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DPS Mercs SUCK.


Delmyr's Avatar


Delmyr
09.01.2013 , 07:04 AM | #181
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
Pyro sucks at max level. Which is all that matters...
Why is that? ATM comparisons only show pyro down in dps by only 200 dps. What happens to make them "suck" at higher level?
I see the problem here. Hm, yes. You are suffering from No Challenge Withdrawal. I'm sorry but there is no cure other than getting a full team premade to form a wedge to annihilate those fleeing from the inevitable faceroll.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
09.01.2013 , 08:37 AM | #182
Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr View Post
Why is that? ATM comparisons only show pyro down in dps by only 200 dps. What happens to make them "suck" at higher level?
What happens is that they get to access their whole tree.

And so does Arsenal.

The option is to have:

Higher solo damage
Taking less damage from everything
Having a longer Hydraulic Overrides
Having a bigger knockback
Having a root
Having a reliable, good snare
Having a faster CC break
Having a faster/instant Healing Scan
Having a faster and double use Power Surge
Having a more damaging Enet
Having more damage on every energy/kinetic AOE because of 35% armour penetration by default

And... to not have any of that...
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

Delmyr's Avatar


Delmyr
09.01.2013 , 05:09 PM | #183
On the other side of that, I have much more mobility, a snare that can be on the target for 2 sec every 6, a damage shield that can do a lot of damage, have DoTs that can ruin a stealth class's day, and a much more powerful missile blast. With my extra mobility if I need a healing scan I am probably in need of an actual healer.

Just a list of pros doesn't give me any sense of what makes them better. I was kind of hoping for an analysis.
I see the problem here. Hm, yes. You are suffering from No Challenge Withdrawal. I'm sorry but there is no cure other than getting a full team premade to form a wedge to annihilate those fleeing from the inevitable faceroll.

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
09.01.2013 , 06:23 PM | #184
You're happy with Pyro at level 33 which is indeed better at level 33 than Arsenal.

Best way for you to see how they match up is to level to 55, I won't spend time trying to convert someone against what they think without them actually playing what I'm playing.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
09.02.2013 , 12:34 AM | #185
Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr View Post
On the other side of that, I have much more mobility, a snare that can be on the target for 2 sec every 6, a damage shield that can do a lot of damage, have DoTs that can ruin a stealth class's day, and a much more powerful missile blast. With my extra mobility if I need a healing scan I am probably in need of an actual healer.

Just a list of pros doesn't give me any sense of what makes them better. I was kind of hoping for an analysis.
Like I said all that matters is performance at Max level. Comparing classes or specs during the level process is silly
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
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Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
09.12.2013 , 12:50 AM | #186
Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr View Post
On the other side of that, I have much more mobility
Much more mobility? Well sort of. You still need to stand still if you want to try and proc Rail Shot. Even if you proc Rail Shot occasionally, your sustained damage in PvP is the lowest of any dps AC in the game. Without Rail Shot procs it is even worse.

Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr View Post
a snare that can be on the target for 2 sec every 6
The Merc Pyro snare is the weakest (30%) snare in the game. Every class the Merc Pyro would like to kite has a stronger snare than the Merc Pyro has. So the Merc Pyro can never win the snare game. Which makes the Merc Pyro an incredibly poor kiter. In contrast the Merc Arsenal is a much better kiting platform since it has a root (Merc Pyro has none), a stronger knockback and a longer lasting sprint. All this despite the Merc Arsenal being supposedly the less mobile platform.

Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr View Post
a damage shield that can do a lot of damage, have DoTs that can ruin a stealth class's day, and a much more powerful missile blast.
The damage shield is nice except it is up only 15 seconds out of every 120. Most opponents know to stun/mezz a Pyro when that shield is up. So your actual uptime on Pyro Shield is well under 10%. Again, contrast this to Merc Arsenal who can easily get 20% uptime on their Shield.

Yes, the DoTs are nice against stealthers. But Lethality snipers/operatives have the same advantage AND are much more powerful DoT platforms. And have better survivability. Finally, I must remark that against stealth dps at least, I really don't feel threatened when I am on my Merc Arsenal. The Merc Arsenal is gimped because it must use a series of its defensive abilities to achieve the result that other classes can achieve with a single defensive ability. But against stealthers, every one of those weak abilities results in a 1-2 second delay for the stealth dps. And stealth dps hate delays. Merc Pyro just doesn't have as many defensive abilities and thus is much more likely to be caught without that same delay ability. Which against a good stealth dps means you probably die.

Finally is Missile Blast really that much more powerful for Merc Pyro than for Merc Arsenal? IMO it needs to be more powerful. Missile Blast should trigger CGC on each target, just as Flame Sweep does for PT Pyro. Then it would be much more powerful....

Honestly, I'd love for Merc Pyro to be viable. But it's just not. It's clearly the worst AC in the game for PvP, and arguably for PvE as well.

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
09.13.2013 , 01:39 PM | #187
Pyro is going to suck in PvP as long as you can cleanse the DoTs.

Pyro should have the mobility that Arsenal has (via HO talent), and Arsenal should just be less vulnerable to interrupts and be more stationary. Its not that I WANT to be more stationary, but really, mobility should be for Pyro. (FYI I would cry if I lost my current HO as Arsenal.)

Pyro should be running around DoT'ing people, and Arsenal should play similar to a sniper in that you try to stay back and unload.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
09.13.2013 , 01:49 PM | #188
Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr View Post
Why is that? ATM comparisons only show pyro down in dps by only 200 dps. What happens to make them "suck" at higher level?
The fact that your damage output seems like it stays at level 33 even when you hit 55.

At 55, Arsenal gets one of the hardest hitting attacks in the game. At 55, Pyro gets a worthless attack. When an Arsenal Merc hits you with a Heatseeker, you know it. When a Pyro throws a Thermal Detonator at you, you also know it but you have 3 seconds to pop any defensive CD to mitigate a good chunk of the damage. Oh and then you can cleanse it (I believe) to nullify the other half of the damage.

When I get hit with a Thermal, I pop Chaff Flare which negates the next incoming attack (the burst portion, at least). Then I cleanse the DoT to nullify the other half of the damage. Compare that to a Heatseeker which can wreck people for 6-8k, or even up to 10k+ with no warning.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS