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Deception / Infiltration Set Bonuses and Tactical Items

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Deception / Infiltration Set Bonuses and Tactical Items
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EricMusco's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 09:54 AM | #1 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Hey folks,

Following our Onslaught announcement at SW Celebration we want to start diving into feedback right away. I want to use this thread to talk about Tactical Item effects and Set Bonuses for Deception and Infiltration Disciplines. Our goal for set bonuses is to introduce new bonuses, and potentially with even new sizes so you can mix and match. Tactical Items are a new item type that is meant to be build defining and most likely to directly impact how an ability works. For inspiration here are two completely made up Chain Lightning Examples:
  1. Chain Lightning now does all of its total damage to only one target, and no longer jumps.
  2. Chain Lightning now jumps even more and does additional damage to secondary targets.

That would allow you to take a standard ability and allow it to be modified to fit your playstyle. Please use this thread to brainstorm ideas and make as many recommendations as you would like! For context:
  • Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  • Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.
Set bonuses, tacticals, both, let us know what you would like to see. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

Eric Musco | Community Manager
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HaoZhao's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 12:26 PM | #2
I think the ability that most needs attention is Spike. If you're not a tank doing PVP, this ability just isn't useful. It takes up a spot on your ability tray but it's hardly ever used. Let's fix that. Some examples of potential tactical item upgrades:

•When used from stealth, Spike stuns for 4 seconds instead of 2. (The stealth requirement is there, so tanks don't abuse it)

•When used from stealth, Spike no longer stuns and instead does triple damage and is an automatic critical hit (this allows spike to become part of your opener and contribute to your burst)

•When used from stealth, Spike makes you immune to stuns for 6 seconds.

•Spike can be used while stunned (stealth requirement is removed while stunned)

Just please find a way to make this ability more useful or just remove it. You can give tanks a tree upgrade that attaches a 2 second stun to some other ability. In its current form, Spike feels like the most filler ability in the game.

levitating's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 12:49 PM | #3
I definitely think spike needs more attention. Perhaps a tactical item that allows spike to be used out of stealth? Or allows it to proc from another ability like phantom stride does assassinate?

mickym's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 02:06 PM | #4
I agree that spike may not be used as much as other abilities, but I wouldn't call it useless. (So please don't remove it lol) There are times where it can come in useful ex: (In a ranked game you can use it to get a kill on a player which is low HP when you have no stuns left using it to be able to damage through CD's like evasion and get the kill).

However, It would definitely be good if the game encouraged you to open with spike more with lets say a 20% damage reduction buff for 6 secs. I was about to say stun immunity, but having more stun immunity's in the game would just be more annoying and considering you can avoid some stuns with shroud, it may be too much.

In regards to the set bonus I'd be happy if you centred it around force damage for the recklessness discharge and ball lightning crits, to be honest I already like the set bonus in the game at the moment mainly because of the auto-crit on maul makes for a really good high burst opener.

little bit offtopic:
(Since you're adding more depth to the game bring back crushing darkness for deception)
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Emperor_Cain's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 02:48 PM | #5
Just throwing some ideas at the wall here:
  • Something that allows Ball lightning to not trigger a second attack, but just deliver extra damage (so it doesn't use up charges of recklessness).
  • Make Maul do full damage regardless of positioning.
  • Have low slash also apply a heal debuff (similar to what marauders and snipers have).
  • An Item that removes the extra damage from overcharge saber, but gives it a better heal (or vice versa)

bahudson's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 03:57 PM | #6
Make Maul do full damage with Duplicity/Infiltration Tactics regardless of positioning.

Banderal's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 04:11 PM | #7
What do you folks think of something that lets us change the attack and/or damage type? For example, say a force-to-energy datacron tactical item which absorbs what was about to be your discharge force/internal attack, and instead it blasts out a concussive ranged/energy attack. Something like that?

Or changes our defensives in a similar way... making Shroud grant immune to melee/ranged instead of force/tech or whatever?

I dunno, seems like it would be a nice surprise in PvP, for those people who know what everything does already. I have no idea if that would affect pve at all (or if it needs to - since we can pick our tactical items to suit "how we play", right?)

Slippery When'wet, FistFullOfCandy - SF

Zurules's Avatar

04.16.2019 , 07:51 PM | #8
I feel like one of the core strengths of shadows has been the amount of control we have over our opponents. So for me i'd like to try to accentuate that strength with these suggestions.

Tactical item: Make your whirlwind into a sort of vortex. All enemy players within 8m of the target will be sucked and displaced to the same location (or 1m from the center) of the original target and creates a zone(8M around the initial target) that will slow all enemy players by like 30% for the duration of the whirlwind. The slow zone ends early if the initial target who was whirlwinded takes any damage thus ending the cc as it is now. Anyone who was not sucked in by the initial vorxtex(not within 8m of original target) but walks into the zone, will be slowed too.

Set bonus (I'm hoping you will add set bonus slots to other pieces of guys like mainhand/offhand to give us even more options to be creative): IF this is the case and say the maximum set bonus would be 9 instead of 7. I'd suggest the max/best set bonus to make all players be rooted for 2 seconds after the effects of any kind of cc is finished: this would include: spike(2s), force stun(4s), lift(8s), mind maze(sap/8s) and for the infiltration spec include low slash(4s). This would not include grenades.
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ultimarb's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 01:34 AM | #9
Tactical Item Ideas. I would like to see some variations which can be a light variant of hybrid specs. but i think every advantage of an tactical item should come with a disadvantage in combination. Also i would advocate for 2 slots for those items. One offensive and one deffenisve

Some Offensive Tactical Items
  • Item 1
  • Positive: Change Lacerate to a 3 second channel dealing way more damage (like death from above)
    You could use some of those nice whirl channel animations done by some npc with doubleblades
  • Negative: 25-30 Second Cooldown. Not usabale on the run

Item 2
  • Positive: Make Spike a Proc usable out of stealth applying a bleeding dot on the target.
    initial damage should be the same as voltaic slash
  • Negative: no stun from spike anymore
    this would aid my intention to bring back some light hybrid specs

Otherwise i would support the idea of ball lightning (please get rid of its animation and go back to shocks) to be more consinstent and not rely on rng. (this rng is the reason why deception has such an high empirical variance...
or maul dealing same damage in front

Defensive Tactical Item
  • Item 1 (Could be used by all sin/shadow specs)
    Since ou guys kinda like those temporary quickbars (gods operation) why not use it for that
  • Positive: Add a trigger to temporary bar which changes the damage absorbed by shroud from yellow damage to white and vice versa. You could cange the color of shroud from white to red to signal opponents in pvp which one is active.
  • Negative: the normal effect of shroud is not active while the trigger is on.

and please bring back stun damage redcution.
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PrometheanDeath's Avatar

04.17.2019 , 07:32 AM | #10
I think sin, especially deception is in the best position for these tactical item changes, as the item wont cause a rotational rework, but still affect the priority and change overall style of the spec. Here are a few ideas that I've come up with along with a few others. Going off of the post it does say tactical items should affect advanced class/discipline abilities, so I guess to have items that don't cross specs, so I won't be advocating for the spike changes.

-Critical hits with voltaic slash reduce the CD of Reaping strike by 1.5 seconds. Using your weaker filler allows for more stronger filler procs in the simplest sense.
-Ball lightning's 2nd hit also can trigger surging charge, if it can use my recklessness stack on a weaker hit, think it should also be able to build a stack like the first.
-Low Slash increases movement speed by 100% for 4 seconds after use. More of a mobility perk, for those who run away and targets that are far allowing you to regain uptime or even LoS away.
-Reaping strike builds a stack of recklessness. Whether or not this "activates" recklessness to instantly build a 3 stack discharge, which it would be nice, it would change priority to make reaping act like stride, but as a physical attack.