Hey,

FIRST OFF: NERFING ION RAILGUN IS A GOOD THING

Okay, that's settled. I understand the reason to nerf the ion b/c it does so much devastation to so many things that having a minimum charge makes sense (after getting spanked by Alex on the pub side and playing with Inazuma on the imp side I tried it out and it definitely is a huge game changer b/c of the spammability of the ion railgun as well as the AOE, the regen stopping / removal of energy, etc etc). But the slug?

If I hit a scout with my slug (fully maxxed with no bypassing) then normally I dont one shot him. If I hit him from 11k as he's flying towards me, he's still able to close the distance (since most of the time 1 shot kills dont happen against geared ships). That leaves a tiny sliver of health which is enough to let him take over a node. The response would be "Go kill him then" but if I have to fully charge my slug to do that extra 50 or so damage, then the scout will have a huge amoung of time to evade me, and could potentially go beyond the range of the weapon n the time it takes to charge (depending on skill and abilities). Before I found out about the ion railgun, I would only use the slug, and I thought it made sense. You're a sniper that has a chargeable weapon. If you need to do a lot of damage, you charge it. If you need to finish off an enemy, you don't need to. I like that concept of the game because I can still take out a scout or a weak star fighter with a follow up tap. It's like doing a 2 shot in gears (melee first then shotty to the body). Some mechanics make sense, and this is one that I feel does. I'll await the release of the update to see for sure, but I know that the range of my blasters won't be far enough to finish the job. I kinda wish they'd just nerf the ion (although I did go 17k-25a-0d last night using the ion, but that only shows how OP this thing is. I've never gotten assist numbers like that using just the slug). Constructive thoughts / feedback? I only play GS so I don't really know how the scouts and star fighters feel

I'm pretty sure that you can fire with a minimal charge, but the debuffs will not apply unless you have a minimum threshold on that charge.

Ok, that would be a solid freakin compromise. Really hope that holds true

I'm pretty sure that you can fire with a minimal charge, but the debuffs will not apply unless you have a minimum threshold on that charge.

What's your evidence for this?

Without having been able to test this on the PTS, my reading of the patch notes was simply, "To fire any railgun, you need some level of minimum charge." It could be 10%. It could be 50%. It could be 70%. I am fairly sure it is not 100%. Was anyone ever able to test it?

Either way, my understanding is that if you get a shot off, it will do damage proportional to the charge, but all other effects will be delivered in full. If the "minimum charge to fire" is less than 30%, then Ion Spamming may still be a problem. Less of one, but still frustrating. If it's above 30%, then I think that's probably enough that Ion Railgun will be more manageable.

As for finishing off almost-dead Scouts, your Gunship also has a primary weapon. Burst Laser Cannons in particular are great for finishing off a Scout whose shields and hull were almost obliterated by your Slug Railgun shot.

I'm pretty sure that you can fire with a minimal charge, but the debuffs will not apply unless you have a minimum threshold on that charge.

That's not what I saw on the patch notes -- were they updated and/or do you have another source?

I am completely fine with minimum charge for slug. Compared to a proton torpedo, slug has twice as much damage, 30%-50% more range, no travel time, unlimited ammo (expect for weapon power draw, which is notable but not hugely significant), is significantly easier to hit with (due to lock-on mechanics), and is more versatile since you can release it early if necessary. In exchange, the railgun is vulnerable to evasion (which is much more common than missile locks -- everything that breaks a missile lock also evades a railgun, LOS works about equally well but favors breaking torpedo locks, and there's passive evasion) and has only 30% shield piercing instead of 100%. Overall, the win goes to slug.

This nerf addresses the versatility of railguns, but I still feel they're too powerful. Requiring railguns to have a full charge before firing would, imo, be a bigger step in the right direction, but still leaves some issues. For example, with any level of minimum charge, what do you do when the player runs out of weapon power before hitting the minimum? Currently, running out of every means the shot fires - will we see love tapping return with people purposefully draining all their energy so the game forces them to fire with no charge?

That's not what I saw on the patch notes -- were they updated and/or do you have another source?

 

I am completely fine with minimum charge for slug. Compared to a proton torpedo, slug has twice as much damage, 30%-50% more range, no travel time, unlimited ammo (expect for weapon power draw, which is notable but not hugely significant), is significantly easier to hit with (due to lock-on mechanics), and is more versatile since you can release it early if necessary. In exchange, the railgun is vulnerable to evasion (which is much more common than missile locks -- everything that breaks a missile lock also evades a railgun, LOS works about equally well but favors breaking torpedo locks, and there's passive evasion) and has only 30% shield piercing instead of 100%. Overall, the win goes to slug.

 

This nerf addresses the versatility of railguns, but I still feel they're too powerful. Requiring railguns to have a full charge before firing would, imo, be a bigger step in the right direction, but still leaves some issues. For example, with any level of minimum charge, what do you do when the player runs out of weapon power before hitting the minimum? Currently, running out of every means the shot fires - will we see love tapping return with people purposefully draining all their energy so the game forces them to fire with no charge?

Does the evasion stat get taken into account with missile lock on? Cuz it is a nightmare to land a slug hit on an evasion scout, or an evasion spec'd gs... And to respond to your last sentence, if the buffs dont get applied, would it matter? ESPECIALLY if the % charge has a correlation to the amount of energy drained

Minimum charge listed here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=715967

Last line of the "Ships and Hangar" portion.

Minimum charge listed here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=715967

Last line of the "Ships and Hangar" portion.

"•Railgun weapons now require a minimum charge before firing."

That doesn't say anything about when debuffs are or are not applied, or to what extent. Thus I'm going to assume that if the gun has enough charge (whatever amount that is) to fire, then the debuff / drain applied on hit is full.

"•Railgun weapons now require a minimum charge before firing."

 

That doesn't say anything about when debuffs are or are not applied, or to what extent. Thus I'm going to assume that if the gun has enough charge (whatever amount that is) to fire, then the debuff / drain applied on hit is full.

A minimum charge to fire is actually more stringent than I originally posted... not less.

If they need a minimum charge to fire thats anything more than 5%, then congrats bioware. Youve just destroyed Gunships.

Hardly... I'm hoping it is around 50% myself.

I've seen all ship types except Pike/Quell lead the boards. Do Flashfires/Stings lead a bit more often than others? Yes. Do Gunships lead their fair share? Yes. Do Rycers/Star Guards lead? Yes, but their unpopularity makes them lead less frequently.

Oh and I am talking about Kills/Assists/Damage leaders, not just kills.

Does the evasion stat get taken into account with missile lock on? Cuz it is a nightmare to land a slug hit on an evasion scout, or an evasion spec'd gs...

The evasion stat does not interact with lock-on missiles, torpedoes, etc. in any way. It does interact with rocket pods, which are "dead-fire" weapons, similar to how lasers work.

And to respond to your last sentence, if the buffs dont get applied, would it matter? ESPECIALLY if the % charge has a correlation to the amount of energy drained

There's no evidence that the debuff will not be applied in that situation, nor that the debuff will scale with charge level.

There's also no evidence that situation would come up. It all depends on how BioWare implements this change - it's entirely possible there will also be a minimum power level requirement to begin the charge (in which case love tapping only happens if you're getting hit by power drain yourself).

A minimum charge to fire is actually more stringent than I originally posted... not less.

That's true, unless the railgun continues to auto-fire at zero weapon power (thus bypassing the minimum charge).

If they need a minimum charge to fire thats anything more than 5%, then congrats bioware. Youve just destroyed Gunships.

It would take a lot more than that to destroy gunships. Slugs are still strictly superior to protons except against targets with enormous shields and no missile break (so... bombers that you forgot to hit with ion) and/or a certain amount of lag that makes railgun shots nearly impossible but allows for missile locks (an extremely niche case).

Scouts can do both of those things, and get to 41% passive evasion for the 14 seconds that distortion isn't up.

Railguns are better than missiles, sure. that's because missiles are properly considered a true secondary weapon, whereas the entire purpose of a gunship is the railgun.

Scouts can do both of those things, and get to 41% passive evasion for the 14 seconds that distortion isn't up.

Scouts can drain a target of all energy and do 1600 damage non-crit from 15 km? Please, please tell me how to do this, because I have a hard enough time doing 1600 damage on a crit from 700 m, and I don't get 30% shield penetration and 100% armor penetration.

Railguns are better than missiles, sure. that's because missiles are properly considered a true secondary weapon, whereas the entire purpose of a gunship is the railgun.

That's absolutely true. I don't think it justifies how powerful railguns are, though.

As a matter of fact -- completely ignoring the mechanics of railguns for a moment here -- I don't like that the gunship is all about the railgun. Even if railguns were perfectly balanced and no one complained about them ever, gunships would be a one-trick pony. It's frankly less interesting to me than the design of any other ship.

Of course, snipers in every twitch game have had that issue. I don't think that justifies anything, though.

Scouts can drain a target of all energy and do 1600 damage non-crit from 15 km? Please, please tell me how to do this, because I have a hard enough time doing 1600 damage on a crit from 700 m, and I don't get 30% shield penetration and 100% armor penetration.

Reading comprehension much?

Railguns are better than missiles, sure. that's because missiles are properly considered a true secondary weapon, whereas the entire purpose of a gunship is the railgun.

i think the railguns are listed as 'secondary' weapons so co-pilot skills like Concentrated Fire won't affect them.

i'm all for a min charge, even at 50% it's still fine.

personally, I think damage/debuff should scale with charge with the top 50% of the damage/debuff coming from the last 10% of charge. so, at 50% charge, you do 10% damage/debuff . at 90% charge, you do 50% damage/debuff at 95% charge, 75% damage/debuff , 100% charge, 100% damage/debuff.

THAT would FORCE teams to support their gunships rather than a lone gunship running riot over a battlefield (with Ion Railgun abuse, i've nailed three defenders, three turrets and capped the node more than once).

Reading comprehension much?

Were you referring to barrel roll and distortion field? My apologies. I was confused because you didn't quote anything and the remainder of your post discussed railguns, so I wrongly assumed you were referring to the OP. Also, I am somewhat biased because I don't use either barrel roll or 6 second distortion field on my scouts, so my brain just didn't offer the combination as a possible discussion topic. Again, my apologies.

If they need a minimum charge to fire thats anything more than 5%, then congrats bioware. Youve just destroyed Gunships.

Yeah, because anything other than a 0.15 second charge time requirement before firing would ruin gunships in every concievable way.

Railguns are "secondary" weapons because they are used with the right mouse button. I'm pretty puzzled about concentrated fire not working tbh.

Concentrated fire works for primary weapons, not secondary weapons. Besides, it's not like secondary weapons need the increased crit (except with targeting telemetry, because it comes with the opportunity cost of blaster overcharge).

Yes, railguns need the extra crit. The issue is simple: It's a copilot ability. It's worthless for gunships because it doesn't work with their actual weapon.

In fact, most copilot abilities are worthless for gunships. Bypass will still be the only "choice" even after the nerf. I'd like to see a field of actual possible choices. There's nothing out of line with +36% crit chance to a couple shots, certainly not if the crit chance is fine on blaster overcharge + burst laser cannon.

I just want to ask, how much is "minimum"? is it 5 percent, 20 percent, 50 percent? just want to know, the pts almost has no one on so I can not test this myself so anyone know, the patch notes are not very specific.

Nobody knows... even if someone did some testing on the PTS they have been known to change things before final release.