I've read many people say that SW:TOR is not an MMO but an online single player game or a co-op game but I don't really see any reasons as to why it isn't an MMO so I'd like to find out what makes an MMO an MMO for you guys and why SW:TOR is lacking these areas.

 

I personally don't really see much difference between TOR and say LotRO, EQ2 and WoW especially as its in its infancy and those games have had time to add lots of features that we take granted these days. Now I accept the arguement that even those games I've mentioned don't really stack up compared to older MMO's like Asherons Call, DAOC and EQ but they also were not perfect and really just put players in a world and had them grind their tails off, so I'm a little perplexed by this SW:TOR is not an MMO but I'm always willing to be proved wrong and re-educated.

One of the things that I do believe makes an MMO is community, something TOR is terribly lacking and the other newer MMOs such as WoW, EQ2, and the like also seem to have done away with.

 

Community isn't just a mob of disorganized individuals worrying about themselves and no one else, with the occasional raid. Community is a collective of many people with a clear focus. In the original EQ, this was simply for the sake of leveling as you couldn't even get anywhere unless you grouped. In the olden days of WoW, this was heavily emphasized with PVP matches (Remember Alterac Valley matches that lasted 2 days and were made up of only people on a single server).

 

In SWG, it was a community with the entire socio-economic structure of the game. Cantinas were places to go for socializing after running spin groups. In that game you could not go anywhere, touch any item, or perform any activity without another player being involved in it somewhere.

 

Over time, though, the community emphasis has shifted to that of the singular individual, with games like WoW altering their entire structure over time to accommodate it. Instant gratification has become the norm, and TOR holds to that ideal even more so with a very solo-centric storyline that further separates people from each other.

 

The problem is that it isn't easily fixed. This is the new reality of online gaming.

Hi Calerxes:

 

For me, the biggest problem with SWTOR is that I had exactly two PvP encounters the entire time as I levelled my Sith Inquisitor to level 50. (two total)

 

In WoW, I would have PvP experiences (just out and about, see someone, and one of us is going to die) every day, probably at least 5-10 per day, on average, and some days a lot more.

 

SWTOR is lacking what I consider to be open world PvP almost entirely, and thus, for me, it's not really an MMO.

SWTOR meets every definition of an MMO, the people that say it isn't an MMO are trying to make the argument that whatever aspect of the game they don't like disqualifies it from MMO status. It is the equivalent of one soccer player telling another player on their team "your not a real soccer player".

diablo III is an online single player game..considering it is a single player game that requires you to be online at all times in order to play it..

 

star wars is an mmo since you can play with other people ( the number of people on does not change the fact you can play with a large group) and it also requires you to be online

 

the differences are clear

Hi Calerxes:

 

For me, the biggest problem with SWTOR is that I had exactly two PvP encounters the entire time as I levelled my Sith Inquisitor to level 50. (two total)

 

In WoW, I would have PvP experiences (just out and about, see someone, and one of us is going to die) every day, probably at least 5-10 per day, on average, and some days a lot more.

 

SWTOR is lacking what I consider to be open world PvP almost entirely, and thus, for me, it's not really an MMO.

 

so guild wars isnt an mmo since they dont have open world pvp?

does wow have open world pvp? ive never played it.

 

open world pvp does not = mmo...

Hi Calerxes:

 

For me, the biggest problem with SWTOR is that I had exactly two PvP encounters the entire time as I levelled my Sith Inquisitor to level 50. (two total)

 

In WoW, I would have PvP experiences (just out and about, see someone, and one of us is going to die) every day, probably at least 5-10 per day, on average, and some days a lot more.

 

SWTOR is lacking what I consider to be open world PvP almost entirely, and thus, for me, it's not really an MMO.

 

SWTOR meets every definition of an MMO, the people that say it isn't an MMO are trying to make the argument that whatever aspect of the game they don't like disqualifies it from MMO status. It is the equivalent of one soccer player telling another player on their team "your not a real soccer player".

 

I think we have a winner.

SWTOR is lacking what I consider to be open world PvP almost entirely, and thus, for me, it's not really an MMO.

 

This is the perfect example of how people will decide that because a certain aspect of this game isn't equal to a previous game they played, or isn't the way they want it, that make SWTOR not an MMO. Technically these games are MMORPG since they are role playing games.

 

As you may be able to guess the definition of an MMORPG has nothing to do with PvP encounters, if there are cut scenes, raid encounters or the big one how much it mimmicks whatever game you played first that you consider a "real" MMORPG.

SWTOR is an MMO by definition - the things that people argue are created by the population not the design of the game (like the afore mentioned community or world PVP - those are based on how people play the game not the game itself. The game can move them one way or the other but it is not the deciding factor).

 

Other people say that it's a single player game b/c it has a story in which that is centered on the player. Again, by definition, that doesn't matter. MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online - the only part that is open of interpretation is "massively" which essentially means that it is capable of supporting hundreds/thousands which SWTOR does.

I can tell why SWTOR is not an MMO. First, do you play on one of the handful of full servers? If so, then it generally is an MMO. There is no OWPVP, but that is a different issue. The problem is that the terrible server management and the game engine itself do not allow any substantial number of players to interact at the same time. I played a lot of LOTRO. It never, never, was as dead as the typical SWTOR plant. I dont think I ever was in a region in LOTRO where I was the only person. Typically there would be a half dozen people within viewing range. In LOTRO you could get twenty people in the screen and not have freezes. Then at each major destination point you nearly always had five or more people within a few seconds of movement space. This was after a year of play. And it was the same the entire year since I started playing it in closed beta. Now, having been on Tera since beta, we still have many people playing in almost every area. You NEVER, in either LOTRO or Tera, can move at full speed for twenty minutes and not see a single other player. That is common in SWTOR. Understand now?

I can tell why SWTOR is not an MMO. First, do you play on one of the handful of full servers? If so, then it generally is an MMO. There is no OWPVP, but that is a different issue. The problem is that the terrible server management and the game engine itself do not allow any substantial number of players to interact at the same time. I played a lot of LOTRO. It never, never, was as dead as the typical SWTOR plant. I dont think I ever was in a region in LOTRO where I was the only person. Typically there would be a half dozen people within viewing range. In LOTRO you could get twenty people in the screen and not have freezes. Then at each major destination point you nearly always had five or more people within a few seconds of movement space. This was after a year of play. And it was the same the entire year since I started playing it in closed beta. Now, having been on Tera since beta, we still have many people playing in almost every area. You NEVER, in either LOTRO or Tera, can move at full speed for twenty minutes and not see a single other player. That is common in SWTOR. Understand now?

 

the number of people in a game does not make it an mmo.. the simple fact that it CAN be played with a bunch of people makes it an mmo... the number playing doesnt make it an mmo..it makes it a successful mmo...

SWTOR is an MMO by definition - the things that people argue are created by the population not the design of the game (like the afore mentioned community or world PVP - those are based on how people play the game not the game itself. The game can move them one way or the other but it is not the deciding factor).

 

Other people say that it's a single player game b/c it has a story in which that is centered on the player. Again, by definition, that doesn't matter. MMO means Massively Multiplayer Online - the only part that is open of interpretation is "massively" which essentially means that it is capable of supporting hundreds/thousands which SWTOR does.

Again, the issue is not whether it is "capable" of supporting hundreds of people, it is whether it actually does. And the game engine, btw, is probably the worst I have seen at supporting many people in the same area at the same time.

This game is a series of tunnels. You only run into other players if you're passing in a respective tunnel.

 

Given the GM action that happened during the PVP event that happened on Fatman last week, it's obvious that it was NEVER the intention of BW to have game where people played with one another in large numbers. Sure BW apologized, but the GM who harassed the players didn't do it in a vacuum. BW doesn't want people playing together in large groups.

 

That's what other games (MMOs) have that this game does not. Heck, looking back to the days of Tauren Mill vs. South Shore...one afternoon of that on a single server was more player interaction than this game has had in its entirety.

 

This game isn't going to "die" but it is shrinking. It'll have a core following, but that will be it. It'll be another Rift at best. A City of Heroes at the least.

Again, the issue is not whether it is "capable" of supporting hundreds of people, it is whether it actually does. And the game engine, btw, is probably the worst I have seen at supporting many people in the same area at the same time.

 

the definition of an mmo is if it is capable of supporting hundreds of people.. which it can... it doesnt matter how many people play.. an mmo is still an mmo if no one plays it..it just sucks then

I've read many people say that SW:TOR is not an MMO but an online single player game or a co-op game but I don't really see any reasons as to why it isn't an MMO so I'd like to find out what makes an MMO an MMO for you guys and why SW:TOR is lacking these areas.

 

I personally don't really see much difference between TOR and say LotRO, EQ2 and WoW especially as its in its infancy and those games have had time to add lots of features that we take granted these days. Now I accept the arguement that even those games I've mentioned don't really stack up compared to older MMO's like Asherons Call, DAOC and EQ but they also were not perfect and really just put players in a world and had them grind their tails off, so I'm a little perplexed by this SW:TOR is not an MMO but I'm always willing to be proved wrong and re-educated.

 

MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online. Let's dissect that... backwards.

 

Online - Yep, you have to connect to a service over the internet to play the game. SWTOR has this covered.

 

Multiplayer - Yep, you play the game with more people than yourself. SWTOR has this covered.

 

Massively - Hrm... The best definition I can find for this word at dictionary.com is "relatively intensive or large; considerable"... large... considerable. I imagine it depends on which server you've selected. One might call Fatman's population massive. One might not call 20 or fewer people online massive... especially when console games offer bigger fields of concurrent players.

 

There is no doubt that SWTOR was designed to be an MMO.

 

There is also no doubt that on the majority of SWTOR servers today, it is not, in fact, an MMO, because it fails at delivering that first "M".

There are a lot of good examples here of how people falsely accuse SWTOR of not being an MMO for poor reasons. The definition of an MMO has nothing to do with what Tera, LOTRO or WoW is like. It has nothing to do with how many people you see at one time, or how long you travel for with or without seeing anyone. Those are all opinions about different types of MMOs and different options they put in them.

 

The defining point of an MMO is that a bunch of people are "housed" together on servers (doesn't matter if your particular server is dead or not) it is the ability to have people together on a server online. This differntiates it from something like an FPS that has an onine function and you can match up against other players but you don't reside on a server with them. If you have a game with the ability to house thousands of characters on a server (or realm or whatever other name they want to give it) and they can interact with the particular server and they can group together or even do something that interacts with the server not grouped up you have an MMO. You could even make a game where you can't group at all and it can still fit the defenition of an MMO.

 

There is also no doubt that on the majority of SWTOR servers today, it is not, in fact, an MMO, because it fails at delivering that first "M".

 

Sorry but that is wrong. A game doesn't change based on different people's defintion of the word massive. Also massive is not based on the number of people playing on a particular server, it is the entire game. It is about the potential users. A game can't be an MMO on one server and not an MMO on another server.

 

I think one key point you are missing is when the term MMO was coined a multiplayer game was you and a few of your buddies having a LAN party.

 

Your post boils down to "I'm not happy about the server populations so SWTOR isn't a real MMO".

Edited June 1, 2012 by kitsinni

The definition of an MMORPG is very clear. The intrepretation of what an MMORPG is varies greatly among different people.

 

SWTOR is an MMORPG. Undeniably. Anyone disputing this has some idealistic idea of what an MMORPG is to them that they have created in their head that, in reality, has nothing to do with what an MMORPG actually is.

It's def. an MMO. It's just not a very good one.

One of the things that I do believe makes an MMO is community, something TOR is terribly lacking and the other newer MMOs such as WoW, EQ2, and the like also seem to have done away with.

 

Community isn't just a mob of disorganized individuals worrying about themselves and no one else, with the occasional raid. Community is a collective of many people with a clear focus. In the original EQ, this was simply for the sake of leveling as you couldn't even get anywhere unless you grouped. In the olden days of WoW, this was heavily emphasized with PVP matches (Remember Alterac Valley matches that lasted 2 days and were made up of only people on a single server).

 

In SWG, it was a community with the entire socio-economic structure of the game. Cantinas were places to go for socializing after running spin groups. In that game you could not go anywhere, touch any item, or perform any activity without another player being involved in it somewhere.

 

Over time, though, the community emphasis has shifted to that of the singular individual, with games like WoW altering their entire structure over time to accommodate it. Instant gratification has become the norm, and TOR holds to that ideal even more so with a very solo-centric storyline that further separates people from each other.

 

The problem is that it isn't easily fixed. This is the new reality of online gaming.

 

^^ This.

 

And it surprises me how many players just sit around and expect the company to spoon feed a community to them, so they can not lift a finger in effort on their end. It seems they expect the community to revolve around themselves, without being a part of it.

One of the things that I do believe makes an MMO is community, something TOR is terribly lacking and the other newer MMOs such as WoW, EQ2, and the like also seem to have done away with.

 

Community isn't just a mob of disorganized individuals worrying about themselves and no one else, with the occasional raid. Community is a collective of many people with a clear focus. In the original EQ, this was simply for the sake of leveling as you couldn't even get anywhere unless you grouped.

Over time, though, the community emphasis has shifted to that of the singular individual, with games like WoW altering their entire structure over time to accommodate it. Instant gratification has become the norm, and TOR holds to that ideal even more so with a very solo-centric storyline that further separates people from each other.

 

The problem is that it isn't easily fixed. This is the new reality of online gaming.

 

Above quoted text is a excellent reply regarding community

One of the things that I do believe makes an MMO is community, something TOR is terribly lacking and the other newer MMOs such as WoW, EQ2, and the like also seem to have done away with.

 

Community isn't just a mob of disorganized individuals worrying about themselves and no one else, with the occasional raid. Community is a collective of many people with a clear focus. In the original EQ, this was simply for the sake of leveling as you couldn't even get anywhere unless you grouped. In the olden days of WoW, this was heavily emphasized with PVP matches (Remember Alterac Valley matches that lasted 2 days and were made up of only people on a single server).

 

In SWG, it was a community with the entire socio-economic structure of the game. Cantinas were places to go for socializing after running spin groups. In that game you could not go anywhere, touch any item, or perform any activity without another player being involved in it somewhere.

 

Over time, though, the community emphasis has shifted to that of the singular individual, with games like WoW altering their entire structure over time to accommodate it. Instant gratification has become the norm, and TOR holds to that ideal even more so with a very solo-centric storyline that further separates people from each other.

 

The problem is that it isn't easily fixed. This is the new reality of online gaming.

 

Excellent read. I noticed the WoW downfall as soon as Activision came into the picture but that's when I noticed, not sure if it was happening prior. I believe that was the wrath era if I'm not mistaken?

1) Chat. I know its bat **** crazy but chat bubbles mean I know who is talking and saying what and make me feel like I am listening to someone

2) Dialog. If the entire game has voiceovers but when other players say things out side an instance I dont get them speak and have to read I lose interest,

3) Sand Box, I like the idea of theam park games but I need a house, gun racks, decorations, harvesters, player cities, capital ships etc etc not just running the same instance where I have stopped Darth Malgus 30 times but still we keep letting the same guy take over Ilum. I would prefer if the repeatable quests made sence, but of 20 guys at Corellian 500 are spys and we still dont remove them

4) Character creation and species choice. I want to make my hero my way and then play as him. Not play as some standard "hawk" style hero.

 

All in all TOR is a poor MMO, its a good single player game, Could have been better when I defeat an evil Moff, I dont expect to leave his fortress and find all the the guys I kiled respawned. I expect to return to areas and see the good I have done rather than nothing has changed. But I enjoyed the story and the world.

diablo III is an online single player game..considering it is a single player game that requires you to be online at all times in order to play it..

 

star wars is an mmo since you can play with other people ( the number of people on does not change the fact you can play with a large group) and it also requires you to be online

 

the differences are clear

 

you can play diablo 3 with 4 people

Is it an MMO in the straight forward definition of MMO (Massive Multiplayer Online)? Yes it is. Is it an MMO in the sense of what MMO's where originally intended to be (UO, EQ)? Nope. Not in the slightests. The lack of community and the game design to be against it (everything being instanced, soloable and a linear solo story path while leveling), doesn't make it an MMO in the traditional sense in my opinion.