Any chance of getting some proper interactive tutorials for different things.

Especially for pvp matches that have mechanics like Hutt ball.

People do not understand they need to pass, especially now that you explode after 45 secs of holding it.

Even worse, they don’t know the mechanic on how to pass the ball

They don’t understand it’s not death match and you need to score goals to win.

They don’t know you can’t pass to stunned people.

They don’t know you actually need the ball

It’s all well and good to have this voice over about not kicking the ball , but it doesn’t tell you anything on how to play the WZ.

In Star Figher, at least there is a hands on tutorial for your first time so you at least know some basics. This could be a similar thing added to Hutt Ball. You could have 2 pve guys on your team and 3 on the other, just to demonstrate and teach you how to throw the ball and how to score or stop someone scoring. Each side scores once. The tutorial freezes as it goes through to point mechanics out and show you how to do things.

This would make it more enjoyable foreveryone involved and increase the quality.

I didn't read half of the patch notes in full and blew myself up one meter from the goal line like a dummy. I'm sure I'm not the only one, lol.

You know those little flying text boxes that appear when you hover your mouse over some objects? We could easily put an object in the spawn lobbies with this functionality, and have all you just listed display on this text box for anyone to read in spawn. It'd be a very simple way of informing players of match functions. Wouldn't be terribly interactive, but it'd be there for read any time, not just in loading screen- and it'd be easy to edit a tiny piece of text every time you change a match function.

I didn't read half of the patch notes in full and blew myself up one meter from the goal line like a dummy. I'm sure I'm not the only one, lol.

 

You know those little flying text boxes that appear when you hover your mouse over some objects? We could easily put an object in the spawn lobbies with this functionality, and have all you just listed display on this text box for anyone to read in spawn. It'd be a very simple way of informing players of match functions. Wouldn't be terribly interactive, but it'd be there for read any time, not just in loading screen- and it'd be easy to edit a tiny piece of text every time you change a match function.

Good idea, only people are dumb and wouldn’t read it.

Good idea, only people are dumb and wouldn’t read it.

Yeah, and if there's a tutorial, they'll skip it or just clickclickclick through without paying attention because it's delaying their PvP.

"What"s this Sith? A tutorial on how to PvP? How do I get rid of this carp?"

Yeah, and if there's a tutorial, they'll skip it or just clickclickclick through without paying attention because it's delaying their PvP.

 

"What"s this Sith? A tutorial on how to PvP? How do I get rid of this carp?"

Maybe don’t allow that the first time they do a map on a character. It only needs to pop up once and any other time they can check it out of their volution

They provide a tutorial for Odessen PVP but you still get idiots who will use the red debuff on their own node. Granted if it was interactive, they might have to, but then again they might just spacebar through it.

If it's per character, that means it will be mandatory for each character we make, even if we've done it many times before on other alts. Pass.

I didn't read half of the patch notes in full and blew myself up one meter from the goal line like a dummy. I'm sure I'm not the only one, lol.

 

You know those little flying text boxes that appear when you hover your mouse over some objects? We could easily put an object in the spawn lobbies with this functionality, and have all you just listed display on this text box for anyone to read in spawn. It'd be a very simple way of informing players of match functions. Wouldn't be terribly interactive, but it'd be there for read any time, not just in loading screen- and it'd be easy to edit a tiny piece of text every time you change a match function.

That most likely happened to me as well, it's bs that that happens. I mean really, if they want us to play that damned thing, then why blow us up for playing it right?

Someone has to have the ball, if nobody else.

That most likely happened to me as well, it's bs that that happens. I mean really, if they want us to play that damned thing, then why blow us up for playing it right?

 

Someone has to have the ball, if nobody else.

Every Hutt Ball I have to run through the changes at the beginning of the match to tell people. Some argue and tell me I’m wrong, others tell me to stop doing it every match, others tell me to shut up, others tell me they’ll play how they like, others say just don’t pick up the ball.... hardly any response is positive when trying to help,

The whole thing gets really frustrating. I shouldn’t have to do that at the beginning of every Hutt Ball to let players know about the changes. I don’t enjoy getting trolled or personally attacked for trying to help,

Of course I could try not saying anything and then we lose because people die from not passing or trying to pass to people who are stunned.

Which then causes other people to rage at them and rage quit teams because people don’t know about the changes.

Even a week and half after the changes, I’ve nearly whole teams who don’t know about them.

This is something Bioware should be doing, not something players have to put up with.

I lost interest in pvp very, very quickly when in one of my first warzones I got called various things for asking what I was supposed to do on that map. I might've lost interest before long anyway, but at least at that time I know I would've very much appreciated it.

I do not see, however, how using the GSF tutorial is useful as an example. It struck me as completely pointless to a new player.

If they do it, they'd need to do it right. But they probably won't do it anyway.

Maybe don’t allow that the first time they do a map on a character. It only needs to pop up once and any other time they can check it out of their volution

How do you make them actually read it and absorb the information?

How do you make them actually read it and absorb the information?

This.

Also - how do you make people want to play objectives? From reading the pvp forums it looks like the problem isn't the new players (there are plenty of guides to the pvp maps for those who want to learn) but the older players who just don't care about doing the objectives.

Another problem is the emphasis on the numbers on the final score chart , something new players do notice and think that farming numbers is the right thing to do, it's how you get the MVP votes, afterall. The problem is you don't always get high numbers by guarding nodes, taking time out from parsing to prevent a node cap (ACW - it's amazing how often a node get capped while there are 4+ of each team there), using your cc abilities, using cleanses ...

How do you make them actually read it and absorb the information?

You can't... which is why this thread is pointless. Beyond pointless actually. I guess you could use it as a hammer against players that do not follow your direction or play "best in class" toward objectives... but that too is pointless... particularly in a PvP setting. Anyone that wants to play a PvP encounter in the best possible manner can and will spend a little time researching on the internet.... because they are motivated by personal objectives to do so. So even for these folks.. a tutorial is wasted effort.

Most people can't or won't even read basic written instructions to setup their latest internet enabled devices.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink."

Better quote: "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

There are tutorials available, even if not in the game. There are lots of "tips" on loading screens that get ignored. And, it's a thousand times easier to click off an in-game tutorial and ignore it, while much harder to ignore a person on your team helping you learn the map if you don't know it and want to learn.

The real problem is, most people don't want to learn and even those that do won't necessarily read and absorb a tutorial, but it will definitely burden the rest of us to have to go through one on every single new character we create the first time they queue for Hutt Ball or whatever.

It might be a pain in the rear to explain it to people, but the other option is to just... not. Just let the match play out and answer questions if they are asked, but otherwise not worry so much about how other people are playing regs. The "number farming" parse jockeys are so prevalent that you won't likely overcome them anyway. And, until the system is set up to NOT reward those people more medals than the folks who actually do objectives, that's how it will be. When high DPS numbers and low objectives actually harm the scoreboard, perhaps then it will matter. But as long as they can sort the list and be at the top for standing off somewhere doing their own thing and not contributing to objectives, all the tutorials in the world will not solve the problem.

Otherwise, I think tutorials would be alright... except for the inconvenience of having to go through them on every new character you create (veteran or not). But there are certainly games out there that take this approach. The rest (and SWTOR generally) just rely on you to figure out what you are doing as you are doing it and/or seek help if you know you need it. Again, problem with that is that many don't know they need it.

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How do you make them actually read it and absorb the information?

If it’s interactive as a proper tutorial, they actually have to do stuff, not read it. That is what happens in GSF the first time you go to play it and it also happens in a lot of modern games to explain mechanics.

People don’t have the time or patience to read stuff. It’s why the old manuals you used to get with games went the way of the dodo bird. I remember when I purchased EuroFighter 2000 back in 1994 and it had a 100 page manual to go with it,

It’s for that reason that games became simpler to work out and why a lot of games are more intuitive or have proper interactive tutorials.

More people learn from doing than reading.

You can't... which is why this thread is pointless. Beyond pointless actually. I guess you could use it as a hammer against players that do not follow your direction or play "best in class" toward objectives... but that too is pointless... particularly in a PvP setting. Anyone that wants to play a PvP encounter in the best possible manner can and will spend a little time researching on the internet.... because they are motivated by personal objectives to do so. So even for these folks.. a tutorial is wasted effort.

 

Most people can't or won't even read basic written instructions to setup their latest internet enabled devices.

 

"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink."

Please tell me how this thread is pointless when asking for an “interactive tutorial”. The title doesn’t ask for written tutorial at all.

Maybe if people knew what the actual objective and mechanics were, they would understand what is required.

Also how many people really research on the internet and why should they have to when Bioware make some big game mechanic changes like exploding Hutt Balls and not passing while stunned?

I think implementation leaves a lot to be argued about (aside from plausibility of implementation in general), but I can appreciate the idea, and mostly from remembering my early frustration with the game not explaining many of the more fundamental concepts.

A quick glance at the existing ingame tutorials shows that they have been adjusted to UI changes, but I remember when I was a a newbie and had zero understanding of the trinity system, what a tank was, how objectives in pvp worked, and none of that was explained in them at all. Yet I'd still get chewed out for not knowing such things.

I am not a fan of forcing people through tutorials, that is not going to make anyone happy, but the game could stand to improve a lot in providing information to those that want it, don't know what sites to otherwise go for it and might be just a little too shy or off-put by general chat to ask strangers.

Better quote: "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."

 

There are tutorials available, even if not in the game. There are lots of "tips" on loading screens that get ignored. And, it's a thousand times easier to click off an in-game tutorial and ignore it, while much harder to ignore a person on your team helping you learn the map if you don't know it and want to learn.

 

The real problem is, most people don't want to learn and even those that do won't necessarily read and absorb a tutorial, but it will definitely burden the rest of us to have to go through one on every single new character we create the first time they queue for Hutt Ball or whatever.

 

It might be a pain in the rear to explain it to people, but the other option is to just... not. Just let the match play out and answer questions if they are asked, but otherwise not worry so much about how other people are playing regs. The "number farming" parse jockeys are so prevalent that you won't likely overcome them anyway. And, until the system is set up to NOT reward those people more medals than the folks who actually do objectives, that's how it will be. When high DPS numbers and low objectives actually harm the scoreboard, perhaps then it will matter. But as long as they can sort the list and be at the top for standing off somewhere doing their own thing and not contributing to objectives, all the tutorials in the world will not solve the problem.

 

Otherwise, I think tutorials would be alright... except for the inconvenience of having to go through them on every new character you create (veteran or not). But there are certainly games out there that take this approach. The rest (and SWTOR generally) just rely on you to figure out what you are doing as you are doing it and/or seek help if you know you need it. Again, problem with that is that many don't know they need it.

 

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Part of that I agree with, especially the last 2 sections.

But I will always champion to make the quality of pvp better and that means not giving up on educating new people before they learn the bad habits from those who don’t care.

In the last 18 months, the quality of pvp has dropped significantly and is still dropping because the good players have been abandoning ship for years and the new breed have very few people to learn off, so they learn off less and less skilled people as time goes by.

I say this a lot to describe whats happening, “noobs breed more noobs”. And we are now at the point where there are so many noobs in the game, that new people only see them as an example of how to play pvp. Which just reduces the quality more and produces more noobs.

Quality pvpers or players with enough “good” knowledge to pass on to new pvpers are in short supply. Any fool can go into pvp and dps farm. It’s not hard to work out you hit the red guys. But that’s not how you win matches.

Trying to explain mechanics, tactics or god forbid any strategy is becoming harder and harder to do because the noobs out number you and shout you down. Then the new people don’t know what’s, what or who to listen too.

The fundamental purpose of any sort of pvp in any computer game is to win. That’s what pvp is about and it’s what a lot of noobs in this game have forgotten.

People don’t play FP shooters to lose. People don’t play Over watch to lose. People don’t play WoW pvp to lose.

This seems to have been forgotten by many people who venture into this games pvp. They forget the underlying purpose is to win.

Of course pvp in this game is about fighting and killing the enemy. Except doing that alone won’t win you a match unless you also try to win. And the only way you win objective pvp is if you play the objectives. But if people don’t understand those objectives and mechanics, how can you expect them to play them.

In the past we had plenty of good players who lead by example and new people could learn by watching them, listening to them or asking them questions.

Now they have hardly anyone to watch, they don’t listen because they see noobs deriding people trying to help and they don’t ask questions because of the smart arse responses the noobs give when they do ask.

Yes, they could make an effort and get online and research what to do. But they don’t and shouldn’t have to go to 3rd party sites to learn the basics. They do what most people try to do, they go into matches and hope they can learn as they go. It’s how a lot of us old timers learnt to pvp in this game. Except for us, we had plenty of people to learn off,

There are guides that community members have made (I’ve one listed in my signature), but lots of those people have since left the game as it’s declined and nothing is being updated anymore. So when Bioware make big changes that are different to what’s in these guides, new pvpers have no where to find that information except to search through patch notes.

I don’t enjoy losing pvp or playing pvp matches and winning because everyone around me just “accepts” that nothing can be done to help people learn to play.

Just because something is hard, doesn’t mean you should give up or bow to apathy. I know the quality has been diminishing in the whole game, especially pvp, but if I give up and say, “oh well, it’s out of my hands”, I become part of that problem that’s propagating the bad play.

I maybe fighting a losing battle, but that doesn’t mean I’m going down without a fight. It’s like in pvp, I fight till the last. Even if my whole team gives up and sits at a node, I will still engage the enemy even though I’m out numbered. Sometimes I can swing a match if it’s not too late and other times I use it to practice my combat skills against multiple targets.

Giving up is for losers and they will always be losers because they give up instead of trying to get better and win.

I’m passionate about this game. I critique it because I see its potential to be better or I see a flaw that needs fixing. We all know I post a lot and make what some say are “pointless” threads, as I’m often accused of. But if I didn’t care about the game, I wouldn’t bother and I would let it fester and die. The last thing I want is for this game to die, but that’s what’s happening because there are too many people willing to accept the status quo. I won’t be one of those people, I will voice my opinion and suggestions till I leave the game. If that upsets some people, I don’t really care because nothing they say will ever stop me trying to improve the game or stop it declining.

I’m passionate about this game. I critique it because I see its potential to be better or I see a flaw that needs fixing. We all know I post a lot and make what some say are “pointless” threads, as I’m often accused of. But if I didn’t care about the game, I wouldn’t bother and I would let it fester and die. The last thing I want is for this game to die, but that’s what’s happening because there are too many people willing to accept the status quo. I won’t be one of those people, I will voice my opinion and suggestions till I leave the game. If that upsets some people, I don’t really care because nothing they say will ever stop me trying to improve the game or stop it declining.

I understand, I really do. I was the exact same way, since launch, with an uninterrupted subscription... here posting left and right. I don't even play the game anymore and I still post here (while I can, but that will be ending soon too).

I was very passionate also. I posted trying my best to make reasonable, common sense suggestions and give helpful feedback, with as little feeding of the trolls and arguing with people as I could manage. But I can count on 2 or 3 fingers the number of times that has ever resulted in anything of value. And after most of the really good constructive feedback was ignored (mine and others!), things remained broken in the game for years, and I had played every bit of content there was for me to play (usually several hundred times)... it became about saving my sanity and not wasting my time.

But that's me. You do you, and I won't ever stand in the way. I understand where you're coming from because I was the same way for a very long time. But the fight finally became something that was not worth it to me, and I've moved on. For me, it was completely the right decision. But for you, and your sake... I hope that you have better results than I had. It's hard to see a game I spent so much time, money, and effort playing going down the tubes, but it's seemingly heading that direction, and at a faster rate than I can ever remember.

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I understand, I really do. I was the exact same way, since launch, with an uninterrupted subscription... here posting left and right. I don't even play the game anymore and I still post here (while I can, but that will be ending soon too).

 

I was very passionate also. I posted trying my best to make reasonable, common sense suggestions and give helpful feedback, with as little feeding of the trolls and arguing with people as I could manage. But I can count on 2 or 3 fingers the number of times that has ever resulted in anything of value. And after most of the really good constructive feedback was ignored, things remained broken in the game for years, and I had played every bit of content there was for me to play (usually several hundred times)... it became about saving my sanity and not wasting my time.

 

But that's me. You do you, and I won't ever stand in the way. I understand where you're coming from because I was the same way for a very long time. But the fight finally became something that was not worth it to me, and I've moved on. For me, it was completely the right decision. But for you, and your sake... I hope that you have better results than I had. It's hard to see a game I spent so much time, money, and effort playing going down the tubes, but it's seemingly heading that direction, and at a faster rate than I can ever remember.

 

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It’s sad to see such a passionate player leave a game theyve loved all because the Devs keep making mistakes as well as making the game less fun.

Bioware need to wake up and realise that once they start making people like us leave, theyve gone too far and need to take a long hard look at why the most passionate players keep leaving.

I wish you all the luck in the world finding another game you can enjoy and become passionate about. It’s sad to see you go, but it’s completely understandable.

It’s sad to see such a passionate player leave a game theyve loved all because the Devs keep making mistakes as well as making the game less fun.

 

Bioware need to wake up and realise that once they start making people like us leave, theyve gone too far and need to take a long hard look at why the most passionate players keep leaving.

 

I wish you all the luck in the world finding another game you can enjoy and become passionate about. It’s sad to see you go, but it’s completely understandable.

Thanks! I already have started playing WoW with a group of people I used to play SWTOR with, and am absolutely loving their new expansion. It has been great fun enjoying a game with these people again. =)

I wish you the best too! Keep fighting the good fight, but most of all enjoy yourself.

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