun, they aren't a good reference for high heels in canon.