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Return Veteran's Edge stacks to NIM Raids

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Return Veteran's Edge stacks to NIM Raids

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
02.16.2020 , 08:19 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by dready_tv View Post
248 was overgeared even if you don't want to believe that regardless of certain class changes &.people also cleared things without abusing certain bugs etc so just because a few things were bugged doesn't mean the bugs were required to clear the operations with ease.
Calling 258 slightly overgeared for Nim? You have to be trolling, wiping in old nims with that kind of gear was considered a massive embarrassment 258 gear more or less resemble actually using a nightmare crystal & so did 30 Veteran Edge Stacks.

Even if you actually claim to have cleared it in X.0 & not to be rude but if you see the operations as you do then you have a lot to work on to improve, specially if u have been playing for that long, the operations have not been challenging since 242 gear even with all the class changes.

People are still pugging Old Nims without 30 stacks & clearing it with timed runs without problems?
There were even a few runs yday with full clears in a pug grp & there is streams on twitch to show it.
A few teams have also already been clearing old nims without stacks & that is only a few days after they were removed? Same goes for Gods Nim with no stacks, it have also already been cleared.

These changes just show that again nim is not for everyone, nim have been a massive joke for years & now when it finally becomes more challenging people start to cry extremely loudly about it.

Thanks Bioware for actually making Nightmare Operations for what they are supposed to be, no more faceroll.
It's always interesting to read things like this, after watching SM ops groups requiring NiM gear. What was the minimum gear score you're group allowed? Was it the max gear possible, in every iteration, or were you downgrading to run it? My bet: Max level of gear possible, or they weren't welcome, so you could come post on the forums about how "easy" it was in that max gear. Don't get me wrong, if you have the max gear possible, you should definitely be using it, but it's more than a bit hypocritical to then come back and say "well, you're already over geared" when you wouldn't have dreamed of running in anything but max gear.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Khaleijo's Avatar


Khaleijo
02.16.2020 , 09:59 AM | #22
Apart from the real issue being new operations coming very slow in this game, this change just was made the wrong way.

All these NIMs that lost their stacks now are years old content. It was re-scaled again and again, new class abilities screwed them up quite a lot, forced changes that at times broke the bosses in some other way then until they were fixed, for potentially the next batch of new skills or general changes to the game messed the next thing up (just look at Master Blaster over its iterations).
While personally I couldn't care less for stacks or no stacks there, having lost what medium interest I had in NIM a while ago, I find it funny to read about 'proper challenges' and 'getting gud', when a lot of those calling themselves NIMraiders, are those that know the most about how to avoid having to play mechanics by stacking certain (FOTM)classes and using all the abilities (reflects, stealth out and what else not) and glitches that trivialize the encounters compared to their initial release. Just think of Asation 2. boss, who really does play without cheesing doom there these days and still deals with the red puddles in the last part of the encounter as was intended at release?
So while I do have respect for those going into Gods and Dxun, figuring out their way through there on their own, showing what great players they are, seriously, someone knowing all ins and outs of the old NIMs and doing them for years saying, great that an almost a decade old operation finally is a challenge again is ridiculous.

Was it too easy with the stacks, I don't know but generally agree that there should have been an adjustment if it was. But the way this huge change was made now and where the idea is rumored to come from is total crap.

First of all it should have been communicated openly beforehand combined with mapping out a clear vision of how the difficulty over the different modes/operations/bosses should increase and how much influence the class setup or all those cheesing abilities should really have there. Then all modes should have been brought in line according to that vision. (And kept in line with future updates too.)
Because as it is, there were often too many inconsistencies in difficulty even in one and the same operation that at times changed with this or that update.
Since the changes from 4.0 there was a pretty big gap from the too easy SM that got all important mechanics taken out to any HC outside EV and KP. SM not really preparing for it at all. From my experience even with stacks now a lot of SM groups are not able to transition into HC, because it still doesn't prepare for what is needed there. Gear/stacks never really were the problem in the first place but to learn how to deal with mechanics and SM no longer teaches that at all, even less with over-gearing or stacks. It used to be, non deadly but there in SM, punishing in HC and really punishing + combined with additional stuff in NIM.
At the same time HC with stacks, with the exception of the few really mechanic heavy bosses and Gods/Dxun, is now also rather easy for those that were the target audience of it before and the capped stats causing people stuffing everything in alacrity and crit does the rest for screwing up the dps numbers. With stacks they had NIM to look forward next, without they have nothing now because the gap between stacks in HC and no stacks in NIM now is much bigger than SM to HC was until 6.0 or old HC to NIM was at any time.

So why is everything else of the old stuff made easier and easier but years old NIM suddenly out of the blue is made harder? That's simply not healthy for the raiding population as a whole.
Make NIM more challenging than with 30stack if you want and must, but make sure there is a steady way of progression through all the various modes and operations, not a brick wall out of nowhere.
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sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
02.16.2020 , 12:30 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by dready_tv View Post
People are still pugging Old Nims without 30 stacks & clearing it with timed runs without problems?
There were even a few runs yday with full clears in a pug grp & there is streams on twitch to show it.
A few teams have also already been clearing old nims without stacks & that is only a few days after they were removed? Same goes for Gods Nim with no stacks, it have also already been cleared.
Do you have any links for that?

I would love to watch them, because I think that would add a lot to the discussion.
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JattaGin's Avatar


JattaGin
02.16.2020 , 12:40 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
I would rather say that these people ran the new ops just a few times until they beaten it and then felt no reason to play it again and went back to playing old stuff.
And why would that be? Why run old content instead of new? Is it because the new OPs aren't as much fun? Or is it that it is easier to do the things you already did a thousand times? (And then complain that it is too easy?)

Quote: Originally Posted by theJudeAbides View Post
Who asked for this, anyways? Who was demanding DPS, Heals, and Tank health be nerfed for the hardest content in the game? I haven't seen anyone asking for this.
You probably haven't seen anyone asking, because it happened in a closed, secret PTS phase. Who was invited to that? Who knows. Probably Failure and similar 1337 folks.
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robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
02.16.2020 , 01:29 PM | #25
As an aside to something posted above, it never ceases to amaze me how we, as gamers, spend hours getting all the best gear, and maximizing our stats in order to make the game easier, and then how some of us, once they're successful at it, complain that it's too easy. That was the whole point of gearing up, wasn't it, to trivialize the content? It's not a unique situation here either, I'd imagine that if one were to hit x game's forums, where x is a number, the vast majority of games older than 3 or 4 years will have similar thought processes. I know I've seen it repeatedly over the years. I'm not sure what the problem is, let alone a solution, I mean, for all intents and purposes, once we've geared up enough that the game's not hard, we won, right?
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

SabreDD's Avatar


SabreDD
02.16.2020 , 03:03 PM | #26
I am just giving my vote to this thread. Return VE stacks to NiM raids, please, and stop sneaking changes upon us. We are the raiding community in this game and deserve being able to give feedback before such changes are implemented.

dready_tv's Avatar


dready_tv
02.16.2020 , 04:26 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
Do you have any links for that?

I would love to watch them, because I think that would add a lot to the discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNzdcgkvVtY
Here is one of the kill video of Izax Nim without stacks, there is even more videos on the other bosses there as well.

Also there is more than this team that have cleared it & ALL old nims with the stack removal.
So yes it is way more than possible to do it without VE Stacks. There is also videos out on old nims as well with no stacks.
These clears(Except Gods cuz those stacks was removed way before the rest) happened a few days after they were removed & yet some people decide to go on massive cry mode now when you cannot get easy kills anymore, you don't even give it any time, people just want free loot, titles & mounts for absolutely no effort what so ever, such a joke.

It have been proven over & over already just within a few days of the VE change that you can clear it all if you have the potential to do so.
Here is also a pug group clearing SNV Timed with no stacks.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/552477104
There are many more out there from other operations being cleared with no VE stacks so look around and learn.

The only people who actually are complaining about the stack removal are those who got everything for free before with little or no effort at all & when you all of a sudden start to face a challenge & arent good enough for it people decide enter a full babyrage mode.

I've kill several bosses in gods & old nims with no stacks included so stop whining and just practice more.

Stacks need to remain gone for challenge & difficulty to ensure that Nightmare STAYS Nightmare and not becomes another memeshow like it have been before where people who haven't really been ready for that kind of content can just step in and yolo it.

AllisonLightning's Avatar


AllisonLightning
02.17.2020 , 01:10 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Let me guess, you're one of those group ads with "have achievement, and NiM gear for SM", right? I'd almost bet I quit raiding here before some of these people even started, maybe even before they started the game, but those were always fun to watch. Taking bets on whether they were on the forums five minutes after they finished those ops complaining the game was too easy.
No one in this thread debating over this would mandate gear or even a level 75 for SM content. The only people with those requirements are SM players.
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robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
02.17.2020 , 08:01 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonLightning View Post
No one in this thread debating over this would mandate gear or even a level 75 for SM content. The only people with those requirements are SM players.
You **** your friends, and I'll **** mine, but let's not **** each other, because we both know better than that. If they feel like it's going to impede their completion, that player in question isn't in. This isn't my first rodeo, and the raiding scene is the same across the industry. In fact, there are guilds that do nothing else, and they likely have "branches" here too.

To be frank, these stacks weren't even a thing when I quit raiding. They wouldn't be a thing for a couple of years, and yet, I have my completions, at least the ones I wanted to care about. The new stuff is too flashy for me to play, due to my migraines, the same thing happened to me in Tera, the endgame was too flashy, so I had to bail out. Keep 'em, don't, whatever. I'm just amazed at the hypocrisy inherent in "you must be this tall to ride this ride, unless it's going to make it easier for you than it was for me", which is what this whole railing against this is, from where I'm sitting.

This content is years beyond relevant, and years beyond required for gearing, so why else would anyone feel the need to "make it harder" for someone else? Stacks or no is not going to affect those of us that have done this in the past to the point of being able to run most of it in our sleep. We've seen the video links provided in this thread. So the only thing it does is make it easier for someone else to maybe get there, and we can't have that, right?
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Brisselio's Avatar


Brisselio
02.17.2020 , 08:51 AM | #30
Leave the stacks in for all older content. Why people tout off about completing ops that have been completed years ago on NiM is ridiculous, unless you did it when it was current content what difference does it make if someone gets the stacks or not? Current content should not have the stacks obviously, but 5+ year old ops? Gimme a break and let people enjoy the operations and progress through them. Server first and world first for these have long since been completed you aren't going to gain anything from more groups being able to complete it.

Coming from someone who raided TfB on NiM when it was released and remembers what it was like way back when, let people enjoy it. It sure isn't as challenging now as it was back then. So take the elitist bs out and let people enjoy the amazing operations this game has to offer.