What really hurts GSF is this should be a flight sim and its not! It is a complete joke hence the reason no one plays it and I am offended it shares the PVP que bot! Tie fighter vs xwing, wing commander sims 20 years old WERE MORE FUN TO PLAY!

the solo reason it is in game is a lame attempt to sucker people into thinking its actually a space sim when in reality its a complete joke!

Except that I queue solo ~90% of the time. Maybe even up to 95%. You may not be specifically referencing me, but the way it's phrased makes it sound like you are specifically referencing me. If that's the case, then this comment is 1000% wrong.

It's the colloquial you, but good for you. The only groups I participate in are the ones where I'm invited. I never go asking for a group in the GSF channel.

That very well may be true. So how do you propose we stop that from happening? We can't ban people from the queue. We can't force them to take those ships off their bar. What is an actual punishment that I can employ against a teammate I think is actively participating in this? Start suiciding?

Some people have been doing that lately. It really pisses off the stacked team. My suicides are all accidental, so it isn't me doing it.

Except that even if it were in our power, and a part of me is very glad it isn't... How do you propose we "self-police"? As I said, the bottom line is that we can't.

That's just an excuse. Plenty of good players self-police. Just not enough of them.

That's true only of the opposition. Anyone on your team can see what is typed into Ops chat. And again, me getting on an Imperium isn't going to change the outcome of an extremely lopsided match. I, personally, do it anyway. But I can't say I particularly enjoy flying that ship, and I'm not going to just tell someone to get on another ship in the effort of "self-policing", as all that does is create bad blood. I'll sometimes say at the beginning something to the effect of "Looks like an easy win. Time to bring out the Strikes!" But that's all the actual control I have. I can't help it if others on my team want to go all out. And you know what the most common response to me suggesting we should back off is?

 

Some variation of, "They've done it to us. They deserve it." Now how am I to constructively argue with that when it's largely the newer guys on my own team taking advantage of the fact that there's no good opposition?

Well, that's their problem. But anyway, I'm not concerned about the new players. They aren't going to be able to take advantage without help from people like you anyway. They can just fly to the best of their ability and if that results in a win, good for them. It's the mastered ship people that are the issue.

When there's no competition, I usually just stop after a game or 2.

Why not switch factions?

What really hurts GSF is this should be a flight sim and its not! It is a complete joke hence the reason no one plays it and I am offended it shares the PVP que bot! Tie fighter vs xwing, wing commander sims 20 years old WERE MORE FUN TO PLAY!

the solo reason it is in game is a lame attempt to sucker people into thinking its actually a space sim when in reality its a complete joke!

Uhhhh nope. Everyone knows this is an arcade shooter, not a space sim. If you came in thinking it was a space sim then you're just fooling yourself and now you feel the need to find something to blame other than yourself.

Well, the only way that the undermanned side can punish the offenders is to exit the battle en masse, which ends the wargame.

No offence but that may be one of the most ridiculous solutions I've heard. If the stacked side is already winning, and the losing side leaves, all you're doing is having other pilots backfill into a losing match with no guarantees that the backfill will be veterans, while those who didn't quit are stuck with fending off superior pilots AND numbers. Pilots who rage quit also gain 0 req, so that entire match will be a waste of time for them. And not even a 'I got smacked around for 10 minutes and got 500 ship req for it' waste of time but a 'i got smacked around for 5 minutes, decided to "teach them a lesson" and leave and got nothing out of it' waste of time.

If the wargames does somehow end prematurely due to lack of pilots then it still counts as a win for the other team. Your suggestion only punishes the losing side, and the stacked 5 man team gets slightly lower req gain and shorter matches.

Only playing with four/eight man groups comprised of people with multiple mastered ships, often using voice chat to help coordinate. That's all fine and good when you come up against another team that is that stacked and also using voice chat, but there are way more matches that are not that way.

 

But people say "I want to play with my friends." Fine, you want to play with your friends. Here's a simple solution that I use when I'm on the winning side of a clownstomping. I get in my worst ship and fly. Gives me a chance to earn more requisition than I would otherwise earn in that ship because the majority of requisition comes from winning and double requisition and I can try to improve my skills on that ship in relative peace. Also, I tend to only target people that I either recognize or that have demonstrated in the match that they are good pilots.

You do realise that most veterans already have fully mastered all their ships right? Even if they all jump on T2 strikes, they will still dominate the match. I fly a sting with rapids, sab probe, bo, freq cap and d-shields when I'm in a clown stomp. Does the match suddenly become balanced? No, because I can still out fly rookie pilots and their half mastered t2 scouts.

[quote=ShallowHal;8519279

That's just an excuse. Plenty of good players self-police. Just not enough of them.

Why not switch factions?

So what? See someone who is stomping on rookies, switch factions, hopefully land a match against them and concentrate on shooting them down? Then switch back and say 'I hope you learned your lesson?' Depending on the skill of that particular pilot and how well he or she is known, it's either gonna blow up into a personal dick measuring contest, or if you are particularly successful multiple times, the person is just gonna quit or switch factions and nothing gets solved.

Ok I have had enough of these threads were someone tries to guilt everyone else into something that they think will improve the culture of the game.

I have been flying since the beginning of GSF and have seen everything and anything that has to do with this game period. I have been stomped and did the stomping. I am not proud of getting stomped and I am not proud to stomp either. I know a lot of pilots who have done the same even though they have posted otherwise. If you feel this last sentence applies to you it probably does.

Now off my soapbox, nothing anyone say's can be done to help this game in anyway. Just play it as you see fit, that's all anyone can do. Play to win the game and find challenges were you can.

That's just an excuse. Plenty of good players self-police. Just not enough of them.

No, it's reality. Look, I may either agree or disagree with you on the point that not enough players show self-restraint. But that's an internal decision. The broader point I was trying to make, however, is that there is no decent mechanism for the general population to police itself. If someone "offends" on this "rule", there's no way we, as a community, can collectively put the offender in jail (or timeout, or whatever). There is no effective means to enact punishment on others. Believe me, I'm not arguing that we should have that power, because I absolutely don't think we should.

But GSF lacks what in forums would be moderators. There's no impartial judge to take your case to. It's a friggin' game. Either play it because you enjoy it, or don't because you don't.

Well, that's their problem. But anyway, I'm not concerned about the new players. They aren't going to be able to take advantage without help from people like you anyway. They can just fly to the best of their ability and if that results in a win, good for them. It's the mastered ship people that are the issue.

But I believe you are concerned about them. This entire thread was started largely because of concern over the effect this type of behavior has on new players. If it's just me in these games, I can pull back and let them fight it out. But if there's someone else in that game, on my side, who just stays in their gunship, and racks up 25 kills... There's absolutely nothing I can do, as a teammate of that person, to force them to stop shooting at new players and killing them. And the ultimate point of every post I've made in this thread... I do not want to be tasked with that. I want no part of telling someone how they are allowed to have fun in a game.

But on top of that... You're seriously willing to take the attitude of "that's their problem" when it comes to newer players who know a little bit about how to fly beating the snot out of people fresh out of boot? It might not be like the pros vs the JV team, but it might very well be the Varsity team beating the snot out of the pee-wees. How is it only a problem in the case of vets/aces and groups? I'm sorry, but I call BS here. If it's a problem at the higher levels, it's a problem every single time it happens. Do you not see the comparison and how it seems a lot like extremely selective enforcement?

Why not switch factions?

Maybe I don't see anyone on either side that's worth fighting, in which case, whichever faction I'm on simply wins. Maybe I've got my daily, and didn't really feel all that much like flying anyway. Maybe it's a nice day outside, and I decide to go play basketball. Maybe because I would rather go watch a movie. Or raid. Or do ground PVP. Or go play The Witcher 3. Or read a book. My life doesn't revolve around GSF and making sure the factions are balanced at all times...

Good grief... Here I am reading and responding to this stupid thread again... I seriously need to just quit engaging. Nothing will come out of this. Sorry for the bump, forums...

The broader point I was trying to make, however, is that there is no decent mechanism for the general population to police itself. I(

The theme of this thread has never been about policing, but trying to come to a consensus as to what the best course of action we could take as individuals.

Get 2 people in a room, and you will get 3 differing opinions.

Consensus is BS. This boils down to one person telling another what to do. And I want no part of that when the area of debate is fundamentally personal entertainment.

Get 2 people in a room, and you will get 3 differing opinions.

 

Consensus is BS. This boils down to one person telling another what to do. And I want no part of that when the area of debate is fundamentally personal entertainment.

Not a fan of democracy I take it. In fact it now boggles me why you participate in a "forum" at all.

Not a fan of democracy I take it. In fact it now boggles me why you participate in a "forum" at all.

Are you seriously suggesting that we vote a set of rules to dictate HOW SOMEONE IS ALLOWED TO GET THEIR JOLLIES IN A VIDEO GAME?! You, sir, have won the troll award for today.

Not that it matters, but you're right. I'm much more a fan of a representative republic, although I suppose I prefer democratic mob rule to direct dictatorship or some form of oligarchy or theocracy. But the concept of a republic and how it's different from a direct democracy probably further boggles your little mind. That's OK, though, I'll help you follow this GSF democracy exercise to its logical conclusion:

Assume there's a "vote" for how to treat "n00b" teams in "roflstomps". Well, the first thing we will have to do will be to define, what exactly is a "n00b" team. If Drako, or you, or I start a new toon, and we just have starter stock ships, are we "n00bs"? If not, why? What exactly is the definition of "n00b" for this exercise? Should we go back to the mob and ask them for a definition (You know, for consensus, which I'm sure we'll get)? Then we need to define what exactly a "roflstomp" is. OK. So after possibly lots of votes, lots of disagreement, and lots of people who are still upset because they're in the minority, we'll have our definitions, and we can tell those who are of little enlightenment that it's better this way, because majority. So, we have this perfectly functioning little GSF democracy, where everyone gets a vote, and we have our little rules that all these little people need to follow. They're most likely ambiguous definitions to concrete rules, but whatever, that won't stop us! We in the enlightened majority know way better, right? #WINNING!

So now that we have this perfect little democratically voted on set of concrete rules all set up... Wait for it, because here's where it really falls apart. Completely on its own. This is really, REALLY going to blow your mind.

Someone doesn't fall in line, and just goes out in their best ships and destroys defined "n00bs" in "roflstomps". How exactly, is the majority to enforce our democratic dictum? Wait... you mean we don't have an enforcement agency? There aren't GSF police to enforce our mob rule rules? Well, that's sad, because now we can't break up Drako's team because #fairness. Oh the humanity! There's someone out there... An entire TEAM of people out there... And they don't agree to follow our perfect little democratic rules! The gall! I mean, they must be *gasp*... anarchists.

Without a sufficient enforcement agency that has the public trust, you will quickly find that your little consensus here is an entirely pointless exercise. This entire experiment falls flat on its face right at the beginning because there's no force behind your little dictates.

Aside from the fact that you're seriously suggesting that we vote on how people are allowed to have fun... Have I missed anything? Do I have this about right?

Seriously, bro... Kiss off with that BS.

To be honest, there's no way a "consensus" could be done, only people choosing on their own to not be ***** in a game. If enough people choose that, then the game might actually be fun most of the time.

Otherwise...

Enjoy the queues. If they get worse, then congratulations: Your side won the war. You've convinced the enemy that you cannot be defeated and they've surrendered. Have a nice triumph through Kaas City or Coruscant, and ignore the guy whispering you are mortal.

Whoever thought this thread should die hasn't been reading the latest comments...

Seriously though, just let it rest. This isn't gonna change anything, and talking about it only awakens hidden demons.

I do think everyone knows that you can't dictate gsf rules via a Democratic vote (or I hope so). Isn't it obvious that you need brawn to back up the brain?

If someone has a problem with the way someone else plays, let them message that person in-game. If they think that peer pressure will help, by all means let them call in their friends to back them up. How about leaving the dirty laundry at home though? It helps no one hanging out here...

Please don't reply with "we need to discuss this"... I think this post has made it quite clear a discussion is going nowhere fast (or at all).

As a matter of fact, you can just not reply at all.

Whoever thought this thread should die hasn't been reading the latest comments...

 

 

Seriously though, just let it rest. This isn't gonna change anything, and talking about it only awakens hidden demons.

I do think everyone knows that you can't dictate gsf rules via a Democratic vote (or I hope so). Isn't it obvious that you need brawn to back up the brain?

 

If someone has a problem with the way someone else plays, let them message that person in-game. If they think that peer pressure will help, by all means let them call in their friends to back them up. How about leaving the dirty laundry at home though? It helps no one hanging out here...

 

Please don't reply with "we need to discuss this"... I think this post has made it quite clear a discussion is going nowhere fast (or at all).

 

As a matter of fact, you can just not reply at all.

Yeah talking about the best way to play would never work. I mean we would never talk months upon end about what the best setups for each ship is and then get it stickied and then link it to everyone as the first thing they should read. Nah we wouldn't bother doing that. That think tanking stuff never works.

Talking about suggested ship builds and flying tips is definitely the same thing as talking about an enforceable code of conduct.

Also, I can tell you for a fact that many people I fly with have never even been to the forums, and don't know about the guides...

Talking about suggested ship builds and flying tips is definitely the same thing as talking about an enforceable code of conduct.

 

Also, I can tell you for a fact that many people I fly with have never even been to the forums, and don't know about the guides...

And the ultimate point of every post I've made in this thread... I do not want to be tasked with that. I want no part of telling someone how they are allowed to have fun in a game.

Well, in every winning stomp match I participate in, I'm going to ask that people not stomp them when it's obvious they have no chance. Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't care. When they don't care, I may or may not make a comment about their sportsmanship. After all, nobody can force me not to.

But on top of that... You're seriously willing to take the attitude of "that's their problem" when it comes to newer players who know a little bit about how to fly beating the snot out of people fresh out of boot?

If they're in a weak or stock ship, yeah it's the new player's problem. There's a big difference between stomping them in a mastered ship and stomping them in a stock ship.

But on top of that... You're seriously willing to take the attitude of "that's their problem in the case of vets/aces and groups? I'm sorry, but I call BS here. If it's a problem at the higher levels, it's a problem every single time it happens. Do you not see the comparison and how it seems a lot like extremely selective enforcement?

I'm sorry, but I can't take responsibility for your lack of reading comprehension. I've stated my position quite clearly. If you wish to misconstrue it, it's your own problem.

Good grief... Here I am reading and responding to this stupid thread again... I seriously need to just quit engaging. Nothing will come out of this. Sorry for the bump, forums...

By the way, I incorporate your philosophy in a match yesterday. Since nobody can stop anybody from enjoying the game how they want, I enjoyed the game by making a special effort to kill your ship as many times as possible in a game where we clearly had the better team. I know you didn't mind it because nobody should tell me that that's not a valid way to enjoy the game.

Hopefully you enjoyed all the other activities you engaged in yesterday. All people should seek as much happiness as they can find.

Get 2 people in a room, and you will get 3 differing opinions.

 

Consensus is BS. This boils down to one person telling another what to do. And I want no part of that when the area of debate is fundamentally personal entertainment.

That seems like an obvious point, but people seem to be going out of their way to pretend that it isn't.

Who said anything about enforcing? Leaders lead, followers follow.

Well said. And there are a lot of leaders on both sides.

My larger point (not that certain people care to actually take the time to comprehend it) is this. Events like Solo Queue and Stock Saturdays are a heck of a lot of fun. Much more fun than a game full of mastered ships vs unmastered ships. And I think that a lot of other people find it fun too. I get the impression that for some people, it's just another way for them to say "I'm still better than the rest of you", which to me utterly goes against the point of the events in the first place, unless that was the point all along. But regardless of what the point is, I and a lot of other people are having a lot of fun in those events. I would like to see more of them. I think they're good for the community, I think they're good for creating an inviting space for new players to try out the game, and frankly, they're just more fun. And anything that creates more fun is inherently good as far as I'm concerned.

By the way, I incorporate your philosophy in a match yesterday. Since nobody can stop anybody from enjoying the game how they want, I enjoyed the game by making a special effort to kill your ship as many times as possible in a game where we clearly had the better team. I know you didn't mind it because nobody should tell me that that's not a valid way to enjoy the game.

 

Hopefully you enjoyed all the other activities you engaged in yesterday. All people should seek as much happiness as they can find.

Hah. Well, I can't speak for nyghtrunner, but you're making a "logical connection" without any logic. Unless I missed some crucial post here, I don't think he ever said that new pilots don't mind being stomped because nobody can tell the vets that's not a valid way to play.

Also, if you really did enjoy yourself, congratulations. If you believe that targeting people like him will solve the GSF problems mentioned here, go on. Please post the results on the forums.