ah..so perhaps they need to clarify? no...bioware needs to clean up their act..plain and simple. ensure all things are according to what they are describing for all characters - male/female...it was sloppy on their part, but I do want to say I am extremely happy they are looking into fixing the issues. its sad that it has taken a beast of horrid ranting to make them sit up and notice though..

Have you seen the Aspiring Knight top? It is different on a lady than a male.

Why is there not a limit to how many posts a person can make within a certain timeframe? I read post after post, with pretty much the same information every post coming from this guy. We know, we know, we've heard it a thousand times by now, you have a vaild point, please stop stating it. Your filling this thread and trolling it on purpose to piss people off, with garbage.

 

There is a large population of people who bought these items based on the preview, who had no clue they were going to change it. This is fact, I'm not trying to argue here. The devs have acknoweledged they have wronged these people and are going to fix it.

 

"Organize a decent post, and let it marinate a bit, come back, maybe do it again. Don't just try to get your name up on the Most Frequent Poster award."

Ah, So you do not like what I have to say so I should be censored? If you do not like what I have to say, there is an Ignore button. I do not care for some of the things you say...But I don't ask for you to be censored.

Have you seen the Aspiring Knight top? It is different on a lady than a male.

then I would think Bioware needs to add into their descriptions of the items.."apparel will look different on males vs females"..or some such nonsense..or make them non gender specific...I would have loved to get the investigator's set but the preview of it is nasty on specific characters of mine..

so..again..bioware needs to tidy up... that's all I am saying, or trying to say. showing one thing, buying another, preview screens not representing what they are, or cc packs not being what they are advertised, or preview screen is right but changed later..come on..its silly to get this far in a thread over it just to get the designers to Q&A their work before it goes live...which should have been done .."a long...long..time ago..in a galaxy far..far..away"..

then I would think Bioware needs to add into their descriptions of the items.."apparel will look different on males vs females"..or some such nonsense..or make them non gender specific...I would have loved to get the investigator's set but the preview of it is nasty on specific characters of mine..

 

so..again..bioware needs to tidy up... that's all I am saying, or trying to say. showing one thing, buying another, preview screens not representing what they are, or cc packs not being what they are advertised, or preview screen is right but changed later..come on..its silly to get this far in a thread over it just to get the designers to Q&A their work before it goes live...which should have been done .."a long...long..time ago..in a galaxy far..far..away"..

But some people like the fact...that the armor has a different look for male and female.

Ah yes, shows you how much I know about these forums. Magically clicked on a person's name, and hit ignore, suddenly each page got much,much shorter.

And knowing is half the battle.

All these people arguing that the Phantom set now looks as advertised, where does it say that the picture on the Cartel market is even the Phantom set? That model is wearing a belt, but there is no Phantom belt.

I just don't understand. You buy a pack, it comes with Phantom gear, you see the icon, you preview it and then assume it's supposed to look different...

The Phantom set even still has the same old item icon!

The fact that this thread is over 100 pages long now and the original thread complaining about the Phantom set was only 12 pages long goes some way to showing just how many people bought the Phantom items from the GTN or wherever because of how it looked in game (you know, the icon and preview!) versus the few people that jumped to conclusions about one picture that may or may not have been the Phantom set in the first place.

If anything I hope this thread finally makes BioWare realise that a large part of their player base actually has taste and doesn't want every piece or armour in the game to have needless bells and whistles on.

All these people arguing that the Phantom set now looks as advertised, where does it say that the picture on the Cartel market is even the Phantom set? That model is wearing a belt, but there is no Phantom belt.

 

I just don't understand. You buy a pack, it comes with Phantom gear, you see the icon, you preview it and then assume it's supposed to look different...

 

The Phantom set even still has the same old item icon!

 

The fact that this thread is over 100 pages long now and the original thread complaining about the Phantom set was only 12 pages long goes some way to showing just how many people bought the Phantom items from the GTN or wherever because of how it looked in game (you know, the icon and preview!) versus the few people that jumped to conclusions about one picture that may or may not have been the Phantom set in the first place.

 

If anything I hope this thread finally makes BioWare realise that a large part of their player base actually has taste and doesn't want every piece or armour in the game to have needless bells and whistles on.

One of the developers already stated that they're come up with a solution to appease both groups. The whining is no longer needed. Also, if people hate the new look so much, why is it still selling for 500K?

There is a large population of people who bought these items based on the preview, who had no clue they were going to change it. This is fact, I'm not trying to argue here. The devs have acknoweledged they have wronged these people and are going to fix it.

I dunno. The basic point of the thread was that the gear suddenly changed and people didn't like it.

Then others pointed out that it was a posted that it was a bug and they actually wanted it changed.

The people who liked the 'old/incorrect' versions pointed out that why they bought the gear based on the preview. The people who like the 'new/correct' version are the ones who presumably follow the forums and/or went to the Devs when the screenshots didn't match the items.

Both lines of thought are reasonable. I came here to add my voice, not because I was affected, but I had friends in game who didn't like the change.

I have no vested interest in having the new versions of the gear remain, but it doesn't mean I'll ignore what those users are saying; the people who want the new/corrected versions are being fair about it and just rolling back the changes isn't right.

Not listening to the people who were complaining that they liked the old versions isn't right either - although you obviously need to apply some basic common sense. (How many users are affected? Is what they're asking for break anything with play balancing? Are they just looking for free stuff?)

I'm not going to stake myself on one side then couch it on citing my interpretations of 'what is advertising', 'is a preview an advertisement or not', 'does whatever method constitute a legal obligation', 'things posted on the official forums that you do not read are your fault', or 'the preview is really what everyone will use'. It misses the point too, that you're essentially talking about customer service here, and we're not in a court of law.

What happens is at the discretion of the service provider (Bioware). They gain or lose customers based on their actions, and that's their motivation - they don't care about the various iterations of the above arguments. They changed something, it was ultimately a cosmetic non-gameplay fix, they feel could have been communicated better, people are unhappy. The only real points in this thread that Bioware is looking at is: "Some are unhappy and want the old version back" and "People who wanted it corrected want it to stay corrected."

Some people have a need for one side to be definitively right and the other side to be definitively wrong, and they won't feel satisfied otherwise.

One of the developers already stated that they're come up with a solution to appease both groups. The whining is no longer needed. Also, if people hate the new look so much, why is it still selling for 500K?

I'm not whining, but there seems to be a small group of people within this thread offended by the fact that BioWare are going to offer a solution to both parties. I know, crazy right; it's like they are ashamed they have bad taste.

I'm not whining, but there seems to be a small group of people within this thread offended by the fact that BioWare are going to offer a solution to both parties. I know, crazy right; it's like they are ashamed they have bad taste.

I didn't see anyone who thought that BioWare offering a solution to both parties as being offended.

Hey, guys --

 

We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved.

 

We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon.

 

We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again.

 

In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so.

 

Damion Schubert

Lead Designer, SWTOR

This issue doesnt effect me at all, but i wanted to say im impressed and delighted to see such a honest and straightforward post from you devs. Keep that up in all areas!

As a pvper since launch i've been disappointed several times by the management of this game, and lost quite a bit of faith, but this just won you back a chunk of my trust!

Hey, guys --

 

We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters...

 

were this true, you'd have implemented appearance slots (or similar) on day 1 of launch.

second, you'd take genuine interest in customer feedback and respond accordingly... not as you see fit.

Quite obviously by this debacle regarding spymaster and phantom gear appearances, you have genuine, unbridled opinions, wants and desires of what players... your customers would like to see in game. Question is, will you respond in kind and address the situation accordingly, making every attempt to do what's right by meeting the needs and desires of the customers with regard to this issue? The solution is elementary at best: offer two versions of each type and allow the players to choose which one they want. Some of us like the minimalist version of each. others prefer the gaudy versions. It would take less than no effort to offer both to those who have the items already. I say this because both designs already exist. it's just a matter of renaming one of the sets to accommodate the alternate appearance.

the failure / refusal to implement appearance slots though is just bad planning. nothing more. nothing less. If it's something you intend to do in the future, Great! it should have been done day 1 though. there's really no excuse for it except, "I wanted it this way and if you dont like it, go play something else. it's my ball and i will take it if you dont want to play by my rules." Every MMO i've been involved with from 1999 to the present has offered some way of TRULY customizing the appearance of your gear without sacrificing for that look.. unlike swtor. I've foregone set bonuses in order to maintain the look i have created for my toons. Rather than go with the garbage look of the sets just to get the bonuses. I get compliments EVERY DAY on my toon's look. EQ1, a game which is almost a decade and a half old even offered the option to reskin your gear so you make it look how you want. EQ2 and Rift have appearance slots. Aion allows for item reskinning. I've not infected my computer with the digital HIV that is wow, so i couldnt tell you what it offers.

Bottomline, you've heard LOUD AND CLEAR what the players want. the question is, will you genuinely do something in response or just blow it off like so many other things? At one point on patch day, you specifically stated that the phantom and spymaster gear would be returned to its previous state. im guessing that was a lie (or however you want to spin it so it doesn't sound so bad as to call it a lie), because that statement is no longer to be found.

the ball is in your "caring" court DamionSchubert.

As a pvper since launch i've been disappointed several times by the management of this game, and lost quite a bit of faith, but this just won you back a chunk of my trust!

Wow. That's... that's unusual. Usually PvPers go all "rarrr, why'd you do something for these guys but not us?". Which is understandable but also gets old. Hat off to you sir. Don't see too many people being happy on others' behalf here, or being gracious in general.

were this true, you'd have implemented appearance slots (or similar) on day 1 of launch.

Nope, they made most gear moddable so they don't need appearance slots and make the appearance of your character more involving than "dropping an item I don't use into an apperance slot"

They made a decision on this a long time ago, and they won't implement appearance slots (the worst cop-out in gear customization ever designed for MMO's) just because a very small group of people will constantly keep whining about it.

I personally applaud this game for adding moddable gear and trying something different in this game.

Hey, guys --

 

We care a lot about the fact that you care about the appearances of your characters. In fact, the Mod system is my baby, largely because it allows players to customize their appearance to your liking. We have another, similar, one of my babies coming in the near future, which will allow even greater customization (you guys may have seen me hinted about it in recent interviews). Short form: this is real important to me, and we're not happy that we've created a situation that makes people unhappy. We didn't think through the ramifications of the bugfix that we've made, and we're acutely aware of the financial angle (cartel coins as well as in-game credits on the GTN) involved.

 

We are still discussing potential fixes to the issue -- and there will be fixes -- but there are ramifications to all fixes. Players should keep in mind that previously, we had players who were upset in the other direction. We have a couple of directions that we can go, but we need to explore a couple of things, and regardless, it is not a fix that can happen instantaneously. I do think we can get something in a patch very soon.

 

We are pretty sure we can avoid a solution that forces players to spend additional cartel coins, and I'm not interested in letting a situation linger that leaves the player's faith in what we are offering on the cartel market in a reduced state. It is incredibly important to me, and the rest of the SW:TOR team, that players have a high degree of confidence in the market as a whole, and how we deal with issues like this. This has been a learning experience for us, and won't happen again.

 

In short: we'll fix this. Give us a little time to do so.

 

Damion Schubert

Lead Designer, SWTOR

This post feels honest. It does not feel like "PR crap". A PR statement would never say "We didn't think through the ramifications..." I like honest communication from developers. So Thank you Damion Schubert for the update on this issue..

This top now looks sooo good THANK YOU Bioware for this change i now attually look like a Sith rather than a tree!

All those that want a cat suit... go play hello kitty online, you will fit right in!

This top now looks sooo good THANK YOU Bioware for this change i now attually look like a Sith rather than a tree!

 

All those that want a cat suit... go play hello kitty online, you will fit right in!

People have different tastes. No need to insult them.

People have different tastes. No need to insult them.

I had to read that post a few times at first. I don't think it was meant to be insulting. I think it was a an honest(ly poor) attempt at humor. A straight up "cat" means kitty type thing.

//wish a reply to a reply retained the original quote...

Im sith, I'm just making them stronger... Give in to your hatred give in to the darkside!

Noooooooooooo!

Do you realize what you just did?

You provided an RP excuse for forum trolls!!!

Dear god, the horror... the horror *cries tears of blood*

Ah, So you do not like what I have to say so I should be censored? If you do not like what I have to say, there is an Ignore button. I do not care for some of the things you say...But I don't ask for you to be censored.

You're responding like a uninformed little child. That's not at all what he said. If you have to put words in someone's mouth in order to get upset at something, your'e trying too hard.

Stop it.

One of the developers already stated that they're come up with a solution to appease both groups. The whining is no longer needed. Also, if people hate the new look so much, why is it still selling for 500K?

Because it isn't? On The Ebon hawk server they aren't selling. Period. Not even at 300k.