So, other than a couple of black hole pieces (which may or may not have desirable stats), it looks like the SM version of TFB is a complete waste of time for people decked in campaign/BH, even Rakata -- except, of course, to learn the basic strategies to take into HM.

 

My guild has been farming Denova HM for quite some time. We cherry-picked a group of 8 decked out min/maxers for our SM TFB run on Wednesday. We got through everything except for the final boss, but that was because one of our healers had to drop out for the night. Although this operation's difficulty is supposed to be tuned for groups in Columi level gear, I would be interested to see if your average Columi-geared (no BH mods or Rakata) group can actually clear it without a ton of wipes. Even when all mechanics are executed correctly, I've noticed that there is sometimes quite a bit of raid-wide damage going on, and your healers would have to be godly to pull the numbers required to keep the ops group up while wearing just a Columi set. Not to mention your tanks are taking more damage because of their crappy gear too. I don't think we came close to hitting any enrage timers, so I'm not sure how generous enrage is for Columi DPS.

 

And all for a reward of... some Rakata pieces? A couple of BH pieces which MIGHT have good stats? Not even a few measly Black Hole Comms? Why is this operation dropping gear that has been available since the beginning of the game? Where is the gear progression one would expect going from HM Denova to SM TFB? People in Columi gear are better off running HM EV/KP, the FIRST operations to hit the game, to get the Rakata gear they need with a lot fewer wipes and hassle. Then once they're decked in Rakata from those, the only reason they'd need to run SM TFB is to form baseline strats and become familiar with the operation -- Oh, and to "see the sights." So only one SM run is necessary, maybe 2 for kicks, right? The loot for SM needs to be upped dramatically considering the difficulty level, which seems to be out-of-reach for the casual players it is designed for.

 

Don't get me wrong though. I really love this new operation. It actually has some very fun and interesting mechanics that involve more than just tank-swapping, and very little to no melee hate (that we've seen) which is a welcome change! The trash mobs drop an appropriate amount of credits. The planet design is really cool. Lots of sights to see here, but I don't think most casual players will get to see them. The loot in SM is a severe disappointment; please considering fixing it by adding a healthy amount of Black Hole Comms to make it worth doing.

 

Just my 2 credits or what-have-you.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Lunesca

We're a 16 EC HM guild, and did a few bosses on SM last night for fun. I enjoyed it, but without at the very least, BH comms, it won't last long. At least when we gear up noobs in EC 16 SM I know I'll get a handful of BH coms on my main.

They took BH comms out of SM EC from what I read. SM=casual and HM=progression.

I also read that they took out the BH comms from NiM KP. And as far as I can tell the weekly Terror reward (8 comms?) didn't make SM worth it in any way. We 7-manned SM Terror last night while waiting for our 2nd tank to finish patching for the HM run.

 

I enjoyed the raid last night because it was new and we picked up on mechanics that i think would have been missed in the HM chaos. But I agree with this post, I do not see this raid as having any replay-ability. In one sense, I find it nice that I will have one less thing to worry about each week, but on the other hand... where do I reasonably get 350 BH comms now?

 

I haven't done EC HM yet this week but before 1.4 we got 2 BH comms from bosses and 4 from the chests (20 total) so that seems to be the same post 1.4 (5 per boss = 20). I don't understand why there is an overall net loss in easily obtainable BH comms while there is a drastic increase in need (350 BH for an implant?). If the idea was to make the grind longer and harder so that we stay subscribed longer, I honestly do not think this will do the trick. Pre 1.4 BH comms were readily available that I played enough to farm them and RE for mats/schematics. Now I don't see a need.

 

If this is the case, I am slowly shifting from a subscription member in the winter to F2P while hoping my cartel coins can buy me the HM Ops.

So, other than a couple of black hole pieces (which may or may not have desirable stats), it looks like the SM version of TFB is a complete waste of time for people decked in campaign/BH, even Rakata -- except, of course, to learn the basic strategies to take into HM.

 

If your full campaign/bh or rakata you should be running HM, so learning the strategies seems like it should be the primary reward for running SM.

If your full campaign/bh or rakata you should be running HM, so learning the strategies seems like it should be the primary reward for running SM.

 

QFT - Gear doesn't sound bad consider it is SM. The reward for overgeared people doing it, beyond the story, is getting to see some of the mechanics in a more relaxed forgiving way. If the instance is geared for columi it shouldn't give much of anything 2 levels above. So Rakata and couple BH pieces are fine.

 

I wish BH comms were in there too, but we have been given them like candy for months, it had to end sometimes. I know of one person that is almost fully BH and the only Ops he has been on was a SM EV once. Of course that will not change because of this, but the price increase for BH gear means it will take longer. Personally I would have done away with the BH weekly and SM and left the BH Comms in NIM. KP Still easy to get, but makes people work a little to get them.

Where you go wrong is in assuming that you're supposed to progress from HM Denova to SM TfB.

 

You're supposed to progress from HM Denova to HM TfB.

 

SM is for people who mainly want to see the place and experience the story, hence the name Story Mode.

 

I can understand your way of thinking, since the last tier was like that. You really DID progress from KP/EV NMM to SM Denova, which got a lot of people confused.

 

I think the new system where story mode is actually story mode is better, now we just need an actual Nightmare Mode.

I really enjoyed the Op, especially the last fight. But I agree the gear is a bit substandard, or at least give us some BH comms!

 

The only piece I needed was the Rakata headpiece, but the group leader switched to master loot 3/4 of the way through and give it to his guildmate without a /roll who had a Blackhole headpiece already, that guy then turns around and offers it to me for 200k since these items are now 'tradable'.... (I was in Columi)

 

So basically, give us more comms or loot and MAKE A VOTE or something when the leader changes the loot rules! (or only allow loot changes at START of game)

Edited September 28, 2012 by KEKHAN

*** KEKHAN did that happen in Tomb of Freedon Nadd, if so, which guild - people?

Nah, Prophecy of the Five server. We're not allowed to name and shame here unfortunately

you want comms and gear, you go do HM. If you can't, go back to EC HM until you can.

you want the story, do SM.

My issue is now the big gap in difficulty between the story modes and the hardmodes.

 

Before, you had EV and KP which were both extremely forgiving raids and had nice difficulty progression but were pretty faceroll once you reached rakata level gear.

 

From there, you progressed on to EC Story which forced everyone in the raid to become better at executing mechanics and better at playing their class due to enrage timers / damage taken etc. It was a natural learning curve which led on to EC HM which required even better co-ordination and class skill.

 

however, now that they've nerfed EC SM and TFB SM also appears to be too easy, I can't see how people will progress from the faceroll easy story modes on to the much more difficult hardmodes. The top raiders will be fine (my guild also had EC HM on farm) but the average and casual raiders simply dont stand a chance. The same happened during the Mirkwood expansion of LOTRO and the consequence was many guilds disbanding because the average and casual raiders couldn't make the massive leap in difficulty between raids so they just stopped raiding.

 

In short, there needs to be a smooth difficulty curve in raiding. If there isn't and the raids become too difficult too quickly then all you will do is segregate the community and turn raiding in to an exclusive / elite activity. That is not the way to go and can never work in this game.

Nah, Prophecy of the Five server. We're not allowed to name and shame here unfortunately

 

How about giving us a fair warning?

 

I'd appreciate if you posted the guild so I never make mistake of pugging with them and having my time wasted.

Edited September 28, 2012 by AshlaBoga

however, now that they've nerfed EC SM and TFB SM also appears to be too easy, I can't see how people will progress from the faceroll easy story modes on to the much more difficult hardmodes. The top raiders will be fine (my guild also had EC HM on farm) but the average and casual raiders simply dont stand a chance.

As someone else has said, I think the confusion stems from the change in tack, before, you progressed from KP/EV SM to KP/EV HM to EC SM to EC HM, now with the new raid "hardcore" raiders should be progressing from EC HM to TFB HM, not TFB SM.

 

I don't think it's necessarily bad that casual raiders have difficulty with HM Ops given the requirements of knowing your class very well, raid awareness, co-ordination & being able to execute the required mechanics. If Bioware were consistent with their Ops difficulties (possibly by going back & "re-tuning" EV/KP), people would know what to expect & wouldn't react like the OP (though I understand why he did).

Heaven forbid someone play a game just for fun.

 

Ha ha, had to say it. Anyways, of course I'd like it to be a bit more difficult, (but still PUGable) maybe one piece of black hole per boss? My PUG (with teamspeak, good gear, etc.) managed to get to the puzzle before it got to late at night to go on.

Overall, the operation is fun and difficult. I approve.

 

Side comment: anyone know the loot of the final boss?

The gear may not be that great for SM but man the cash is nice. Just might think about farming the trash instead of dailies. I thought the SM version was nice bc you get to see the mechanics first hand and get to know a little first person look before you attempt hardmode. Our guild one shot the first three bosses so taking undergeared people here for some Rakata runs will be nice. I would like to say thank you BW for the new content. Lets keep pumping out new stuff like this so people keep playing.

Where you go wrong is in assuming that you're supposed to progress from HM Denova to SM TfB.

 

You're supposed to progress from HM Denova to HM TfB.

 

SM is for people who mainly want to see the place and experience the story, hence the name Story Mode.

 

I can understand your way of thinking, since the last tier was like that. You really DID progress from KP/EV NMM to SM Denova, which got a lot of people confused.

 

I think the new system where story mode is actually story mode is better, now we just need an actual Nightmare Mode.

 

Yes ur right, it is not HM EC --> SM TFB but there is no progression from SM EC --> SM TFB. And now there are no BH comms either!

I think the real problem is that doing EC HM in Rakata is hard. Is it doable yes, but by not having a little bit of the BH gear it will be hard for many guilds to progress from TFB SM to EC HM.

 

We did it in Rakata, but we had optimized our Rakata stats which I think many of the less hardcore guilds think about doing. Now that's fine, it is hard mode so should be somewhat difficult, but it does cause frustration and make some of the content inaccessible.

 

A token or even reduced amount of BHs would help with the progression since as it stands now you're better off running EV SM through group finder than TFB SM.

the only piece I needed was the Rakata headpiece, but the group leader switched to master loot 3/4 of the way through and give it to his guildmate without a /roll who had a Blackhole headpiece already, that guy then turns around and offers it to me for 200k since these items are now 'tradable'.... (I was in Columi))

Stuff like this make me so glad I roll with the groups I do. Other night in a pretty much thrown together group for HM EC. Offhand dropped on the tanks. I picked up my comms and was headed for the next section. We are doing Suicide Kings and my name was at the bottom of the list. Everyone passed, without me saying a word until it got to me because they knew that was the only thing I needed. Only 3 or 4 were from my guild and a few this was there first time in HM EC, so I know they needed the gear.

 

I am a healer, so perhaps they just wanted to keep me happy and healing, but I am very thankful for falling in with the group I did.

I feel there is some concern gearwise. SM EC dropped Rakata AND BH comms so you could still "gear up" for HM EC, and essentially chew through the content on both difficulties for people who aren't the "hardcore" raiders who had it cleared on 16 man HM soon after release.

 

If next SM op isn't tuned for people in rakata and dropping campaign then either story mode ops are going to become completely trivial for everyone or undoable for any casuals.

 

Being able to gear up in BiS gear just from SM EC for certain classes was kinda lame, even when I benefited from it, but feeling like there's no reason at all to do SM TFB is a little disheartening. Just some comms wouldn't be unappreciated.

I really enjoyed the Op, especially the last fight. But I agree the gear is a bit substandard, or at least give us some BH comms!

 

The only piece I needed was the Rakata headpiece, but the group leader switched to master loot 3/4 of the way through and give it to his guildmate without a /roll who had a Blackhole headpiece already, that guy then turns around and offers it to me for 200k since these items are now 'tradable'.... (I was in Columi)

 

So basically, give us more comms or loot and MAKE A VOTE or something when the leader changes the loot rules! (or only allow loot changes at START of game)

 

If a person done that i would never raid with them again what a jerk thing to do

It drops lots of credits and im rubbish at credit management so thats nice would pay for the repairs on hm attempts xD