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Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian Set Bonus Discussion
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AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.14.2015 , 07:34 PM | #11
I'm currently very happy with my juggernaut tank set bonus. As to the people who say that the 6piece is very weak, I completely disagree, 1.5 seconds extra blade turning is great for defending against big bursts of melee/ranged damage. 3 seconds of extra invincible is also very nice, remember invincible is the juggernauts best cooldown for mitigating force/tech damage, barring saber reflect, which only reflects a couple of attacks, rather than invincible's straight up damage taken decrease.
4piece isn't spectacular, but it does allow you to keep taunt active on a boss for a consecutive 18 seconds, which is great, because the start of the fight is generally where keeping aggro is the hardest.

Excise's Avatar


Excise
07.15.2015 , 06:14 AM | #12
I've always liked the 4-piece and 6-piece for Juggardians, but the 2-piece is super dull. Would it be valid if it helped with non-survivability stuff, such as threat building or mobility?
[[The real Revan wouldn't go crazy and kill the Emperor with an insane ceremony. The real Revan would get smashed on stims until his eyeballs bled, abuse the insane pathing AI, and reload the instant something went wrong. He would be unstoppable.]]

Luckygunslinger's Avatar


Luckygunslinger
07.15.2015 , 06:43 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Excise View Post
I've always liked the 4-piece and 6-piece for Juggardians, but the 2-piece is super dull. Would it be valid if it helped with non-survivability stuff, such as threat building or mobility?
Threat Gen isn't an issue for Guardian. Mobility is, but tying mobility into set bonus is a bad idea because it's such a trivial thing that should be tied to disciplines.

Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
I'm currently very happy with my juggernaut tank set bonus. As to the people who say that the 6piece is very weak, I completely disagree, 1.5 seconds extra blade turning is great for defending against big bursts of melee/ranged damage. 3 seconds of extra invincible is also very nice, remember invincible is the juggernauts best cooldown for mitigating force/tech damage, barring saber reflect, which only reflects a couple of attacks, rather than invincible's straight up damage taken decrease.
4piece isn't spectacular, but it does allow you to keep taunt active on a boss for a consecutive 18 seconds, which is great, because the start of the fight is generally where keeping aggro is the hardest.
It's not weak no, but the issue is it comes off as something that should be tied to the class. The 3 seconds of Warding Call is good but again, it makes little sense why it's not the same as ward. Blade Turning, though amazing in its situation, ranged and melee abilities don't come across too often for the set bonus to be considered amazing. I'd make the 12 sec Warding Call baseline, make the 6 piece a increase in Blade Turning and bring back the old Sonic Barrier buff but not have it trivial.

Artorias
5/5 HM Rav - Revanchist - HM ToS 5/5
Rage - Immortal - Guides - Defense - Focus

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.15.2015 , 06:54 AM | #14
Maybe the 2piece can be something like this:
Using enrage/combat focus will make the next crushing blow/guardian slash damage up to 7 additional nearby enemies for the same amount.

This way, we won't need to try to secure aggro without our highest threat ability until we can use our aegis assault/warding strike without losing aggro.

Luckygunslinger's Avatar


Luckygunslinger
07.15.2015 , 06:59 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Maybe the 2piece can be something like this:
Using enrage/combat focus will make the next crushing blow/guardian slash damage up to 7 additional nearby enemies for the same amount.

This way, we won't need to try to secure aggro without our highest threat ability until we can use our aegis assault/warding strike without losing aggro.
2-piece is fine and decent for slowly reducing DTPS.
4-piece is only needed for Commanders if you swap Sano and Kurse in HM.

Enrage granting Aegis has been something I've been asking the devs for since the first week of 3.0. But again, threat gen isn't an issue with the tools we have.

Artorias
5/5 HM Rav - Revanchist - HM ToS 5/5
Rage - Immortal - Guides - Defense - Focus

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.15.2015 , 07:43 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Luckygunslinger View Post
2-piece is fine and decent for slowly reducing DTPS.
4-piece is only needed for Commanders if you swap Sano and Kurse in HM.

Enrage granting Aegis has been something I've been asking the devs for since the first week of 3.0. But again, threat gen isn't an issue with the tools we have.
The 4piece is great for having a consecutive 18 seconds of taunt active on a boss, which is pretty nice tbh. Imo nothing really needs to change about the juggernaut set bonus, but I could do with losing the 2piece in return for getting enrage to turn crushing blow into an aoe (which should be baseline, but getting it via set bonus is better than nothing). Because AoE threath is kinda weak if you don't have saber reflect extra threath or aegis buff already active.

Mr_Fuzzle's Avatar


Mr_Fuzzle
07.15.2015 , 01:49 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Luckygunslinger View Post
2-piece is fine and decent for slowly reducing DTPS.
4-piece is only needed for Commanders if you swap Sano and Kurse in HM.

Enrage granting Aegis has been something I've been asking the devs for since the first week of 3.0. But again, threat gen isn't an issue with the tools we have.
I know you're quite "knowledgeable" about Guardian tanks, but for proper aggro generation on a Guardian running with competent DPS for certain fights, the taunt cooldown reduction is quite nice and helps achieve a full 18 second taunt cycle off the bat. Additionally you can help out your raid group with Guardianship more often on things like HM Revan. More casual players who taunt at the wrong times can more quickly overcome their mistakes. Threat gen is not an issue with competent tanks, but competent tanks make use of the tools they have to achieve that goal. This does include taunts. I wonder when you'll update your guide to include an opener that will hold against competent dps...

As for what you said about Blade Turning, in the majority of current content yes, Blade turning is not that useful. However in future operations (fingers crossed here), it may be. Besides, Saber Ward is by far one of the worst cooldowns Guardians have for current content. For your statement at the end of that comment, there is no way to bring back the Sonic Barrier buff that isn't trivial. It really doesn't amount to much and honestly you won't notice a difference. The set bonus increase to Warding Call is fine, it gives incentive to get the 6 piece.

I know you've appointed yourself king Guardian and our representative, but honestly you need to think about things before you post (yes this is going to piss you off). The current set bonus is actually fine unlike for DPS Guardians.

The best way to improve the set bonus is to tie the taunt CD reset to Blade Storm to somewhat keep up with Vanguards. Other than that, there is little work to be done to fix this not broken set bonus.
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GrandLordMenace's Avatar


GrandLordMenace
07.15.2015 , 02:25 PM | #18
Gonna butt in and say that for PVP the bonus is fine.

Let the drama continue /passespopcornout
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Mr_Fuzzle's Avatar


Mr_Fuzzle
07.15.2015 , 02:29 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by GrandLordMenace View Post
Gonna butt in and say that for PVP the bonus is fine.

Let the drama continue /passespopcornout
Eats some popcorn. Because who doesn't like popcorn other than when it gets gritty and gets in your teeth.
Borac'duk - Defense Guardian <Republic Gentlemen>
Boracarpe the Revanchist - Shield Tech Vanguard <Republic Gentlemen>
Boracrunch - TK Sage <Pyre>
Entire other swarm of Boras

Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
07.15.2015 , 02:37 PM | #20
6p setbonus : Increases the damage absorbed by sonic barrier and Sonic Wall by 100%

or

Using Sonic Barrier will heal you for the amount absorbed.
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