Cant find a thread on this so here goes.

I have noticed many many many times in pvp, I hit my force wave ability to knock someone back. Because of the animation time with the jump into the air smackdown, Other classes with a more instant animation can negate my knockback. Not only can they essentially interrupt my knockback with a knockback of their own. But my Force wave is consumed and put onto cooldown while they were not even knocked back at all.

Obviously that is because the CD starts at the beginning of the animation, but it is really frustrating when a good player of another class can simply negate my knockback with their own. Or if we both get the same idea at the same time, his wins and mine is wasted.

Annoying in a plain 1v1 on flat ground. Beyond annoying when you are crossing a bridge on Voidstar, jump into the air to knock them off the edge and have a powertech knock you off the edge, without being knocked off themselves. Even though they hit their knockback 1 second after yours.

I am all for cool animations, like Project and force wave etc... But if you are going to give everyone a knockback to level the pvp playing field, you need to make all the knockbacks instant, it is just that simple.

hmm, well not sure who the knockbacks are from then. I thought it was a bounty/trooper looking class doing the instant knockbacks. Whoever it is, it is damn frustrating.

Also, whether it happens coincidentally or not, to lose your knockback effect while still putting it on CD is a little broken. At least give the spell a 19 second CD where the CD only starts when you land and actually knock someone back. You can be stunned, Harpooned, Knocked back, flashbanged, etc... And it interrupts the knockback without refunding the spell. Again, what is the point of an instant spell if it can be interrupted? Especially interrupted and put on CD.

hmm, well not sure who the knockbacks are from then. I thought it was a bounty/trooper looking class doing the instant knockbacks. Whoever it is, it is damn frustrating.

 

Also, whether it happens coincidentally or not, to lose your knockback effect while still putting it on CD is a little broken. At least give the spell a 19 second CD where the CD only starts when you land and actually knock someone back. You can be stunned, Harpooned, Knocked back, flashbanged, etc... And it interrupts the knockback without refunding the spell. Again, what is the point of an instant spell if it can be interrupted? Especially interrupted and put on CD.

Commandos and their mirror have an instant KB. So yes, BH/Troopers do have one.

Commandos and their mirror have an instant KB. So yes, BH/Troopers do have one.

Great thanks. I mistakenly thought that because the consular gets it as a class skill, the trooper does too. Didn't think that it would be an adv class specific KB. Makes sense though.

Operative and gunslinger have it too. (When in cover)

Actually, the only issue I have is when a guy is waiting on a rafter ahead of the ball carrier for a pass, it is a good idea to use a KB and kick him off. It is rare but has happened that I jump on the rafter and others get their KB off and kick me off before i can kick them off.

It is good play on their part so I don't begrudge it.

I have this happen ALL THE TIME in every WZ. It drives me nuts. In Voidstar, I hit Force Wave to interrupt 3 people disarminng bomb. Someone on the other side hits their instant KB and overrides mine. In Alderaan, I use it interrupt 3 people capping a turret. Instant KB ovverides mine and turret is capped. In Huttball, this happens literally EVERY game. I try to KB the ball carrier into fire and ends up being me in the fire.

Our aoe KB has the shortest KB distance and the longest delay of any class that has KB. I'm not sure if our mirror classes has the same issue.

Would be an issue if inquisitors didn't have a similar animation. But they do have a very similar animation, so this means that it's not an imbalance between factions. It would be hard to argue that, compared to other classes, consulars/inquisitors are at an overall disadvantage when it comes to utility in PvP.

Yes, this happens to me; more frustrating is when my KB doesn't work even though the opponent doesn't have full resolve or other immunity to cc.

Operative and gunslinger have it too. (When in cover)

 

Actually, the only issue I have is when a guy is waiting on a rafter ahead of the ball carrier for a pass, it is a good idea to use a KB and kick him off. It is rare but has happened that I jump on the rafter and others get their KB off and kick me off before i can kick them off.

 

It is good play on their part so I don't begrudge it.

No, good play on their part would be hitting their button first. Running around me while I'm in the air doing my KB so they get knocked somewhere else is just a flaw in my "instant" ability. It wouldn't be so bad if the cooldown were also not consumed.

Happens to me at least once a wz. Super annoying in huttball. Try to clear a ramp and doh...

Sorcs beat me on it all the time yet I see their animation start after mine...

Related note, does anyone else feel our kb has the least distance. A sorc or merc or jugg will knock me like 30m away. Mine moves them maybe 10... usually less.

Happens to me at least once a wz. Super annoying in huttball. Try to clear a ramp and doh...

 

Sorcs beat me on it all the time yet I see their animation start after mine...

 

Related note, does anyone else feel our kb has the least distance. A sorc or merc or jugg will knock me like 30m away. Mine moves them maybe 10... usually less.

Ye that has a bit more to do with lag, I have no probs with lag based "beating me to the punch" because in reality, the other player hit their button before mine.

I have a problem with sprinting onto the bridge in voidstar, to knock 2 or 3 characters off the edge. Time my KB to perfection, around 7 or 8 yards away (which we have to because only a perfect, perpendicular KB will knock them off), then just before I land, get knocked off myself because the opponent has a more instant knockback than mine.

I am not falling to my death because of better player skill, I am falling to my death because his knockback hits me further and activates the moment his button is pressed. I get knocked off the bridge at a 45 degree angle. 0.2 second before my FW lands, from the centre of the bridge.

I just feel like the knockbacks should be balanced is all. Not identical, just balanced. If your knockback is more instant than mine, then you only knock back a short distance ( like the current sage one does) If your animation takes a little longer, surely you are applying more power to your knockback, therefore you should get the longer knockback distance.

Currently sages have the worst of both worlds. Shortest knockback distance and longest animation which leads to all the issues outlined already.

Currently sages have the worst of both worlds. Shortest knockback distance and longest animation which leads to all the issues outlined already.

Yea, it's not great for shadows either +1 this.

Would be an issue if inquisitors didn't have a similar animation. But they do have a very similar animation, so this means that it's not an imbalance between factions. It would be hard to argue that, compared to other classes, consulars/inquisitors are at an overall disadvantage when it comes to utility in PvP.

 

Yes, this happens to me; more frustrating is when my KB doesn't work even though the opponent doesn't have full resolve or other immunity to cc.

inquisitors animation is much faster

inquisitors animation is much faster

Just spent some time now timing the difference. Seems about 0.14 to 0.2 difference, with Sage landing around the 1.04 to 1.13 range, while sorc lands on about the 0.9 to 0.95 range.

If you are wondering why the individual ranges are more varied, the sorc animation is crisper, giving you a much more definite moment when the knockback occurs. The sage animation is a little more fuzzy around the edges if you know what I mean.

That being said, I am not too phased in this instance by difference. Sure to get exact mirror you could speed up the sage animation by 15%, They both jump the same height. The sorc just seems to use force to accelerate at the ground where the sage seems to float down all nice and gingerly.

I am slightly less worried by that difference than I am by the weakness of their abilities as a whole. Shortest knockback range, with longest animation of all the classes is a little weak in my opinion. There are plenty of other things to be fixed first to get the game working nicely. But I think for pvp balance, this is a factor to be considered at some point. If we have a long animation, give us a longer knockback distance to show the amount of effort and force we are applying by jumping up. How rubbish is it that a scrawny little sniper with a flick of her fingernail can knock 5 people back further than a jedi master that gathers the force beneath them and does a big jumping knockback... doesn't make much sense really.

I suppose the sniper must be in cover to use it so it it must be boosted due to that fact. Fair enough, but snipers are still going to be in cover 95% of the time anyway because that is where their dmg comes from.

Actually this happens with all abilities. I can start a Mortar Volley, and before the first shot gets off (as bugged as it is), i get pushed, no shot fired, CD wasted. Its the same with all.

Some Pve - Mobs also specialize in a Knockback, that interrups near-instant Abilities, like Stockstrike, before it hits.

It is worth noting that Snipers (not Operatives) get the KB from cover.

Using it from cover makes the utility you are discussing much more difficult to execute.

Juggernauts have a single target KB (Force Push) on a 1 minute cooldown.

Marauders do not have a KB at all.

Mercenaries have to spend talent points to enhance their AoE KB to get the optimal KB distance you seem to envy. Their KB is limited to 5 targets, but has a built in slow effect.

*Powertechs do get a KB immunity ability which could be triggered to nullify a SI KB if they were quick enough.

The SI AoE KB has no target limit and with Sorceror / Sage talents has an immobilize effect.

Assassins / Shadows do not get any enhancement for their ability though.

3 of the 8 ACs have no KB ability (Marauder, Operative, Powertech) and would gladly accept yours if you don't like it.

It is worth noting that Snipers (not Operatives) get the KB from cover.

Using it from cover makes the utility you are discussing much more difficult to execute.

 

Juggernauts have a single target KB (Force Push) on a 1 minute cooldown.

Marauders do not have a KB at all.

 

Mercenaries have to spend talent points to enhance their AoE KB to get the optimal KB distance you seem to envy. Their KB is limited to 5 targets, but has a built in slow effect.

*Powertechs do get a KB immunity ability which could be triggered to nullify a SI KB if they were quick enough.

 

The SI AoE KB has no target limit and with Sorceror / Sage talents has an immobilize effect.

Assassins / Shadows do not get any enhancement for their ability though.

 

3 of the 8 ACs have no KB ability (Marauder, Operative, Powertech) and would gladly accept yours if you don't like it.

But those classes have distance closers instead. They are designed to stay up close and personal, so KB's make no sense.

Thanks for the info on the talented stuff though. helps to know. I think the issue for me is less about distance and everything, and more about having my CD used up without actually having knocked anyone back, even though it is an instant ability. I have been stunned, flashbanged, choked and knocked back all in the middle of doing the animation, of an instant cast ability. That is a little silly as an implementation really. You are not meant to be able to interrupt an instant cast ability after it has been activated, that is why it is called instant cast.

I deal solution would be to somehow refund you the knockback if you were interrupted in the middle of the animation. Its bad form to unfairly punish any ability just because of its animation.

@ to the poster 2 above regarding mortar. I see where you are coming from with that, but all of the channeled aoe's have 1 second delay between laying it down and causing the dmg.

I know it is annoying not getting any dmg out, but that is more situational I suppose. If you are in the middle of a fray and getting beaten on, using mortar is a little silly because they are targeting you, or a knockback of some kind is sure to happen soon. If you are off to the side and cast it, and someone happens to be targeting you and interrupts you, that is just good play from their side I guess.

I suppose the difference to me between the aoe 'issue' and the knockback is that the aoe is purely for dmg, and is a channel by definition and description. it is meant to be able to be interrupted. The knockback is instant cast and provides utility and survivability, yet as an instant, it can be interrupted. That is bad design to me.

But those classes have distance closers instead. They are designed to stay up close and personal, so KB's make no sense.

Thanks for the info on the talented stuff though. helps to know. I think the issue for me is less about distance and everything, and more about having my CD used up without actually having knocked anyone back, even though it is an instant ability. I have been stunned, flashbanged, choked and knocked back all in the middle of doing the animation, of an instant cast ability. That is a little silly as an implementation really. You are not meant to be able to interrupt an instant cast ability after it has been activated, that is why it is called instant cast.

@ to the poster 2 above regarding mortar. I see where you are coming from with that, but all of the channeled aoe's have 1 second delay between laying it down and causing the dmg.

I know it is annoying not getting any dmg out, but that is more situational I suppose. If you are in the middle of a fray and getting beaten on, using mortar is a little silly because they are targeting you, or a knockback of some kind is sure to happen soon. If you are off to the side and cast it, and someone happens to be targeting you and interrupts you, that is just good play from their side I guess.

I suppose the difference to me between the aoe 'issue' and the knockback is that the aoe is purely for dmg, and is a channel by definition and description. it is meant to be able to be interrupted. The knockback is instant cast and provides utility and survivability, yet as an instant, it can be interrupted. That is bad design to me.

The irony is that on the boards for those classes, they complain about KB nullifying their closer. When a marauder leaps, even SI can interrupt the leaps with a well timed KB. The leap is an instant ability is interruptable because of the traveling animation. They are likely slowed or immobilized and the CD of their instant closer has been wasted. (I take it your are referring to Stealth as a "closer" which can be interrupted just by people looking at you...)

Speaking of Channeled abilities, there is a prominent example of a Channeled ability that does damage instantaneously at the start of the channel and on subsequent 'ticks', which is Force Lightning. (though the Jedi mirror ability apparently a split-second pause).

FWIW, the SI AoE KB, Overload, has a minimal amount of maneuverability even in mid-air. I have seen some interesting maneuvering with it.

The irony is that on the boards for those classes, they complain about KB nullifying their closer. When a marauder leaps, even SI can interrupt the leaps with a well timed KB. The leap is an instant ability is interruptable because of the traveling animation. They are likely slowed or immobilized and the CD of their instant closer has been wasted. (I take it your are referring to Stealth as a "closer" which can be interrupted just by people looking at you...)

 

Speaking of Channeled abilities, there is a prominent example of a Channeled ability that does damage instantaneously at the start of the channel and on subsequent 'ticks', which is Force Lightning. (though the Jedi mirror ability apparently a split-second pause).

 

FWIW, the SI AoE KB, Overload, has a minimal amount of maneuverability even in mid-air. I have seen some interesting maneuvering with it.

Really? When I try to stop a marauder from leaping, he's just in my face instead and I'm interrupted. Also, if they blow their gap closer on the initial approach, then they deserve what they get when they get knocked back. It's quite easy to save those for the inevitable knockback.

There's a long enough delay, that when I'm playing my jedi knight, I can force choke/force stasis someone mid air. I see the animation coming, hit F real quick. Did it to the same sorc three times in a row. The animation also gives me time to move so that I'm not pushed off of a ramp/into acid.

On the positive side, I have been able to move in the air while I'm jumping as to make the kb in a slightly different place to adjust for players movement.