I don't define back-loaded dps as "burst"...since it requires you to stay alive that much longer and gives them that much more survival time to recover and for someone to top them off. Merc dps has super good burst but it is also back loaded ....and the precise reason it sucks is because it is so backloaded so the other side can deal with it more readily.

 

There is just no way we can all agree on everything so can we just all agree that madness is not the best recommended spec to run for rateds. And that the deception tree doesn't suck lol.

 

In other news, a full sin tank in tanking gear is painful to kill with a deception spec , especially if they keep parrying low slash: discuss

Last I checked, it doesnt really matter when the damage is done (though asap is preferable) if its fast enough healers cant heal through it, which is why AP sucks, yet deception is good in pvp

I killed 2 sintanks in a 2v1 just now, and no I didn't have low slash parried they died fast. very fast. and they both backpeddal + force speeded to try and escape me...

I was dueling a really good friend of mine last night on his sin tank. 27k HP in pvp gear with tons of def stats. I had 3 low slashes parried and roughly 1/3 of all my white hits went into nothing. He just had so much HP to burst through that shock, deathfield and discharge wasn't enough lol

Last I checked, it doesnt really matter when the damage is done (though asap is preferable) if its fast enough healers cant heal through it, which is why AP sucks, yet deception is good in pvp

Are you agreeing with me in a round about kind of way lolz....

I was dueling a really good friend of mine last night on his sin tank. 27k HP in pvp gear with tons of def stats. I had 3 low slashes parried and roughly 1/3 of all my white hits went into nothing. He just had so much HP to burst through that shock, deathfield and discharge wasn't enough lol

That is the problem with deception over madness against any tank. Madness isn't backloaded as much as people think. It just requires you to open from range. The other benefit is that while you are dotting you are not giving away the target of your spike, while adding pressure to the opposing healers.

The survival can be a problem, but critical dots should be giving you health I like the conversation, but there is to much absolutes being talked about.

I am not a fan of VS. It is to force hunger and while it can make shock better I find the rotation to be harder to do in pvp than taking DF.

Not one single Deception player needs VS, picking it up is just a waste.

 

By picking up death field instead you gain an extra big hitting area attack with a 30m range and with the extra point you get 25% extra crit bonus damage to thrash. Not to mention you are much less predictable, and having death field helps a lot to interupt caps and being able to kite. By getting VS you get...30% shock increase

 

I have played this spec since launch and I don't even know how you can defend VS besides liking the animation. You have either not tried the hybrid or you are just being stubborn and purist.

The only purpose Deception has, is to kill quickly. To do ANYTHING else at all, you shouldn't even be in that spec in the first place. So yeah, VS > DF.

The only purpose Deception has, is to kill quickly. To do ANYTHING else at all, you shouldn't even be in that spec in the first place. So yeah, VS > DF.

Im going to assume you haven't done the hyrbid. It's much easier to kill faster with DF, but ok, have fun with VS because nobody is stopping you from playing an inferior spec.

The only purpose Deception has, is to kill quickly. To do ANYTHING else at all, you shouldn't even be in that spec in the first place. So yeah, VS > DF.

I tire of explaining why full Deception is inferior to people like you, those who would rather bash hybrids on the forums than actually try them in game.

First off, the VS animation tells any competent player exactly what you are going to be doing for the rest of the wz. I see that animation, I tab to you and throw out a taunt. I can tab right back to my original target if I want and just like that, all within a GCD, I have screwed over your damage at no cost to myself. You weren't targeting me, I don't have to be targeting you, if I see that animation, your burst is history. If I'm on voice comms with guildies where such details can be stated quickly, I'll tell them you are Deception, and now they all know what you're up to as well. And we will deal with you throughout the rest of the game with little difficulty.

Now, 0/27/14 does not make one immune to this of course. Eventually people will see surging charge active, as Waka said, but this actually requires someone to have you targeted so that we can see your buffs up. If I'm running 0/27/14, and nobody has me targeted, they will not see the burst coming. Even if they saw me in surging charge before hand, they will inevitably know burst is coming at some point, but will never be able to pinpoint exactly when. VS lets me see an incoming burst phase from across the map, no targeting required.

Secondly, your statement that full Deception kills faster than 0/27/14 is complete BS.

0/27/14 Rotation: Spike (optional)>DF>Discharge>Shock>Maul (almost always procced by now)>w/e is applicable (usually Assassinate, as they are below 30% by now.) With Recklessness up, you can assume that basically all of those crit, in which case any non-tank is dead, in 5 GCD's.

2/31/8 Rotation: Spike (optional)>VS>VS>Shock>Discharge>Maul (usually procced). Now they may or may not be in execute range, as this rotation DESPITE BEING A FULL GCD LONGER, does not do as much damage as the 0/27/14 rotation. So now you will have to spend at least one, likely more GCD's finishing them off. So 0/27/14 gets the job done faster.

The reliance of Deception on VS means that its burst is backloaded. Not to the same extent as Madness of course, but still enough that it can be easily dealt with, as described above. 0/27/14 gets all its damage out right away, no setup, no backload, just bang bang dead. Go actually try the spec out and see that I'm right before blindly defending things that you have no credibility arguing about.

Rankor I agree with everything you said.

I just wanted to point out if you're taunting me you're not taunting the smash monkey doing 5k aoes. That is all

Edit: To the OP.

Madness will always pull higher numbers on the scoreboard since it has an aoe and is a dot spec.

And just lol @ madness having more suvivability, you should probably use blackout more.

Just hit full elite war hero on my sin today and my conclusion is deception seriously sucks.

 

Comparing it to madness the damage with deception just cant keep up, when creeping terror, discharge and crushing darkness are running, voltaic slash shock and discharge can't keep up.

 

People might say decep has more burst ? Where ? My shock hits for 1.9k non crit and discharge 2.3k then i have nothing as voltaic slash is beyond useless compared to a fully specced thrash.

 

I'm not hating on decep as this is the build i want as i find the play style better but just cant leave madness as the damage and survivability is much much better.

 

Anyone else have any luck with deception ?

Madness is so good at pvp that 90% of the time your 3 dots are going to be dispeled. Also Madness have ZERO survivavility. I'm sorry but the self healing of this build wont help you at all.

Deception have a possibility of 24 sec of 25% dmg reduction plus eutropic field for a 3% damage reduction AND a passive 30% AoE damage reduction

Madness burst is...4k death field IF LUCKY. usualy its more like 3.5k + shock for what? 4k? lets say 4.5k

Deception have Discharge and shock discharge can easily hit for 6.2k on a geared player.Shock will usualy hit for 5.5k.

Also the mobility of Deception is better with a lower CD on force speed and if specced you are faster stealthed and harder to detect. Oh and maul might hit 30% harder too.

The only advantage Madness have over Deception is more ranged abilities.

Also if you want to play madness play it properly,go roll a sorc lol. Deception is far better than madness in pvp because you can solo kill a good healer, Madness cant because of... CLEANSE.

I dont want to be mean but if you think madness is better than Deception in pvp you are not a good player or your server skill cap is very very V.E.R.Y low. And if you burst more in madness...you are obviously not playing deception properly. Or...are you using the madness pvp gear? cant recall the name but its the one for dps that is not stalker lol

Haven't been on my assassin in a long time, I think the last time i PVP'd on him there was still Champion armor....

 

What spec would yall suggest for playing in Recruit Mk 2 gear?

go 23/1/17 or maybe 31/0/10 or 23/3/15

go 23/1/17 or maybe 31/0/10 or 23/3/15

Guard should start on your melee dps and then swapped to your healer and you should be taunting continuously. If your doing it guard swapping is the most important thing you'll do to help win a warzone.

If you going to pure tank I recommend looking at 23/17/1. The survivability of the spec with the aoe dmg reduction and on demand 25% dmg reduction is tremendously useful if you tank. I think its better than 31/0/10 by a mile for pvp tanking. Its a great spec if you want to run the ball in huttball. Your a virtual Adrian Peterson in 23/17/1 for huttball.