""Get better at PvP, make some friends (forever alone) and queue with them. This is how you counter premade teams.""

This argument keeps coming up and its not a valid argument. I do premades but only when I have alot of time to spare. Usually I'm just jumping on for 30 mins and then moving on to something else, or leveling an alt. We all have different life circumstances and you fail to recognise that fact. If I have 2-4 hours to kill of course I'll be in a premade, but its the time constraints and not the lack of "friends" that puts me in pugs a majority of the time.

...

1) Implement some kind of Item Level for all gear (PvP AND PvE) (This can be used to better match players in PvP because matchmaking through Valor would be ridiculous.)

...

Problem with matching by gear is that the heroes will inevitably queue in pve gear and switch to pvp gear once the wz starts. that's why i believe matching by valor would be better, albeit far from perfect. If someone comes up with a better system i'm all for it

Problem with matching by gear is that the heroes will inevitably queue in pve gear and switch to pvp gear once the wz starts. that's why i believe matching by valor would be better, albeit far from perfect. If someone comes up with a better system i'm all for it

Matching by medals earned may work better then matching by valor , if any matching at all. Valor just means one played a lot of warzones, and/or exploited Ilum when they could, Medals reflects a bit more on how one have performed.

Medals earned divided by matches played could generate a number used for matchmaking.

Or:

Premade -> Goes to ranked queue (need to remove the 8 ppl requirement)

Solo -> Normal queue.

(I wonder how many doing premade now would switch to solo if they risk a bit of challenge )

Or:

Cross faction queue , doesn't fully solve the "problem", but may help against faction imbalanced servers.

Matching by medals earned may work better then matching by valor , if any matching at all. Valor just means one played a lot of warzones, and/or exploited Ilum when they could, Medals reflects a bit more on how one have performed.

Medals earned divided by matches played could generate a number used for matchmaking.

 

Or:

Premade -> Goes to ranked queue (need to remove the 8 ppl requirement)

Solo -> Normal queue.

(I wonder how many doing premade now would switch to solo if they risk a bit of challenge )

 

Or:

Cross faction queue , doesn't fully solve the "problem", but may help against faction imbalanced servers.

Medals earned /games played is a pretty good idea actually. I don't like splitting the queues just because i don't think it will fix the problem, which is good, experienced, geared players on one side and not on the other.

I've gotten stomped while grouped with a 4 man premade several times, and i've been in pure pugs where only very good premades would have had a chance (first one happens way more often unfortunately). I believe the majority of premades are not that much better than some random pugs, it's just a few friends queueing together, without any cares about composition, tactics etc. Then there's the serious pvp guilds that can't get a ranked match for whatever reason, and they utterly dominate, because they are really really good, which makes for very unfun games.

Also, i'd be surprised if the good premades wouldn't rather go against a pug full of geared warlords or whatever then a bunch of recruits.

Problem with matching by gear is that the heroes will inevitably queue in pve gear and switch to pvp gear once the wz starts. that's why i believe matching by valor would be better, albeit far from perfect. If someone comes up with a better system i'm all for it

But then you get someone like me, who PvPd HARD before 1.2 and a little lately... I have Valor Rank 75, and Im in Recruit/Champ/Cent/and some BM gear. So Valor wouldn't be a good way either. They could make it so everything gave you a "rating" so that everything was LIKE RWZs... and mix THAT with Gear and Valor. IDK... But I dont think Valor would work...

this game is trying to self destruct with the really strange ideas flowing from BW.

that's what happens when devs listen to players

dunno if i commented here yet, probably did... either way....

This is an mmo, we like to group with human beings and not NPCs...Want to solo pvp?....go be kobe bryant. He likes to be a ball hog. Or just go play skyrim.

dunno if i commented here yet, probably did... either way....

 

This is an mmo, we like to group with human beings and not NPCs...Want to solo pvp?....go be kobe bryant. He likes to be a ball hog. Or just go play skyrim.

Hey dummy, guess what happens when I queue solo... I get grouped with 7 other real human beings! AMAZING!

Take your tired and hackneyed "argument" and seriously stuff it. Its nonsense. How about, if you like to play with premades, go play against other premades? See that works too, only it speaks volumes about you that you'd rather pugstomp than face any actual challenge.

You know what, when I group with 7 strangers in a warzone match, I'm being MORE social than you in your little 4 man clique that never even communicates with the rest of your team. I'm meeting new people, making new friends, you know... doing the things you are "supposed" to do in an MMO. W t f do you do in your little guild group besides sit around, pug stomp, and make fun of "inferior" players? That's social? Sociopathic, maybe.

that's what happens when devs listen to players

And I dont even know w t f this guy is talking about, because the devs havent done a da mn thing the players have suggested towards pvp balance or anything else.

When you find yourself alone, helpless and in need of assistance in a Warzone match up against a premade, do what I do - charge in like a crazy-person, die extremely quickly and treat is as free commendations, NEXT!

more like free comms for the premade, they gear up twice as fast and demoralize many new players from even queing up. If BW is trying to get more new folks to play this game the Premades and the CC is doing quite the opposite.

Hey dummy, guess what happens when I queue solo... I get grouped with 7 other real human beings! AMAZING!

 

first of all im no dummy. Just think its funny all of you han solos out there think the game should be catered to you and your solo practices. Some of us like partners... oh!!!!!

first of all im no dummy. Just think its funny all of you han solos out there think the game should be catered to you and your solo practices. Some of us like partners... oh!!!!!

Then go against other premades, why do you need to go against pugs, why? explain what is the need for a premade to face a pug other then pug stomping and shorter que times...if its such a problem then have premades v premades give double the comms. This is not a "why don't you find some ppl to group with? argument "

Why should a premade face a pug?

Then go against other premades, why do you need to go against pugs, why? explain what is the need for a premade to face a pug other then pug stomping and shorter que times...if its such a problem then have premades v premades give double the comms. This is not a "why don't you find some ppl to group with? argument "

 

Why should a premade face a pug?

Buried in this ocean of 199 pages, there are a couple of small posts from 2 very brave and honest guys:

"The only reason for a premade to face a pug is for an easier and faster way to min/max your gear. Nothing else"

It takes about 7 or 8 extra pieces of the same gloves or boots to really min/max gear your toon, and if you repeat this process for several alts, then you know the real reason as to why this insane debate about why premades keep stomping pugs.

Every other arguments are nothing more than vain excuses to hide this.

first of all im no dummy. Just think its funny all of you han solos out there think the game should be catered to you and your solo practices. Some of us like partners... oh!!!!!

Wow, you are arrogant.

So instead of the game catering to the 99% of the player base, you believe that the game should cater to the 1%. You should get a job on Wall Street.

Random battles have their own charm. They are chaos.. and as the Joker would say "the thing about chaos.. it's fair,".

What you are REALLY afraid of is actually not having easy wins any more. Your fear comes out in your anger. You stand on a peak screaming how 99% of the player base should bend to your will,..and we are all just too stupid to see it.

No, we see it. We see you for what you are.

Grow up.

Anyone who defends Pre-mades is themselves running Pre-mades. The amount of obvious bias in this thread is insane.

There needs to be a system in place where it queues Pre-mades against Pre-mades.

Pre-mades in pub matches just promotes far too much Pub stomping. The balance in this game is so out of whack as it is without the added advantages of queueing with an organised group.

"Working as intended"

Is the standard answer to something they didn't even checked out. "Working as intended", i heard this since day one, and still have major patches changin' things that supposed to "Working as intended'. Strange.

I still haven't seen one intelligent post as to why premades "should" go against pugs. All i see are obvious premade ppl nerd raginging at solo quers that wanna take away their wtfpwn death squad matches and ez mode comms.

As a premade, why do you want to face non challenging pugs?

(besides longer que times, say there won't be longer que times)

As a premade, why do you want to face non challenging pugs?

 

(besides longer que times, say there won't be longer que times)

Cuz all wanna easy win and fun and enjoy of it

Anniversary post to celebrate the 200th page of this thread. I will try to explain one last time what's wrong with the current situation, trying to touch on all major points that I find problematic.

Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones? Really?

I always thought that the title was a tad misleading. It did not specifiy what kind of premades we were having a problem with or how they were ruining non-ranked warzones. While it does bring up a valid concern (imbalance in non-ranked PvP), I would hazard a guess that premades in and of themselves are just a contributing factor to this, and even then, not all premade groups actually "ruin" non-ranked warzones. What kind of premades are we talking about? Two friends playing together? four friends playing together? Four guild members from the server best group, in a carefully balanced group composition, all valor 90+, everyone decked out in EWH gear and blowing grenades left and right? They are all premades but I really don't think that we have a problem with the first two examples.

But then what would be a more appropriate title that was more accurately describing the problem in NWZs?

Imbalance and predetermined matches in non-ranked warzones.

Imbalance can come from many sources (gear, skill, faction, class, role etc.) but for some reason most people here seem to associate everything with premade groups. Probably because 4 min/maxed EWH geared players with carefully balanced roles are what everyone seems to remember the most but the problem seems to go deeper than that. What is the problem then? That matches are won and lost even before they begin, depending on group setup (class, role, gear) one group doesn't even have the slightest chance to win, no matter how hard they try or what they do. Of course, there are always some matches that go extremely bad and you have no chance of winning them but it shouldn't be the norm. Or turn it around, you shouldn't be able to win every match with effortless ease, when you find the most powerful/imbalanced team composition. The opposing team should at least have a chance to win. Rows of roflstomp matches are boring, both the inflictors and sufferers seem to agree on that point.

Okay, both groups stand at least a minimal chance to win, sounds good on paper. But how do we implement that?

The first step in the right direction would be a match-making system that actually takes into account a variety of factors, when trying to balance teams such as gear level, expertise, valor etc. Right now the system tries to assemble groups as fast as possible. Which means it gives a 4man premade to another 4man premade, because 4+4 is the fastest and shortest way to reach 8. I can confirm this personally, many times in same faction matches our 4man group was paired with another 4man group and we went up against 8 pugs from the same faction on the opposing side. It's baffling why the system would compound the issue this way, unless it is really trying to assemble a team of 8 the fastest way possible for fast queues. Needless to say, these matches are neither fun nor enjoyable for either side.

Anything less would not address imbalance properly. The other end of the spectrum is also present (altough less prevalent) but it nevertheless exists. When I queued once with three inexperienced recruit-geared friends, we went up against PuGs from various server best Imperial guilds. Needless to say, we were quite horribly destroyed because we couldn't touch the opposing team due to differences in gear and skill.

So we all agree that some form of separation is required. But should the lines really be pugs vs premades? Should it be a hard split?

As demonstrated above, separating premades from pugs would not address the core of the issue, which is geared players vs ungeared players; experienced players vs inexperienced players; "bads" vs. "goods" etc. If you hard split the population, good, geared, experienced PuGs will continue to roflstomp "bad", inexperienced, ungeared PuGs. Of course, there would still be a way to get around the system and sync queue. Chances are with a hard split, the premade queue would go dead and we'd continue to see these exact same issues in the normal queue with anything less than intelligent match-making.

Not to mention that it will piss of a ton of people who really just want to play with their friends. I know from personal experience that most premades arent the cackling teams of supervillains who derive sadistic pleasure from obliterating the opposing team of recruits. Just four friends who like to play together in an MMO game.

But sometimes these premades happen to be very skillful, very much geared, stacking every concievable angle towards their chances of winning. Then we have a problem because of the lack of a match-making system means they are queued against people of lesser caliber and the stomping begins.

Do they have advantages? Yes. Do they have significant advantages? Yes. Can these advantages (gear, voice, team comp) determine the outcome of the match? Yes. The match-making system would queue these hardcore groups against each other.

So match-making is good but we still don't want these groups in non-ranked, right?

Right. These groups belong in ranked warzones. Unfortunately ranked warzones are dead 99% of the time because of the extreme entry barriers. Finding 8 geared, skilled people with the proper classes and roles is not something you can do spontaneously. PvE guilds are subjected to the same requirement if they want to do operations but at least if they manage to assemble 8 people, their opposition is guaranteed. The same cannot be said for PvP guilds as there is no guarantee that another guild will have assembled 8 people at the exact same time the first guild is queuing. This literally forces the first guild to do non-ranked warzones, even if they want harder challenge.

Ranked warzones, however, still occur occasionally on our server, if they are set up by a previous arrangement (but never, ever spontaneous, spur-of-the-moment warzones). What can this lead to?

A. Win trading. If there are two teams only, might as well do this. 50-50% win ratio and lots of ranked comms for both teams.

B. Goup A doesn't want to win trade because it's better than Group B and it is made clear in the first match. Then Group B stops queuing, forcing group A to go non-ranked in ranked setup.

C. Best case scenario, the groups trade people (if same faction) and try to set up fair groups. But since the player pool is extremely limited, they quickly learn each other's tactics, which results in stagnant, boring matches against the same people.

So, it's not a matter of not wanting to do ranked. It's a matter of not having access to like opposition. But what can give hardcore teams such hardcore opposition?

Cross-server queues. The cornerstone on any competitive PvP, something that even Blizzard understood back in 2004! Without cross-server queues, ranked warzones won't ever function properly, which means we'll be stuck in pre-season forever. If we want balanced matches, we have to start with cross-server queues. This is absolutely mandatory to fix PvP in this game. As long as we don't have cross-server queues, the state of PvP will not improve because it cannot improve.

We can't force serious premades *not* to queue in non-ranked. We have to give them an incentive not to want to. Lower the entry barrier to rated warzones, so that more premades can compete and for God's sake implement the feature that every single other MMO in existance has! Make ranked give out meaningful rewards (so that hardcore groups can show off their huge epeens) and bring those groups together in xserver matches!

But if even a measly player can understand the need for cross-server queues, why don't the devs of BW realize how important they are?

I'm sure they do. Unfortunately, they are having technical difficulties with modifying Hero Engine to support xserver queues. Other MMOs that use the hero engine have cross-server queues, so the reason why SWTOR's engine can't be modified has to be unique to this game. I'm sure they are kicking themselves in the nuts everyday for launching without this feature.

Whether they lack the know-how (which I doubt) or the funding/permission from their EA overlords (which is far more likely), cross-server queues are in the back barn now, which means that premades are here to stay in the non-ranked warzones. Unfortunately my predictions for the future of SWTOR PvP without cross-servers are very grim indeed.

So, when and how will Season 1 launch without cross-server queues?

I don't know. A PvP season would definitely draw 99% of the competitive premades out of the non-ranked queues but how can it be launched without cross-server queues? Sadly, I'm as clueless as you are because I've never heard of a PvP season without cross-server queues to match the server best groups against each other.

I hope they're not planning to launch Season 1 simultaneously on all servers. It would raise a myriad of problems: like what if one server has 8 qualifying groups but another just 2? What if groups on PvE and RP servers offer less competitive matches than groups on PvP servers? And would we have like 16 winners for Season 1? Ridiculous.

No one cares who the best group on each server is. We already know that. What all competitive groups want to know, what they are all eager to fight for, is to determine who the best in the entire game is! If you gave them a shot at that, they would clear out from non-ranked queues faster than rednecks from a Texas salad bar.

Okay but let's admit it, PvP has some other major issues than premades vs pugs. Season 1 cannot launch until they fix those as well.

Naturally. I won't go into class balance, resolve, CC, bubblestun etc here. They also need to be addressed if they want successful, competitive PvP that is fun for all.

Are you trying to say that pure PuG vs PuG matches should not be allowed to happen at all, then?

No. Despite what everyone seems to say, I enjoy (and have always enjoyed) the randomness of pure PuG vs PuG warzones. Makes for a refreshing experience even if you're sometimes grouped with bads.

I simply believe that it shouldn't happen in warzones. I would give a small 4v4 Arena for pure PuG vs PuG matches. And a same small 4v4 Arena for pure Premade vs Premade matches.

So what does that leave us with, then? Can you highlight the most important points?

- Non-ranked warzones: groups are created using an intelligent match-making algorithm; pugs are matched against pugs and premades against premades, when possible; groups are formed around roughly the same item level, valor and expertise values, which ensures that even in PuGs Vs Premades matches, the PuGs are around the same gear, valor, expertise level as the premades, giving them a real chance of winning; cross-server queues ensure they have like opposition

- Ranked warzones: entry barrier lowered, so that more premades can join; rewards and incentives are increased, so that premades actually want to compete in ranked; cross-server queues ensure they have like opposition

- Arenas: strictly PuGs vs PuGs and Premades vs Premades for those who want to enjoy the randomness (or want to eliminate the randomness totally) of warzones; would be a good training ground for learning and refining PvP mechanics; new players could learn here the basics; groups here could practice coherency for warzones

- Season 1: gives a goal for premades to work for; the goal is: the best PvP group in the game; unique rewards given out only to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd finishers. Possibly real money compensation.

- Miscellanous: class rebalancing, stun and resolve fixed

Okay, these are all good recommendations but are they actually feasible to implement?

I honestly cannot come up with a reason why they shouldn't be. We're not asking for more than other (possibly every other) MMO games have already implemented (in most cases actually launched with). The only reason I can come up with why BW wouldn't be able to do these simple (yet so meaningful) changes is that EA doesn't trust them with money anymore after blowing 200 million dollars on a game that lost a million players in the first year and was forced to go F2P after 11 months. In that case.....I really don't know what to say.

But I hope for the best.

I can understand that come with your perfect overgeared premade group and crush wz pug's can be fun once, but ... all day every day? There's no challenge, just farming of comms.

I use to play alone or in groups of two, each wz I fight until the end, and never quit even if we start loosing and my rating of wins is usually one vs three.

But I recognize that when the same super premade crushes us again and again without choice to play, it is disheartening and ended up changing to an alt and and devote myself to something else (ops, wz's 10-49 or leveling) I do not mind losing warzones, what I do not like is not having option to fight because the overwhelming advantage of the opponent, (when it happens a lot of times in a row) because I know that good pug's win vs good premades, pugs where people know what to do, but requires a lot of luck.

Even so, I love pvp and keep playing and fighting, but this is the situation.

Sorry for my English, i'm learning it.

Anniversary post to celebrate the 200th page of this thread. I will try to explain one last time what's wrong with the current situation, trying to touch on all major points that I find problematic.

 

Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones? Really?

 

I always thought that the title was a tad misleading. It did not specifiy what kind of premades we were having a problem with or how they were ruining non-ranked warzones. While it does bring up a valid concern (imbalance in non-ranked PvP), I would hazard a guess that premades in and of themselves are just a contributing factor to this, and even then, not all premade groups actually "ruin" non-ranked warzones. What kind of premades are we talking about? Two friends playing together? four friends playing together? Four guild members from the server best group, in a carefully balanced group composition, all valor 90+, everyone decked out in EWH gear and blowing grenades left and right? They are all premades but I really don't think that we have a problem with the first two examples.

 

But then what would be a more appropriate title that was more accurately describing the problem in NWZs?

 

Imbalance and predetermined matches in non-ranked warzones.

 

Imbalance can come from many sources (gear, skill, faction, class, role etc.) but for some reason most people here seem to associate everything with premade groups. Probably because 4 min/maxed EWH geared players with carefully balanced roles are what everyone seems to remember the most but the problem seems to go deeper than that. What is the problem then? That matches are won and lost even before they begin, depending on group setup (class, role, gear) one group doesn't even have the slightest chance to win, no matter how hard they try or what they do. Of course, there are always some matches that go extremely bad and you have no chance of winning them but it shouldn't be the norm. Or turn it around, you shouldn't be able to win every match with effortless ease, when you find the most powerful/imbalanced team composition. The opposing team should at least have a chance to win. Rows of roflstomp matches are boring, both the inflictors and sufferers seem to agree on that point.

 

Okay, both groups stand at least a minimal chance to win, sounds good on paper. But how do we implement that?

 

The first step in the right direction would be a match-making system that actually takes into account a variety of factors, when trying to balance teams such as gear level, expertise, valor etc. Right now the system tries to assemble groups as fast as possible. Which means it gives a 4man premade to another 4man premade, because 4+4 is the fastest and shortest way to reach 8. I can confirm this personally, many times in same faction matches our 4man group was paired with another 4man group and we went up against 8 pugs from the same faction on the opposing side. It's baffling why the system would compound the issue this way, unless it is really trying to assemble a team of 8 the fastest way possible for fast queues. Needless to say, these matches are neither fun nor enjoyable for either side.

 

Anything less would not address imbalance properly. The other end of the spectrum is also present (altough less prevalent) but it nevertheless exists. When I queued once with three inexperienced recruit-geared friends, we went up against PuGs from various server best Imperial guilds. Needless to say, we were quite horribly destroyed because we couldn't touch the opposing team due to differences in gear and skill.

 

So we all agree that some form of separation is required. But should the lines really be pugs vs premades? Should it be a hard split?

 

As demonstrated above, separating premades from pugs would not address the core of the issue, which is geared players vs ungeared players; experienced players vs inexperienced players; "bads" vs. "goods" etc. If you hard split the population, good, geared, experienced PuGs will continue to roflstomp "bad", inexperienced, ungeared PuGs. Of course, there would still be a way to get around the system and sync queue. Chances are with a hard split, the premade queue would go dead and we'd continue to see these exact same issues in the normal queue with anything less than intelligent match-making.

 

Not to mention that it will piss of a ton of people who really just want to play with their friends. I know from personal experience that most premades arent the cackling teams of supervillains who derive sadistic pleasure from obliterating the opposing team of recruits. Just four friends who like to play together in an MMO game.

 

But sometimes these premades happen to be very skillful, very much geared, stacking every concievable angle towards their chances of winning. Then we have a problem because of the lack of a match-making system means they are queued against people of lesser caliber and the stomping begins.

 

Do they have advantages? Yes. Do they have significant advantages? Yes. Can these advantages (gear, voice, team comp) determine the outcome of the match? Yes. The match-making system would queue these hardcore groups against each other.

 

So match-making is good but we still don't want these groups in non-ranked, right?

 

Right. These groups belong in ranked warzones. Unfortunately ranked warzones are dead 99% of the time because of the extreme entry barriers. Finding 8 geared, skilled people with the proper classes and roles is not something you can do spontaneously. PvE guilds are subjected to the same requirement if they want to do operations but at least if they manage to assemble 8 people, their opposition is guaranteed. The same cannot be said for PvP guilds as there is no guarantee that another guild will have assembled 8 people at the exact same time the first guild is queuing. This literally forces the first guild to do non-ranked warzones, even if they want harder challenge.

 

Ranked warzones, however, still occur occasionally on our server, if they are set up by a previous arrangement (but never, ever spontaneous, spur-of-the-moment warzones). What can this lead to?

 

A. Win trading. If there are two teams only, might as well do this. 50-50% win ratio and lots of ranked comms for both teams.

B. Goup A doesn't want to win trade because it's better than Group B and it is made clear in the first match. Then Group B stops queuing, forcing group A to go non-ranked in ranked setup.

C. Best case scenario, the groups trade people (if same faction) and try to set up fair groups. But since the player pool is extremely limited, they quickly learn each other's tactics, which results in stagnant, boring matches against the same people.

 

So, it's not a matter of not wanting to do ranked. It's a matter of not having access to like opposition. But what can give hardcore teams such hardcore opposition?

 

Cross-server queues. The cornerstone on any competitive PvP, something that even Blizzard understood back in 2004! Without cross-server queues, ranked warzones won't ever function properly, which means we'll be stuck in pre-season forever. If we want balanced matches, we have to start with cross-server queues. This is absolutely mandatory to fix PvP in this game. As long as we don't have cross-server queues, the state of PvP will not improve because it cannot improve.

 

We can't force serious premades *not* to queue in non-ranked. We have to give them an incentive not to want to. Lower the entry barrier to rated warzones, so that more premades can compete and for God's sake implement the feature that every single other MMO in existance has! Make ranked give out meaningful rewards (so that hardcore groups can show off their huge epeens) and bring those groups together in xserver matches!

 

But if even a measly player can understand the need for cross-server queues, why don't the devs of BW realize how important they are?

 

I'm sure they do. Unfortunately, they are having technical difficulties with modifying Hero Engine to support xserver queues. Other MMOs that use the hero engine have cross-server queues, so the reason why SWTOR's engine can't be modified has to be unique to this game. I'm sure they are kicking themselves in the nuts everyday for launching without this feature.

 

Whether they lack the know-how (which I doubt) or the funding/permission from their EA overlords (which is far more likely), cross-server queues are in the back barn now, which means that premades are here to stay in the non-ranked warzones. Unfortunately my predictions for the future of SWTOR PvP without cross-servers are very grim indeed.

 

So, when and how will Season 1 launch without cross-server queues?

 

I don't know. A PvP season would definitely draw 99% of the competitive premades out of the non-ranked queues but how can it be launched without cross-server queues? Sadly, I'm as clueless as you are because I've never heard of a PvP season without cross-server queues to match the server best groups against each other.

 

I hope they're not planning to launch Season 1 simultaneously on all servers. It would raise a myriad of problems: like what if one server has 8 qualifying groups but another just 2? What if groups on PvE and RP servers offer less competitive matches than groups on PvP servers? And would we have like 16 winners for Season 1? Ridiculous.

 

No one cares who the best group on each server is. We already know that. What all competitive groups want to know, what they are all eager to fight for, is to determine who the best in the entire game is! If you gave them a shot at that, they would clear out from non-ranked queues faster than rednecks from a Texas salad bar.

 

Okay but let's admit it, PvP has some other major issues than premades vs pugs. Season 1 cannot launch until they fix those as well.

 

Naturally. I won't go into class balance, resolve, CC, bubblestun etc here. They also need to be addressed if they want successful, competitive PvP that is fun for all.

 

Are you trying to say that pure PuG vs PuG matches should not be allowed to happen at all, then?

 

No. Despite what everyone seems to say, I enjoy (and have always enjoyed) the randomness of pure PuG vs PuG warzones. Makes for a refreshing experience even if you're sometimes grouped with bads.

 

I simply believe that it shouldn't happen in warzones. I would give a small 4v4 Arena for pure PuG vs PuG matches. And a same small 4v4 Arena for pure Premade vs Premade matches.

 

So what does that leave us with, then? Can you highlight the most important points?

 

- Non-ranked warzones: groups are created using an intelligent match-making algorithm; pugs are matched against pugs and premades against premades, when possible; groups are formed around roughly the same item level, valor and expertise values, which ensures that even in PuGs Vs Premades matches, the PuGs are around the same gear, valor, expertise level as the premades, giving them a real chance of winning; cross-server queues ensure they have like opposition

 

- Ranked warzones: entry barrier lowered, so that more premades can join; rewards and incentives are increased, so that premades actually want to compete in ranked; cross-server queues ensure they have like opposition

 

- Arenas: strictly PuGs vs PuGs and Premades vs Premades for those who want to enjoy the randomness (or want to eliminate the randomness totally) of warzones; would be a good training ground for learning and refining PvP mechanics; new players could learn here the basics; groups here could practice coherency for warzones

 

- Season 1: gives a goal for premades to work for; the goal is: the best PvP group in the game; unique rewards given out only to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd finishers. Possibly real money compensation.

 

- Miscellanous: class rebalancing, stun and resolve fixed

 

Okay, these are all good recommendations but are they actually feasible to implement?

 

I honestly cannot come up with a reason why they shouldn't be. We're not asking for more than other (possibly every other) MMO games have already implemented (in most cases actually launched with). The only reason I can come up with why BW wouldn't be able to do these simple (yet so meaningful) changes is that EA doesn't trust them with money anymore after blowing 200 million dollars on a game that lost a million players in the first year and was forced to go F2P after 11 months. In that case.....I really don't know what to say.

 

But I hope for the best.

Im a PUGer, your a Premader, and if you look at my post on pg 197, I think we are saying basically the same thing... Lets see if your post gets as ignored/flamed as mine did. I don't think some of the people here ACTUALLY want meaningful change. Its like Racism but not... Groupism?

I can understand that come with your perfect overgeared premade group and crush wz pug's can be fun once, but ... all day every day? There's no challenge, just farming of comms.

Farming PUGs is probably the only place these PreMade cowards can feel a sense of control in their lives.

And just as they are, in many of their willfully ignorant responses in this thread -- where they pretend not to know things we all know are true, in all their response deflections and distractions and excuses -- the coward PreMader simply ignores the truth when they farm PUGs... so they can pretend that they're good. They lie to themselves then, they lie to themselves in this thread.

It's just that they're being called out for it here.

It's simple. They're scared of facing other groups. That's the whole of this thread.