I've seen this brought up a couple of times in this thread and elsewhere--can anyone point me to the tooltip or guide or reason for not bubbling certain classes? I've been told recently I don't bubble enough, and very occasionally I'll see people lose their **** about being bubbled. I worked on spam-bubbling in a raid the other night with starparse and my protection numbers were huge and I was actually getting better HPS and eHPS overall (may have been unrelated, sure)

3 reasons some sorcs don't want someone else's bubble:

1. Lightning Barrier: Your Static Barrier crackles with electricity, shocking attackers for X damage when it absorbs direct damage to you. This effect cannot occur more than once each second.
    
   
2. Backlash: Static Barriers you place on yourself erupt in a flash of light when they end, blinding up to 8 nearby enemies for 3 seconds. This effect breaks from direct damage.
    
   
3. Corrupted Barrier: Your Static Barrier, Force Barrier, and Enduring Bastion heal you for 1% of your total health every second for as long as they last. This healing scales up to 4% with the charges of Enduring Bastion.
   

I've seen this brought up a couple of times in this thread and elsewhere--can anyone point me to the tooltip or guide or reason for not bubbling certain classes? I've been told recently I don't bubble enough, and very occasionally I'll see people lose their **** about being bubbled. I worked on spam-bubbling in a raid the other night with starparse and my protection numbers were huge and I was actually getting better HPS and eHPS overall (may have been unrelated, sure)

Just don't bubble another sorc, unless you want to annoy them or get bigger heal numbers in a WZ.

3 reasons some sorcs don't want someone else's bubble:

 

1. Lightning Barrier: Your Static Barrier crackles with electricity, shocking attackers for X damage when it absorbs direct damage to you. This effect cannot occur more than once each second.
    
   
2. Backlash: Static Barriers you place on yourself erupt in a flash of light when they end, blinding up to 8 nearby enemies for 3 seconds. This effect breaks from direct damage.
    
   
3. Corrupted Barrier: Your Static Barrier, Force Barrier, and Enduring Bastion heal you for 1% of your total health every second for as long as they last. This healing scales up to 4% with the charges of Enduring Bastion.
   

I thought the tooltips expressly said that this effect would only happen for you and not others that you bubble. Bubbling others should only absorb incoming damage to them, right?

Just don't bubble another sorc, unless you want to annoy them or get bigger heal numbers in a WZ.

What is annoying about it other than the visual? That they weren't paying attention enough to put it on themselves?

How is bigger heal numbers a bad thing?

(genuinely asking, I still don't get why people would get angry about absorbing a high amount of incoming damage)

I thought the tooltips expressly said that this effect would only happen for you and not others that you bubble. Bubbling others should only absorb incoming damage to them, right?

Yes, which is why other sorcs don't want you to bubble them. They want to bubble themselves to have these effects. Back when I did ops I would have to constantly ask other sorcs not to bubble me but was usually ignored. -_-

Not sure about classes other than sorcs that don't want bubbles though.

Edit to add: the sorcs likely have these abilities themselves but those abilities don't work if someone else bubbles them.

Yes, which is why other sorcs don't want you to bubble them. They want to bubble themselves to have these effects. Back when I did ops I would have to constantly ask other sorcs not to bubble me but was usually ignored. -_-

 

Not sure about classes other than sorcs that don't want bubbles though.

 

Edit to add: the sorcs likely have these abilities themselves but those abilities don't work if someone else bubbles them.

Thank you for the explanation, makes sense to me now.

Thing is, those utilities Porsa listed (they are utilities, not passives), I would have no way to know on my own that they are using those utilities, right?

Is the best practice to just ask them before a fight if they want to be bubbled and let them decide? Or just always assume they are planning on using them?

Thank you for the explanation, makes sense to me now.

 

Thing is, those utilities Porsa listed (they are utilities, not passives), I would have no way to know on my own that they are using those utilities, right?

 

Is the best practice to just ask them before a fight if they want to be bubbled and let them decide? Or just always assume they are planning on using them?

They are passives.

Probably wouldn't hurt to ask. Normally if I'm on my sorc healer I won't bubble other sorcs and if I'm on a dps sorc that has those utilities, then I'll ask not to be bubbled if there's a sorc healer in the group. I used to use the healing utility on my healer, but would pull instant aggro in raids if I bubbled myself before the fights (because of the healing ticks). I learned pretty quick that it could cause no ends of trouble under the wrong circumstances.

It's been quite a while, but IIRC VG tanks have a defense proc that regens their ammo when they get hit, so putting a bubble on them would hinder the proc because it would absorb the hits. Also bubbling a jugg/guard that's using their defensive skill that regens on damage would be hindered, or a merc using Responsive Safeguards, etc. Meaning bubbles are situational at best for some other classes as well.

They are passives.

 

Probably wouldn't hurt to ask. Normally if I'm on my sorc healer I won't bubble other sorcs and if I'm on a dps sorc that has those utilities, then I'll ask not to be bubbled if there's a sorc healer in the group. I used to use the healing utility on my healer, but would pull instant aggro in raids if I bubbled myself before the fights (because of the healing ticks). I learned pretty quick that it could cause no ends of trouble under the wrong circumstances.

 

It's been quite a while, but IIRC VG tanks have a defense proc that regens their ammo when they get hit, so putting a bubble on them would hinder the proc because it would absorb the hits. Also bubbling a jugg/guard that's using their defensive skill that regens on damage would be hindered, or a merc using Responsive Safeguards, etc. Meaning bubbles are situational at best for some other classes as well.

Well, they're passive if you take the utilities, which are optional. That's what I meant.

Is the sorc bubble really strong enough to stop those other class abilities from working? I assumed when it says the bubble will absorb a high amount of damage that it doesn't absorb ALL damage. I completely see what you're saying though.

Spamming bubbles at the beginning of fights wouldn't then be a problem since those class situations would be when they're getting low on health and by that time I'm not going to be worrying about bubbling anyone for the most part. I guess?

I feel like an idiot with this because my corruption sorc is my main, but I just recently learned that I had ONE ability in the wrong place in my rotation that has an immensely important buff and it's thrown off my entire world! Now I'm questioning everything!

If i can choose between versatile or a high burst dps trustme i would choose the high burst damage.

BTW i am not playing in pvp, but clearly in pve content this underperformances from sorcerers are realy an existimg issue. I am palying as a sorc sience 2013. Lightning is weak, and madness as well. and the same on rep side, these specs needs damage buffs. sure survival abilites are good to have and why not, when it comes to pvp, but you have seen the dps list and high end tier sorc is underperforming compared to other classes and their specs. so that argument is pointless while teh evidences and facts are speaking for them self.

I am not a noob sorc/sage palyer i know my class inside out, if enyone would wake me up while i am dreaming i can tell everything from the sage/sorcerers But as you can see others also mentioned the fact that the sorcerers/sages are at the very bottom on the list sience 2.5 years. I think thats a sirius issue, knwoing the fact that other classes and specs are performing way higher values then sage/sorcerers. And Thats not okay. even if you all disagree with the facts and the evidences. So arguining against buffing only prooves my demand right, yes i use the word demand because 2.5 year is enough once and for all. And yes i am mad about this, because i wanna know how would you all react if your beloved classes and their specs under performing for 2.5 year? Let me answer that question. you will all burst out of rage, and also i bet you would all march to the SWTOR headquarter and burn down their office to the ground. So i think i have my right to make demands after a 2.5 year dont you think? or you all just a mindless sheeps? in that case well congrats now i get it why this game in this current state when it comes to class and spec ballances. Because it speaks for it self. Reguardless of my point of view. Lighting, tele/ madness, balance needs damage buffs ASAP. obviusly not liek an op one but still a very nice amount of damage buffs.

Well, they're passive if you take the utilities, which are optional. That's what I meant.

 

Is the sorc bubble really strong enough to stop those other class abilities from working? I assumed when it says the bubble will absorb a high amount of damage that it doesn't absorb ALL damage. I completely see what you're saying though.

 

Spamming bubbles at the beginning of fights wouldn't then be a problem since those class situations would be when they're getting low on health and by that time I'm not going to be worrying about bubbling anyone for the most part. I guess?

 

I feel like an idiot with this because my corruption sorc is my main, but I just recently learned that I had ONE ability in the wrong place in my rotation that has an immensely important buff and it's thrown off my entire world! Now I'm questioning everything!

The bubble absorbs a certain amount, I always thought once the amount was surpassed by damage the bubble dropped and the rest of the damage landed on the target.

As for other sorcs I was lazy and simply never bubbled them before the wz began however once the battle was on, if I found a sorc getting pummeled and needing heals I would throw a bubble on them because it’s fast and gives you time to add other heals on them. If you care, you can ask them if it’s ok to bubble before the wz starts, I just never bothered.

Well, they're passive if you take the utilities, which are optional. That's what I meant.

 

Is the sorc bubble really strong enough to stop those other class abilities from working? I assumed when it says the bubble will absorb a high amount of damage that it doesn't absorb ALL damage. I completely see what you're saying though.

 

Spamming bubbles at the beginning of fights wouldn't then be a problem since those class situations would be when they're getting low on health and by that time I'm not going to be worrying about bubbling anyone for the most part. I guess?

 

I feel like an idiot with this because my corruption sorc is my main, but I just recently learned that I had ONE ability in the wrong place in my rotation that has an immensely important buff and it's thrown off my entire world! Now I'm questioning everything!

If you cast a bubble on a jugg that just popped Enraged Defense

and that bubble absorbs 25-30k damage, then you just negated that amount of healing from that ability.

I wasn't aware that healers had a specific rotation to follow. I know there are abilities that take priority because of buffs and procs and such.

I saw a guide on dulfy that says to use overload (which would mean wasting a skill point in that utility).

The bubble absorbs a certain amount, I always thought once the amount was surpassed by damage the bubble dropped and the rest of the damage landed on the target.

This is right.

Normally what I do when I play any of my sorcs, in flashpoints at least, is bubble the tank or the one playing the aggressor in vets (unless it's another sorc). It gives them a quick second or two to establish aggro. While they jump/rush in, I'll start ramping up my damage dealings and prepare to steal the aggro.

One thing I find hilarious is when attempting to LoS pull a group of mobs, there's always someone who will open up with force storm while the mobs are still rather scattered, then end up taking a dirt nap. Or that special individual who opens with force storm the very instant the tank initiates a fight.

Then you have those really special types that let you pull all the mobs into a nice little pack and open with overload.

My current main project is lightning sorc, and i play madness from ti,e to time too. And i feel like there's no need for serious buff for sorcerers right now.

Maybe slightly, for example reducing the cooldown of Unnatural Preservation by 5 seconds and increase the duration of Force Storm by additional second or two for lightning spec.

Madness sorc needs no buff, it's already good in both pve and pvp and pretty much unkillable. Madness sorc, in fact, is currently best DPS in the game. Of course you need to be good to play it good, but that's it.

Knowing that they are a ranged class with powerful DCDs, they should be one of the lowest specs in terms of damage. Ranged is always an advantage over melee and this HAS to be taken into account when balancing a class. Since melee start at a disadvantage from range, they need either more powerful defensive capabilities, more damage, or both. It is like that in every game. And seeing as how many CC abilities and DCDS they have as well as range, they deserve to be the bottom of the barrel dps. Someone has to be the bottom and their kit basically says they should be. Remove a CC from their kit, remove some DCD power and they can add back dps.

If we are talking ops, they still deserve to be on the bottom end simply due to ranged mechanics being far superior to melee. Boss mechanics highly punish melee more than they do ranged.

For PVP, they should just play healer until Bioware finally properly balances healing by upping the healing penalty to 30%. Also ranged is a MASSIVE advantage in pvp.

Genei rule of thumb is don't bubble another sorcerer. Main reason is since you don't know what utilities they may have going you don't know if they have the lightning shield or the passive that heals. Those only trigger if the sorcerer bubbles themselves.

So unless asked I never bubble anyone other then myself.

I also don't bubble juggernauts for the same reason as stated. I can't count how many times ony juggernaut where I died because I pop Enraged Defense to be healed back to full, I get a bubble put on me and I miss out on a large amount of healing.

There are only so many charges of Enraged Defense and they expire fairly quickly which means they could potentially lose some or all of their heals.

So rule of thumb is is never bubble another player unless they ask or state at the beginning of the FP, OPS, WZ, etc that unless asked you won't bubble people.

Need to add my two credits here.

I main a Sor Cor (sage/sorc healer) and the bubble helps make my heals easier. I can bubble everyone and then focus on the tank and only throw some roaming mend on the dps. If in OPS, most of the DPS probably won't get it anyway. If there's another sorc in the group that uses their own bubble, they always beat me to activation since I start with the tank and healer. And, when they don't, my bubble IS going on them to help my heals. If they forget they're getting my bubble. Usually, I keep the tank healed so he CAN'T use Enraged Defense (thank you bubble) and if the bantha poo is starting to hit the fan cause someone stood in "stupid" or some other reason, the tank's placed bubble is probably off on cools and whether his ED is working is the least of our worries.

In seven years, I've yet to have anybody complain about my bubble. Cause my bubble saves lives.

PRO BUBBLE!

Genei rule of thumb is don't bubble another sorcerer. Main reason is since you don't know what utilities they may have going you don't know if they have the lightning shield or the passive that heals. Those only trigger if the sorcerer bubbles themselves.

 

So unless asked I never bubble anyone other then myself.

 

I also don't bubble juggernauts for the same reason as stated. I can't count how many times ony juggernaut where I died because I pop Enraged Defense to be healed back to full, I get a bubble put on me and I miss out on a large amount of healing.

 

There are only so many charges of Enraged Defense and they expire fairly quickly which means they could potentially lose some or all of their heals.

 

So rule of thumb is is never bubble another player unless they ask or state at the beginning of the FP, OPS, WZ, etc that unless asked you won't bubble people.

100% agree and have had exaclty the same issues. What annoys me is when you actually ask other Sorcs not to bubble you they do it anyway. They are either trolling or don’t even know their own class enough to understand they are being dumb. Then at the end of the match they point to their dps and say they are better than you because they farmed dps all match instead of playing the objectives.

What’s annoys me the most about these bad players is Sorcs are ideally positioned to be node go betweens for back up. I nearly always disengage and head to a node before calls even arrive. But in doing so my dps will suffer because I don’t stay for the last kill to “buff” my dps ego,

People need to learn that the dps board means jack **** if you lose. DPS matters, but so does playing the objectives and knowing your class role on the team. Standing at mid spamming AOES to measure who has the biggest dick on the scoreboard doesn’t win matches,

I really wish they’d just remove the public dps scoreboard stats and totally replace them with a proper medal system that rewards winning and contributing to the team. If people want to see their own stats to measure their performance that should be private. Pvp is and should be a team effort, not who can do the most dps at the expense of the losing the game.

100% agree and have had exaclty the same issues. What annoys me is when you actually ask other Sorcs not to bubble you they do it anyway. They are either trolling or don’t even know their own class enough to understand they are being dumb. Then at the end of the match they point to their dps and say they are better than you because they farmed dps all match instead of playing the objectives.

.

PVP I agree for the most part, outside pvp I don't. Read up what I wrote.

So rule of thumb is is never bubble another player unless they ask or state at the beginning of the FP, OPS, WZ, etc that unless asked you won't bubble people.

If I'm healing you, and you want my heals you're getting my bubble. Better beat me to it. Never had anyone say they didn't want my bubble. And when I'm sorc DPS I'm putting points in other activities than bubble stuff so I'll gladly take another's bubble especially if it helps their heals on ME. The few sorcs that wanted THEIR bubble, made sure it was on before I could put mine on.

However, if you're NOT the healer but are a sorc, absolutely, KEEP YOUR BUBBLE TO YOURSELF!

Versatile doesn't equate to potent or effective. From the perspective of someone that played healers predominantly, DPS should hurt. ling sorcs do not hurt. Madness sorcs can hurt when played well.

 

I guess it is a L2P issue for every ling sorc I ever encountered because I never met one that dominated matches and struck fear into me like some of the better mara, mercs, snipers, operatives, juggs, and even the rare PT.

 

I guess nothing but unskilled need 2l players play ling sorcs?

 

There were some madness sorcs that actually hurt my healers, it took them time to ramp up their damage but some madness sorcs really can put decent single target pressure on an enemy.

 

Personally I'd rather have killing power over "versatility" any day as a DPS.

Lighting is basically a glorified utility spec that doesn’t do either dps or healing properly. They are broken if all you can do is AOE to get damage. IMO, Dots shouldn’t even be a thing on lightning and AOE should be an ability that’s only slightly annoying to stop spam cappers and nothing else.

Lighting should be more like an Arsenal Merc or MM sniper. But if Bioware want them to be more utility, then they need those utilities to be useful. That means allowing lighting to have either more damage to make a difference in a 1v1 fight or to pressure some classes like healers. Or they need to give them much better heals so they can properly off heal at the expense of doing less dps. Either make the class a proper utility class or make it a proper dps class.

IMHO, we don’t need any utility classes or hybrid classes. Dps Sorcs don’t need to off heal because healers are great, especially pared with a dedicated tank. The same thing goes for DPS Jugg, Sins and PTs, they don’t need to have a guard utility or taunt. Tanks should be enough if they know how to play. Hybrids are outdated and aren’t needed in this meta.

Remove Sorc off heals. Keep healing to self healing only. Slightly nerf the self healing and boost dps output to that of a proper dps class.... Fixed.

PVP I agree for the most part, outside pvp I don't. Read up what I wrote.

I can only contribute from a pvp perspective. I’m not a raider (or haven’t been for 5 years).

I wasn't aware that healers had a specific rotation to follow. I know there are abilities that take priority because of buffs and procs and such.

To me that's just semantics. I could have said priority instead of rotation. Either way, I was doing one out of order and it's made healing for me much less frantic. I'm doing better numbers across the board just from changing prioritization of one single ability.

I agree about sorc bubble in PvE, it's really helpful from my perspective and there really shouldn't be too many times where someone's health is plummeting like that besides something dumb they're doing to themselves. If that's happening I'm not thinking about the bubble anyway. I will keep what you've all said about the bubble in PvP in mind, however. It's far more chaotic there and it's probably just easier to not bother and fill that space with something more useful.

Well in that case can somebody explain me why people saying that your 10k dps is not enough for them in nightmare OPS?

The answer is clear because other ranged classes like gunslinger forexample are doing waaaaaay higer damages then sages/sorcerers and they are ranged as well so what is this BS around what bioware said about rangeds? so thats not matters at all. in this case it is clear there are a very decent amount of elitism is effecting the current issue as well, while other classes performing way better as ranged dps in pve. What would you say in this case hm? you would form your own group? sure but when they see you are a sorc/sage people leaving your group. Because tehy all know how the class is perfmorning in high end meta build. So this is this is the reason to buff the sorc/sage damages too, becasue they got outshadowed by other classes and specs. And this effects alot of players who will get fustrated and leavs the game. And they are also see how other classes are performing, currently juggers are disgustingly overpowered with the gunslingers as well, and gunslinger is a ranged one, not a mele. while other ranged dps class like sorc/sages are at the botom of the dps list, and thats an issue. I dotn give a damn thing about PVP. cos sorc/sages are basicly in pvp means you are a free kill for mele, and other overpowered ranged classes. This is an issue, and it is all leads back to the fact that sorc/sages are weak as hell. Look up the statistics as well if you have doupts in my words. isntead just kepp saying teh same mindless BS about the sorcerers and sages are fine. What is fine about you are not accepted in any endcontet ops becasue your class is under performing? Alot of people arguing about this issues in almost every chat ingame. And i have seen there are also alot of same topics as well on the forums, and they are right. I have seen i have experianced what is wrong with the sorc/sages damages and thats not okay at all. You think thats fair and fine to see otehr ranged dps on teh deccent position on the list wihle yours are always at the bottom? No thats not okay reguardless what Bioware thinks about the ranged dps classes. And i dont think thats fine you are getting locked out from any group activity becasue of this sheet show what is going around with sorc/sages.

Well in that case can somebody explain me why people saying that your 10k dps is not enough for them in nightmare OPS?

 

The answer is clear because other ranged classes like gunslinger forexample are doing waaaaaay higer damages then sages/sorcerers and they are ranged as well so what is this BS around what bioware said about rangeds? so thats not matters at all.

 

in this case it is clear there are a very decent amount of elitism is effecting the current issue as well, while other classes performing way better as ranged dps in pve. What would you say in this case hm? you would form your own group? sure but when they see you are a sorc/sage people leaving your group.

 

Because tehy all know how the class is perfmorning in high end meta build. So this is this is the reason to buff the sorc/sage damages too, becasue they got outshadowed by other classes and specs.

 

this effects alot of players who will get fustrated and leavs the game. And they are also see how other classes are performing, currently juggers are disgustingly overpowered with the gunslingers as well, and gunslinger is a ranged one, not a mele. while other ranged dps class like sorc/sages are at the botom of the dps list, and thats an issue.

 

I dotn give a damn thing about PVP. cos sorc/sages are basicly in pvp means you are a free kill for mele, and other overpowered ranged classes. This is an issue, and it is all leads back to the fact that sorc/sages are weak as hell.

 

Look up the statistics as well if you have doupts in my words. isntead just kepp saying teh same mindless BS about the sorcerers and sages are fine. What is fine about you are not accepted in any endcontet ops becasue your class is under performing?

 

Alot of people arguing about this issues in almost every chat ingame. And i have seen there are also alot of same topics as well on the forums, and they are right.

 

I have seen i have experianced what is wrong with the sorc/sages damages and thats not okay at all. You think thats fair and fine to see otehr ranged dps on teh deccent position on the list wihle yours are always at the bottom?

 

No thats not okay reguardless what Bioware thinks about the ranged dps classes. i dont think thats fine you are getting locked out from any group activity becasue of this sheet show what is going around with sorc/sages.

Here I fixed it for you so it's easier to read.

Here I fixed it for you so it's easier to read.

Awesome. I refused to read that earlier. Thank you.

Here's an idea OP:

BW needs to make 3 "cookie cutter" templates. One for Tank classes, one for DPS classes and one for Heal classes. Give each class a specific set of abilities, all having the exact same effect - all tanks get the abilities, all dps get the same abilities and all healers the same abilities. The only difference would be the animations and visual effects. Remove all utilities so there is no way to hybridize.

Next, change all armor and weapons to have fixed stats - color crystals become cosmetic. We can use the appearance designer tabs to change what characters look like, with the inclusion of weapon slots.

Finally give everyone a set health pool and ability pool.

No diversity, other than playing the 3 different roles, basically.

Now ask yourself this: How long would such a game keep my attention? For me, the second they do something like that would be the second I was out the door never to look back, except in disgust. And I'm already disgusted enough at the state of the game.

I thought the tooltips expressly said that this effect would only happen for you and not others that you bubble. Bubbling others should only absorb incoming damage to them, right?

See this again:

3 reasons some sorcs don't want someone else's bubble:

 

1. Lightning Barrier: Your Static Barrier crackles with electricity, shocking attackers for X damage when it absorbs direct damage to you. This effect cannot occur more than once each second.
    
   
2. Backlash: Static Barriers you place on yourself erupt in a flash of light when they end, blinding up to 8 nearby enemies for 3 seconds. This effect breaks from direct damage.
    
   
3. Corrupted Barrier: Your Static Barrier, Force Barrier, and Enduring Bastion heal you for 1% of your total health every second for as long as they last. This healing scales up to 4% with the charges of Enduring Bastion.
   

When other sorcerers "bubble" me it prevents me using my own awesome shield (I use Lightning barrier and Corrupted Barrier) for their crappy bubble. Even if I get rid of theirs I still have the enforced cooldown before I can re-shield myself to contend with It is very annoying!